Should I make a complaint?

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby munga » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:54 pm

i would have probably cut his head off and fed it to my family for dinner.
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by BNA » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:56 pm

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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby munga » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:56 pm

or maybe i would have ridden around the front of the ute (if i thought i had plenty of time to do so) to the head of the queue and avoided both numptys driving in the bike lane.
maybe even given the ute driver a bit of the eye.
you know the look.
yeah.
that one.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby lump_a_charcoal » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:34 pm

Just call the courier company - get it of your chest.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby zero » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:27 pm

Why on earth were you fighting your way through that mess on the left side of obviously turning vehicles ? Thats a straight up defensive riding fail imo, and you can't possibly save yourself more than 1 or 2 seconds by advancing a car length - and its also rude when there is a perfectly good empty straight lane with no contention on the other side.

Since it sounds like you ride through there all the time, I also personally would NOT use that green paint unless there was such through traffic that the intersection was blocked by the queue of it. At other times of the day, its going to put you out of the traffic flow mid intersection, and appears to offer no exit on the other side of the intersection.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby RobertFrith » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:58 am

g-boaf wrote:The driver probably wouldn't have known where you intended to go

It's no more an excuse than SMIDSY. The ute is a contributor to the outcome here too. The driver has stopped over the line and in the bike box which doesn't help - the green box is supposed to put bikes ahead of motor vehicles. Crap driving all round.
I've had an issue with Direct Couriers too. Really don't want to offend any professional drivers here but ... actually no, won't go there :-)
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby sogood » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:48 am

RobertFrith wrote:...the green box is supposed to put bikes ahead of motor vehicles.

It's better to be alive than what's supposed to happen. Fact is, both motor drivers and cyclists break those "supposed" rules all the time. Take precautions accordingly when riding and driving. In any case, the way the lanes are marked, the turning vehicle there is entitled to sit across the green, no different to cyclists claiming a lane to avoid misunderstanding.
Last edited by sogood on Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby MN GLXR » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:24 am

Man up. Give him the bird and forget about it.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby Dan » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:29 am

Awesome advice. Or, don't "man up" (whatever that actually means), don't make offensive gestures towards the driver (however much in the wrong he was) and forget about it. Don't know if its a manly solution though.

o_O

edit: less sarcasm
Last edited by Dan on Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby RonK » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:46 am

munga wrote:or maybe i would have ridden around the front of the ute (if i thought i had plenty of time to do so) to the head of the queue and avoided both numptys driving in the bike lane.
maybe even given the ute driver a bit of the eye.
you know the look.
yeah.
that one.

Then I would have jumped on the ute's bonnet and smashed the windscreen. :roll: :) :) :)

Yeah, this is exactly how road rage incidents start.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby PB12IN » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:50 am

Can someone please tell me what the ute did wrong? Granted he could have gotten closer to the kerb to allow traffic (in the vehicle lane) to go strait ahead, but As far as I can see he did nothing wrong when it came to using the bike lane.

Shared bicycle lane for left turn

This arrangement is used at certain intersections to indicate a "shared" lane. As long as a motorist gives way to any cyclists on the "shared" lane, they are allowed to travel on part of a green bicycle lane for a short distance, in order to turn left at an upcoming intersection. The "Share bicycle lane for left turn" sign indicates the point where drivers are permitted to enter the bicycle lane to prepare for a left turn.

from http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/safety/queens ... rules.aspx

Yeh I get what the van did is wrong, personally I don't think it is worth complaining. No matter what you do this sort of person will always exist. they cut off bikes, cars and busses alike as they think they are more important and everyone should give way to them.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby Apple » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:06 pm

sogood wrote:Tough one. Given you were resting on the kerb and leaning left, it's easy to interpret you were intending to go left or making a stop. In future, stay in the centre of the bike lane or even into the motor lane and make your intention (going straight) absolutely clear. I would even make a hand signal to the driver behind. Ride defensive and ride big!


+ 1
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby hkgts » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:18 pm

Apple wrote:
sogood wrote:Tough one. Given you were resting on the kerb and leaning left, it's easy to interpret you were intending to go left or making a stop. In future, stay in the centre of the bike lane or even into the motor lane and make your intention (going straight) absolutely clear. I would even make a hand signal to the driver behind. Ride defensive and ride big!


+ 2


Don't bother making a complaint, at best, both driver and cyclist are 50% at blame.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby sumgy » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:20 pm

RobertFrith wrote:...the green box is supposed to put bikes ahead of motor vehicles.


