The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby beauyboy » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:35 pm

I know how you feel I get the complusion to rip the things out of there ears so very often.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:28 pm

twizzle wrote:Airzound is now officially on the shopping list, I don't care if they crap themselves.


woohoo. another one for "dark side".

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:50 pm

twizzle wrote:Lost it with a ped today. He told me off for not ringing my bell before passing him. I unpolitely launched and told him that if he took his #%^**£ earphones out he would have £%#}[*^ heard me call "passing". I had a bad week at work, he picked the wrong time to set me off. But seriously, 90+% of them wouldn't hear a 747 up their bottoms these days due to earphones/headphones/smartphone usage, and to blame others for their own lack of awareness just does my head in. No, I don't have a bell, and when I used to have one it didn't work either. Airzound is now officially on the shopping list, I don't care if they crap themselves.


I only just noticed where you're located! Do you ever ride in or around Palmerston? Cos if so, I might have seen you!

It's probably not you, cos the dude that's nearly run me over twice doesn't even yell anything to me. (Since taking up cycling, I don't use ear phones on shared paths any more).

The bloke doing the Tour de Gungahlin doesn't have a bell either (nor is he even wearing a helmet sometimes). It makes me really, really mad.

A bell weighs nothing. A bell comes with your bike to meet Australian standards, and if it doesnt, the seller is obliged to provide you one for free. And if you forget, what are they, like a couple of bucks?

I realise that you called out for him - but get yourself that AZ dude, because in my view, rather than assuming how loud his music was or how inattentive he was, you should consider your own wrongdoing in riding a bike that doesn't meet Australian standards. There's a reason that a bell, and not a voice, is the requirement for the standard.

This is less about you, its more about this cyclist that doesn't care that he's in a heavily residential area, and that kids and animals use that path. So don't take too much offence.

But I've heard all the justifications - and there's no excuse for not having a bell. To not have a bell and to expect everyone else to use paths on your terms is arrogant and it lacks respect. (And if people want to use the "some road bikes aren't sold with bells", then firstly - see above, get them to give you one. Secondly, ride on the roads, not on shared paths.)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby DavidS » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:33 pm

I never use a bell when passing pedestrians on shared paths. It just makes them unpredictable. I used to, but too many peds would hear the bell and change their line, which way they moved was totally random. Through experience I don't use the bell as it causes more problems than it solves on a shared path. On the road to warn an about to jaywalk ped it is very useful, on a shared path it makes matters worse.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:40 pm

Yeah Twiz, get one of these from Velogear and still be ignored by the skullwired cretins... :roll:
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I got one to pad an order up to free shipping and hung it on my FG pathfighter. It gives my fingers something to do in the absence of shifters. :wink: It works a charm with normal polite humans and most animals if you give them a brrrriing about 20-30m back. With the skullwired, this might penetrate...
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I find the sound will stop most CBD redmanners in their tracks.


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby DavidS » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:06 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Yeah Twiz, get one of these from Velogear and still be ignored by the skullwired cretins... :roll:
Image

I got one to pad an order up to free shipping and hung it on my FG pathfighter. It gives my fingers something to do in the absence of shifters. :wink: It works a charm with normal polite humans and most animals if you give them a brrrriing about 20-30m back. With the skullwired, this might penetrate...
Shaun


What bell is that?

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:20 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:I realise that you called out for him - but get yourself that AZ dude, because in my view, rather than assuming how loud his music was or how inattentive he was, you should consider your own wrongdoing in riding a bike that doesn't meet Australian standards. There's a reason that a bell, and not a voice, is the requirement for the standard.


No, don't ride Palmerston much.

Now, just so you are clear on your argument, bicycles are required by the Australian Standards to be SOLD with a bell. Once out the door, that doesn't apply. And I build my bikes, so I don't get one in the box.

Riding a bicycle on a road under the Australian Road Rules, a bicycle is required to have a "bell, horn or similar warning device". Never having had the discussion with the police, I haven't tried the "yelling is my warning device" argument. I do NOT expect to get away with it.

The bells provided with bikes these days are proxy shite - the best bell I have ever had was from my 1980's Apollo II... and a few years back when I fitted it to the last complete bike I bought, I got abused by some deaf old bint who told me off because "You didn't ring your bell" when I flipping well had. She had to be deaf, but apparently that's MY problem.

