The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:09 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:And it's not even as simple as saying it's all the owners fault, much as you all want to think it is - is that actually a bike path that you're riding on? Why the hell is there a bike path going through an off-leash area? That's the approach that you should be taking - asking the council about this.

That is actually disturbingly common along some shared paths in Melbourne. But there is a rider to it in the council rules - despite it being an off-lead park, leads are required anywhere within 5m of a shared path.

So this dog-walker is acting in contravention of rules, period.
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by BNA » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:12 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:12 pm

Percrime wrote:In what alternative universe do you live where the use of reasonable force against that dog would not be self defence?


Someone was advocating breaking the dogs jaw. Is that reasonable force for a nip?
The dog should have been under control, it was following its instinct to chase. It is the owners fault for allowing that behaviour.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:16 pm

Time for a deep breath and a return to normal programming methinks...

I was a dumb cyclist yesterday, early jump through a red on the corner of Spencer and LaTrobe. Sheer stoopid inattention saved by the good fortune of it being on the all red phase. :oops:
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby LinzOC » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:17 pm

il padrone wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:And it's not even as simple as saying it's all the owners fault, much as you all want to think it is - is that actually a bike path that you're riding on? Why the hell is there a bike path going through an off-leash area? That's the approach that you should be taking - asking the council about this.

That is actually disturbingly common along some shared paths in Melbourne. But there is a rider to it in the council rules - despite it being an off-lead park, leads are required anywhere within 5m of a shared path.

So this dog-walker is acting in contravention of rules, period.


In QLD and the NT a dog must still be controlled in an off-leash dog path. So if it doesn't come you can get fined (the rangers in Upper Kedron would give an owner three attempts; thank goodness....) as it's not under control.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:40 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Percrime wrote:In what alternative universe do you live where the use of reasonable force against that dog would not be self defence?


Someone was advocating breaking the dogs jaw. Is that reasonable force for a nip?
The dog should have been under control, it was following its instinct to chase. It is the owners fault for allowing that behaviour.


Shooting it might be reasonable force for the threat it posed. Hell to me it looks like a pit pull. Who is to say it couldn't have crashed him... and then ripped his throat out.

Mate if you want to cop a pit bull taking its first bite.. and call it a nip.. fine.. its your life and if it ends as dog droppings its no skin off my nose. Your dog takes a bite out of me.. and its going to the vet.. if its lucky. My life matters to me anyway. (and a few others) If your dog accosts me.. it faces the same risk of my defending myself successfully as you would.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby tubby74 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:53 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:Here's another way to look at it - if you don't want to be accosted by dogs off leashes, don't ride through an off leash dog park.


it's far from uncommon. I've stated this before when this topic has come up but the cooks river path in sydney used to be awful for dogs chasing bikes. Councils did good work, build fanced play areas with all sorts of obstacles and tunnels for the dogs. Everyone wins, people are safe from sort of sometimes under control dogs, and dogs get a fun area to play.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:54 pm

If its a pit bull then a couple of puncture marks are not the result of the dog trying to inflict damage.
The fact remains the fault lies with the owner and kudos to the poster for recognising this and confronting the owner.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:01 pm

Good to see obvious dog-haters making assumptions too. That dog looks nothing like a pitbull.
And if it was an angry pitbull, you wouldn't be here whinging on a forum about it.

You're fear-mongering - there is nothing about this dog that even resembles a pitbull :roll:

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:04 pm

Mulger bill wrote:I was a dumb cyclist yesterday, early jump through a red on the corner of Spencer and LaTrobe. Sheer stoopid inattention saved by the good fortune of it being on the all red phase. :oops:

Anyone in particular you were racing, or just "the clock" ? :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:10 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
You're fear-mongering - there is nothing about this dog that even resembles a pitbull :roll:

Some people are watching too much Today Tonight.


Fear mongering and false bravado as a fear response.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:13 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:Good to see obvious dog-haters making assumptions too. That dog looks nothing like a pitbull.
And if it was an angry pitbull, you wouldn't be here whinging on a forum about it.

You're fear-mongering - there is nothing about this dog that even resembles a pitbull :roll:

Some people are watching too much Today Tonight.


You dont get it mate do you? It does not matter that you know tinkerbell was giving some passerby a love kiss... it matters that they were worried. Thats all the law cares about. Self defence has to be based on a reasonable fear. And you know what being scared of a dog that has bitten you. is ALWAYS going to be reasonable.