Not so sure on that.
My understanding is that you can overtake a vehicle on its' left but you do not have right of way over a left turning vehicle.
I know in this circumstance it is not obvious that the courier vehicle is turning but in general you cannot overtake a left turning vehicle whether you are in a green box or not.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby Sayonara » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:46 pm

Mustang wrote:
Alistair wrote:You need to put yourself in front and to the right of the car indicating that it is turning left. It isn't rocket science. Winging won't achieve anything, and surely it would be common sense to avoid any situation that requires a courier to ever give way?

Even if the van was going straight ahead, waiting on the other side of the ute gives you much more control.

Just slip through the gap and put yourself in the straight ahead lane next time.

Ride in the gutter (around intersections & roundabouts) & you will be treated as such, as reported above take the lane & make your intention positive.


yup, exactly!
you need to ride bigger and claim a lane....forward and to the right in front of the ute for sure. On the green light you can then continue to move left back into the cycle lane after the light. You then have at least 1 car space buffer.

Plus, dude, read the road.....the van was on an angle....it was very clear to me that he was going left (even without an indicator...whatever, we have all done that I guess ). If you're chipping him for 'no indicator', then how were you placed to 'make your intentions clear' also?

We all drive too, but we're not mind-readers.......HTF was he going to know that you wanted to go strait ahead....seriously?
It's dangerous out there. Better placement and you'll be visible to all.....the worst you'll get is cages behind you a little peaved that you're initially slow off the mark...who cares! At least the see you!
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby clydesmcdale » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:19 pm

The only time I would have used that green paint is if I were turning left also. Cars hardly think about other cars, let alone a cyclist who is technically in the right being on their left side looking to go straight.

IME anything that differs from normal expected behaviour of other cars confounds them. If safe and practical I act like a car, claim the lane, ride in the correct lane and even make little brum-brum noises when I can.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby birdbrain » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:06 pm

The bike lane is a tad ridiculous IMO. Had I been going straight I would have taken the lane and sat behind the courier van. Even though he failed to indicate I note from the start of the video he is turned slightly left.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby hannos » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:55 pm

roobab wrote: You are clearly in the wrong.


Not as far as the NSW road rules are concerned...
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby sogood » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:09 pm

sumgy wrote:...in general you cannot overtake a left turning vehicle whether you are in a green box or not.

Is this a verifiable statement? I know that one is at fault to filter to the left of a left turning vehicle but not sure what the status is if there's a green cycle lane. Would be most interested in knowing. At the same time, one has to be practical when it comes to rules. Do what will keep oneself alive, not rules that should keep oneself alive.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby Apple » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:39 pm

Life is too short to worry about this, keep safe, be aware of your surroundings. At the end of the day you are on a bike. In my opinion it is best not to get angry, just make it clear where you are going and change lanes early or move up to the front, make eye contact with the driver and let him/her know that you are going straight ahead. These are everyday occurrences that cyclists deal with and we are vulnerable on two wheels and in lycra, so just let the car go head and make your intensions known to the big cars. Otherwise we just become angry people.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby Lukeyboy » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:24 pm

If it was motorsport related I'd call it a racing accident. Both parties are at fault. The guy in the ute didn't help out by blocking both lanes. If anything they should extend the stopping positon for cars futher back so a rider can overtake the stopped car and be at the front of the queue or atleast fill in that bit of extra road to the left with green paint. Waiting at the lights you were sort of indicating informally to go left and when you took off you were leaning/riding to the left of the lane. The driver could have then assumed that you were going left aswell. The van driver should also have waited until you made your position clear instead of overtaking you in the intersection.You could also have claimed the vehicle lane to the right of the ute, overtook the ute and claimed the bikelane or even just held back behind the van.

I'd say sit back. Put your feet up. Put on some good Pink Floyd. Grab a beer and an air guitar. And just forget about it.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby RobertFrith » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:54 am

Lukeyboy wrote:If it was motorsport related I'd call it a racing accident.

It's not motorsport related. It's a public road and you lot are making up excuses for crap driving.

Contributions to this thread fall into two categories; what's legal and what's practical.

Fair enough, it might be hard to get plod to act, but the law has plainly been broken. Sure, ride more defensively by all means, but why should we always compensate for other people's (drivers') laziness? Make a complaint to Direct Couriers. Make a difference.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby sogood » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:21 am

RobertFrith wrote:...but why should we always compensate for other people's (drivers') laziness? Make a complaint to Direct Couriers. Make a difference.

