Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Timeonabike » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:40 pm

Hi folks,

Does anyone out there know what is going on with this crap they're building on Winterfold Rd?

There used to be a perfectly good bike lane on both sides, but since the building of a couple of roundabouts they've put in extra concrete and other obstructions designed to force the cyclist off the road and on to the footpath instead of going through a roundabout.

I vaguely remember seeing an article about it being cancelled or postponed due to a Freo councillor getting upset about it, but can't find the article again.

Either way, they looked like they'd stopped a while back, but now there's some green paint on some of the bits near the Stock road intersection, which suggest it's still going ahead.

Any clues?

Cheers

Time
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by BNA » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:45 pm

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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby just4tehhalibut » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:45 pm

There was an article in one of the local rags a few months back about members of the Fremantle Bicycle Users Group (BUG) complaining about it, even pics of them riding through the traffic squeeze points. Didn't hear anything since.
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Timeonabike » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:10 pm

Cheers Halibut,

I see that Scott Ludlam's bike black spot thingy has it on there a few times.

Time
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Dez » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:13 am

The green bike strips near the Stock Road lights are relatively new. They scream "Hey look cyclists, we made a special thing for you!", while distracting from the mess a few hundred metres up the hill.

If you have a look along Winterfold road there seems to be a number of markings on the road/bike lane where concrete structures will go in for what looks like parking bays. Why parking bays are needed there is beyond me. Does school traffic get that bad?

I think it is City of Cockburn who are responsible for it, which is a surprise as they are normally not too bad with these sorts of things.
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Timeonabike » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:38 pm

I agree Dez,

And if you're riding East, the traffic in the left lane converges directly on to the path after the Stock rd crossover.

I saw something on Freo council's website about the roundabout for the school, so I think it's one of theirs.

I know the markings you mention - they portend more of the same rubbish.

Still searching for the ninnies responsible...

Cheers

Time
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby wellington_street » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:53 pm

Not the best outcome for cyclists but cyclists are not the only road users and the roundabouts are obviously required from a traffic management and safety perspective. Confident cyclists can take the lane through them and less confident cyclists can use the path. What's the alternative?
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Timeonabike » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:06 pm

Hi Wellingtonst,

I completely agree re sharing the road, and with the idea about having a choice between leaving the road for the path or choosing the roundabout.
With the roundabout installation, it just seems like a lost opportunity to do better.
I've seen a good Dutch roundabout design on the forum somewhere, once I find and figure out how to link it I'll do so.

Cheers,

Time
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Timeonabike » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:40 pm

Here it is - thanks to il Padrone and Widmann...

http://blog.widmann.org.uk/wp-content/u ... dabout.jpg

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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:15 pm

If the roundabout in question is at the intersection of Letchford Street and Winterfold Road then it is a City of Fremantle project.

The City of Fremantle is installing a roundabout at the intersection of Letchford Street and Winterfold Road, Hilton to enable safer and easier traffic flows into and out of Seton Catholic College. The work will consist of constructing a new roundabout at the intersection of Letchford Street and Winterfold Road and some landscaping within the median strips and within the roundabout itself.

This is a state funded Blackspot Project.


Source: City of Fremantle

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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby redned » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:32 am

Timeonabike: I think the roundabout design is good and might work for Dutch drivers.
But if you look at how drivers handle big roundabouts now (eg the ones on Marmion Ave), I think many will steam through the ped crossing and just "not see" a cyclist in the cycle lane, despite being on the roundabout.
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby wellington_street » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:02 am

Timeonabike wrote:Here it is - thanks to il Padrone and Widmann...

http://blog.widmann.org.uk/wp-content/u ... dabout.jpg

Time


Don't get me wrong - that is definitely something we should be aiming for in Perth. But you're nuts if you think plonking this in random suburbia as a one off would be safer than the existing situation. It could never be introduced without millions of dollars worth of advertising and education for motorists and cyclists as it represents a drastic change from the current arrangement.

As redned said, given the SMIDSY culture (for lack of a better word) on the roads, it's unlikely to be safe for cyclists as the angle of observance for drivers is much worse. You'll probably also notice that cyclists in The Netherlands don't barrell through these in lycra at 35-45km/h - they travel at a more sedate, path-type speed.
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Dez » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:37 pm

In this case I don't see the roundabout as the big problem. It is the other 'traffic furniture', existing and proposed, that blocks what was a good bike lane and forces cyclists onto either the footpath or into the main traffic lane. It is disappointing as there are few east-west arteries south of the river that i would consider to be safe routes for cyclists.

I know the roundabout is a Freo development, but I thought i'd read somewhere that the islands were Cockburn. Anyway, i'm sure a quick email to both would get you an answer.
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby wellington_street » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:10 pm

Dez wrote:In this case I don't see the roundabout as the big problem. It is the other 'traffic furniture', existing and proposed, that blocks what was a good bike lane and forces cyclists onto either the footpath or into the main traffic lane.


I haven't ridden that street for a long time so I'm just going off the latest Nearmap photo (7/1/13) - there's a kerb build out that inexplicably blocks the westbound cycle lane about 150m east of the school roundabout. Why? I have no idea. I'm leaning towards advocating shooting of the person who designed that, I cannot fathom why the bike lane is blocked at this point.

It is disappointing as there are few east-west arteries south of the river that i would consider to be safe routes for cyclists.


Marmion and Forrest are probably the only two?
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Re: Winterfold Rd, Cooby / Hami Hill etc

Postby Timeonabike » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:09 pm

Cheers everyone,

I read a nice bunch of back and forth on another thread re roundabouts, so don't wanna go over all that again.

Reckon I'll start harrassing both Freo and Cockburn and see what they have to say, especially re the other random concrete parts.

Nuts? I haven't been called nuts in years. Must be doing something right.

Cheers,

Time
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