We aint your teething toys.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:23 pm

See my earlier response - if you don't want to ride near dogs, then don't.
Sometimes this is unavoidable, but in an unleashed dog park, its safe to assume that there'll be dogs here.

Fear does not defend self defence mate. I like this forum for the most part, but the fear mongering and the ridiculous and blatant misinformation to try and prove a point is ridiculous, and goes a long way to ruining this forum. Try learning the first thing about the law before saying that i can kick the !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! out of whoever jumps out from behind a bush and scares me.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I hope the cyclist that breaks a dogs jaw gets their ass handed to them by the owner and goes to jail for cruelty to animal cruelty. And I hope the judge laughs at the idiot who uses the "i can do whatever i want to defend myself because it scared me" defence.

About 5 pages ago I got told my post about kids jumping in front of me from 10 metres away was unwarranted because kids are unpredictable. And yet it's a completely different viewpoint where dogs are concerned. Apparently they're entirely predictable are they?

Percrime wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:Good to see obvious dog-haters making assumptions too. That dog looks nothing like a pitbull.
And if it was an angry pitbull, you wouldn't be here whinging on a forum about it.

You're fear-mongering - there is nothing about this dog that even resembles a pitbull :roll:

Some people are watching too much Today Tonight.


You dont get it mate do you? It does not matter that you know tinkerbell was giving some passerby a love kiss... it matters that they were worried. Thats all the law cares about. Self defence has to be based on a reasonable fear. And you know what being scared of a dog that has bitten you. is ALWAYS going to be reasonable.

We aint your teething toys.


Oh, and if the dog hasn't bitten you, you have no recourse.
If a dog has bitten you and you're able to keep riding, you have no recourse.
If a dog has bitten you and you fall off, it will likely run away - and you have no recourse.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:32 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:About 5 pages ago I got told my post about kids jumping in front of me from 10 metres away was unwarranted because kids are unpredictable. And yet it's a completely different viewpoint where dogs are concerned. Apparently they're entirely predictable are they?


dog owners obeying the law near shared paths are predictable - they are attached to the owners. kids will still wander. whenever I'm on a path with my daughter I keep her on my left and go single file behind her when necessary.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:36 am

fatdudeonabike wrote:See my earlier response - if you don't want to ride near dogs, then don't.
Sometimes this is unavoidable, but in an unleashed dog park, its safe to assume that there'll be dogs here.


Yep one of them between here and the city. On the only bike path. Maybe we need to get rid of unleashed dog parks. .

Actually the actions and fears of a reasonable person in the same situation are entirely the test of self defence. And a reasonable person would be afraid of a dog that had bitten them. Many.. many cops in the same situation have shot the dog dead and not one has been charged. About the owners... I dont care.. if he wanted the animal alive keeping it under control is his responsibility.. not as in fat dude world mine. Just last week was a story locally.. fido chewed on a cat, owner charged.. fido on death row.

But there is no point in continuing. I am conducting this conversation from the viewpoint.. i believe of a reasonable person who has been bitten... while trying to run away.. so leaving is not an option and all the evidence is his is about to get chewed up, you are conducting this conversation from the viewpoint of Fido,s owner.. "He would never hurt a fly, see.. he is perfectly safe, its just a little bite, harden up sunshine" Meh. We have no common ground. See I dont care what you know about Fido. I care about what I know. And from the evidence its that Fido is a net loss to the community. Admittedly so is his owner... but Fido is the immediate threat.

But good luck with that pressing charges thing.. its not even that you dont have Buckley's... its that the other person is likely to get annoyed and press them right back. And wind up owning your house. Thats reality mate. You actually dont have the right to discharge a dangerous weapon to the public danger. Regardless of if its an AR15 or Fido. Your only defences are that you did your best to have the animal under control (that reasonable person would have thought your actions reasonable test keeps jumping up doesn't it?) or that you had no knowledge the dog was potentially dangerous. (and Mr Reasonable Person looking at the video is the bloke who gets to decide.. Heh. Chances of a snoflake cat chased by an asbestos dog in Hell. Saying its hyperbole is crap If she sued for .. THere is a real risk here at least from the point of view of the guy being chased.

I,m done here.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby CatCanRide » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:21 am

Children are 10,000 times more important than dogs. So we need to take 10,000 more care when riding around children.
Dogs are dogs and should be under effective control by their owners or on a leash.