Why? Because a complaint will only carry weight if there's clear responsibility. In this case, there are ambiguities in the actions of both parties and a complaint will only generate animosity.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby sumgy » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:04 am

sogood wrote:
sumgy wrote:...in general you cannot overtake a left turning vehicle whether you are in a green box or not.

Is this a verifiable statement? I know that one is at fault to filter to the left of a left turning vehicle but not sure what the status is if there's a green cycle lane. Would be most interested in knowing. At the same time, one has to be practical when it comes to rules. Do what will keep oneself alive, not rules that should keep oneself alive.


http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/safety/queens ... eping-left
You must:
[*]not overtake another vehicle on the left if that vehicle is turning left and giving a left change of direction signal

Bicycles can overtake to the left of a vehicle unless:

[*]the vehicle is signalling to turn left
[*]it is unsafe to do so.


There is a separate topic about green boxes as you call them but this seems specific to crossing through the bike lane to get to a left turn lane.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby sumgy » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:11 am

Lukeyboy wrote:If it was motorsport related I'd call it a racing accident. Both parties are at fault. The guy in the ute didn't help out by blocking both lanes. If anything they should extend the stopping positon for cars futher back so a rider can overtake the stopped car and be at the front of the queue or atleast fill in that bit of extra road to the left with green paint. Waiting at the lights you were sort of indicating informally to go left and when you took off you were leaning/riding to the left of the lane. The driver could have then assumed that you were going left aswell. The van driver should also have waited until you made your position clear instead of overtaking you in the intersection.You could also have claimed the vehicle lane to the right of the ute, overtook the ute and claimed the bikelane or even just held back behind the van.

I'd say sit back. Put your feet up. Put on some good Pink Floyd. Grab a beer and an air guitar. And just forget about it.


The green lane is a shared space.
He has every right to "block" it.

Shared bicycle lane for left turn

This arrangement is used at certain intersections to indicate a "shared" lane. As long as a motorist gives way to any cyclists on the "shared" lane, they are allowed to travel on part of a green bicycle lane for a short distance, in order to turn left at an upcoming intersection. The "Share bicycle lane for left turn" sign indicates the point where drivers are permitted to enter the bicycle lane to prepare for a left turn.


To the OP, if it was me I would have taken a position to the right of that ute.
An example you may understand is at the intersection of Sandgate Road and Rode Road.
There is a bike lane there at the lights.
Absolutely no way I will wait in that bike lane if I catch the lights and want to go straight ahead.
Instead I will move to the right hand side of the turning lane and then go straight ahead with the traffic when the lights go green.
To sit in one of those green boxes with cars turning left around me is suicide.
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Re: Should I make a complaint?

Postby damhooligan » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:51 pm

Say What... thats what im thinking....

I read so many posts indicating the cyclist is wrong.
either fully or 50%.
What is wrong with you people ????

What is see is an idiot driver , in control of a van who is 100% wrong.
Not a little bit, but completely.
Ok, these things happen, but what concerns me even more is that we, the cyclists , the victims, are now starting to accept this kind of behaviour and putting the blame at our selfs...
what ??

I see confusing about green lanes,and bike lanes this is obviously problem number one.
Motor vehicles are also legally able to travel in a bike lane for up to 50m if they are entering or leaving the roads or getting ready to park (road rules 153 and 158).

For starters, the ute is stopped/parked inside the cycle lane, he is part of the problem!
the ute is not sharing the BIKE lane, but claiming it as his own, this is wrong.
Secondly, the vans was not indicating, so it is fair to assume, the van goes straight.
There was enough room between ute and van, meaning, the van has seen the cyclist !
Yet the van passes the cyclist, and forces him to go left.
In what universe is the cyclists wrong ??

Ok, granted, there are always things he could have done that would have helped him.
But I saw nothing that indicated he needed to.
He was in the green line, in clear sight of the van, waiting safely behind the turning ute.
The cyclist done nothing wrong !

I, as an experienced cyclist would have done the same thing, and would be angry as well.
This is clearly a case of the van being an ape.
Now to answer the question , should I make a complaint?
I think its worth calling the company, as he travels on roads often as part of the job.
making him a continuous problem.

On the other hand, be glad it didn't turned into an accident, and that you rode off without any harm done.
konacommuter, you done a good job avoiding an accident, kuddo's to you.
Just a shame you where forced to do so.
And even worse, that others think you done something wrong.


some rading thingo's.. :
http://dpti.sa.gov.au/newconnections/article?item=178
http://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/genera ... res/30287/
http://tbug.org.au/temp/road_rules_exerpt.pdf
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