Personally I think that with just a little bit of discipline those dogs would probably be lovely dogs but they are unlikely to receive that discipline with that owner.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby warthog1 » Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:38 am

CatCanRide wrote:Children are 10,000 times more important than dogs. So we need to take 10,000 more care when riding around children.
Dogs are dogs and should be under effective control by their owners or on a leash.

Personally I think that with just a little bit of discipline those dogs would probably be lovely dogs but they are unlikely to receive that discipline with that owner.


I don't believe you can arbitrarily quantify importance like that. To many dog owners their dog may be as important to them as a child is to another. I don't seek to understate the importance of a child here, I'm just trying to emphasise how much some people love their dogs. Speaking as a parent and a dog lover by the way.
Guardians of children and animals have the responsibility to protect those in their care from harm and to prevent them from causing harm.
Advocating the killing of a dog for the abject failure of its owner, as has been mentioned here, is disgusting IMO.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:58 am

CatCanRide wrote:Dogs are dogs and should be under effective control by their owners or on a leash.

Personally I think that with just a little bit of discipline those dogs would probably be lovely dogs but they are unlikely to receive that discipline with that owner.


Agree with all of this, if you can't control your dog without a leash, keep it on the leash. Most dogs I've come across pretty much reflect the owner, good owner-good dog, bad owner-dangerous dog. Even the "media madness" breeds are friendly enough if they aren't raised as a substitute for their owners (typically male) inadequacies.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:07 am

find_bruce wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:I was a dumb cyclist yesterday, early jump through a red on the corner of Spencer and LaTrobe. Sheer stoopid inattention saved by the good fortune of it being on the all red phase. :oops:

Anyone in particular you were racing, or just "the clock" ? :)


The clock I s'pose :oops: I was doing Beach Rd-Fixed gear when I got a call from the GLW that me mother in law had been taken to Royal Melbourne. Jumped a train back to the city and was on me way up there without due care and attention. No excuses, just an explanation. If Plod had've pinged me I woulda been happy to wear it.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:53 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Agree with all of this, if you can't control your dog without a leash, keep it on the leash. Most dogs I've come across pretty much reflect the owner, good owner-good dog, bad owner-dangerous dog.


Yeah this is a fair point. I bet most people don't have too many problems with a teenager walking the family labrador for example.

It's the idiots that gravitate towards the fighting breeds, and then fail to discipline them, that are big concern.

Case in point is the owners in the video clip we've been discussing.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby KonaCommuter » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:00 pm

:lol:




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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:27 pm

I love the freezeframe at the end of that - the poor bird momentarily knocked senseless :D (I'm glad you told us that it was fine, it wouldnt have been so funny otherwise - I'm the type that will stop the car in traffic to let a bird get off the road).

A final word on the dog issue - the eventual resolution seems to have been what I was saying all along. Dont tar all dog owners, or all dogs with the same brush. Yes, some dog owners shouldnt have dogs, and they deserve your criticism. But don't say that all dogs and owners should be treated the same.


I gotta get a camera on my bike, I see some really funny things. Just this evening I was on a quick little ride - a guy speeds past me on a very nice road bike, he would've only been 18 or 19 I reckon. He gets about 50 metres in front of me, and coming the other way is a rather attractive female pedestrian.

Bloke rides past her, spins his head around to check the view from behind her... and runs straight off the path, onto the nature strip, and into a tree.

The girl didn't stop, but I did. He actually hit it at a pretty reasonable speed.

Anyway, he seemed fine. I asked him whether he was ok.

He said "did you see why I crashed?"

I said "yep" and chuckled a little bit.

He said "well, I'd better be alright, cos I never would've lived that down"

:D

It's one of the joys of riding a bike that I never imagined - you see some really funny stuff that you just dont see in a car.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Livetoride » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:14 am

KonaCommuter wrote::lol:





Glad the bird was ok, bloody clear image too, what camera do you have ..?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:13 am

KonaCommuter wrote::lol:






Those things have a war going against me, so I'm not going to shed any tears for this unlucky thing. :P That said, when their young get knocked from the nest and on the ground, I'm the type who'll look after them to make sure cats and other predators can't get the poor defenseless little things.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby KonaCommuter » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:46 pm

Livetoride wrote:Glad the bird was ok, bloody clear image too, what camera do you have ..?



It's not my video but the text says that he's using a GoPro but I don't know which one
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:08 pm

Saw this one on youtube when viewing another posted here:



What a moron. Glad there's no peds around at that time.
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