Peds on phones, peds talking to other peds, peds with wires out their ears - they are all off in a different world. You can pick the aware ones, they hold up a hand or call "thanks" when I call "passing". The others jump, either when they hear me and don't expect it... or when they don't hear me and I pass. I'm still going to use my voice as the primary warning, it doesn't scare people as badly... but the in attentive are not going to like my next warning device.


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Howzat » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:38 pm

twizzle wrote:The bells provided with bikes these days are proxy shite

Yep. But can still find a good brass bell to complement the AirZound.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby merlin6014 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:47 am

I used to have a bell on my bike......






























when I was 12
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:13 am

fatdudeonabike wrote:[

But I've heard all the justifications - and there's no excuse for not having a bell. To not have a bell and to expect everyone else to use paths on your terms is arrogant and it lacks respect. (And if people want to use the "some road bikes aren't sold with bells", then firstly - see above, get them to give you one. Secondly, ride on the roads, not on shared paths.)


Hi fatdudeonabike,
I reckon its all in the interpretation of the law, My bell certainly gets the attention of the average ped with ear phones.... :lol:
It came with directions "bong against hard objects" I havent figured out what that means yet. :D

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:18 am

merlin6014 wrote:I used to have a bell on my bike......
when I was 12

i have a bell on (some of) my bikes. it's useful for riding shared paths. if i want more cred as a rider, i go and do more intervals or hills. no one's going to be impressed that you don't have a bell.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby queequeg » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:02 am

wellington_street wrote:Saw this one on youtube when viewing another posted here:



What a moron. Glad there's no peds around at that time.


I ride that path every day, but I come through around 6:30am and most people haven't even woken up yet.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby skull » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:10 am

wellington_street wrote:
What a moron. Glad there's no peds around at that time.



You know what I see from that video.

The camera rider and the other rider in yellow, riding too slow for the guy on the mountain bike. So he decides to pass, and the other 2 decide to be heroes up the pace to not let him pass easily.

It is obvious from the video that they both started to increase the pace once the mountain bike rider got beside them. Then wouldn't let him move in front. Their ego got in the way. All morons in that video.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:13 am

skull wrote:Then wouldn't let him move in front. Their ego got in the way. All morons in that video.

That was what I saw.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby merlin6014 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:28 pm

jules21 wrote:
merlin6014 wrote:I used to have a bell on my bike......
when I was 12

i have a bell on (some of) my bikes. it's useful for riding shared paths. if i want more cred as a rider, i go and do more intervals or hills. no one's going to be impressed that you don't have a bell.


Its all good, I'm only having a joke :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby merlin6014 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:29 pm

skull wrote:
wellington_street wrote:
What a moron. Glad there's no peds around at that time.



You know what I see from that video.

The camera rider and the other rider in yellow, riding too slow for the guy on the mountain bike. So he decides to pass, and the other 2 decide to be heroes up the pace to not let him pass easily.

It is obvious from the video that they both started to increase the pace once the mountain bike rider got beside them. Then wouldn't let him move in front. Their ego got in the way. All morons in that video.


Agreed
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:35 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
twizzle wrote:Lost it with a ped today. He told me off for not ringing my bell before passing him. I unpolitely launched and told him that if he took his #%^**£ earphones out he would have £%#}[*^ heard me call "passing". I had a bad week at work, he picked the wrong time to set me off. But seriously, 90+% of them wouldn't hear a 747 up their bottoms these days due to earphones/headphones/smartphone usage, and to blame others for their own lack of awareness just does my head in. No, I don't have a bell, and when I used to have one it didn't work either. Airzound is now officially on the shopping list, I don't care if they crap themselves.


I only just noticed where you're located! Do you ever ride in or around Palmerston? Cos if so, I might have seen you!

It's probably not you, cos the dude that's nearly run me over twice doesn't even yell anything to me. (Since taking up cycling, I don't use ear phones on shared paths any more).

The bloke doing the Tour de Gungahlin doesn't have a bell either (nor is he even wearing a helmet sometimes). It makes me really, really mad.

A bell weighs nothing. A bell comes with your bike to meet Australian standards, and if it doesnt, the seller is obliged to provide you one for free. And if you forget, what are they, like a couple of bucks?

I realise that you called out for him - but get yourself that AZ dude, because in my view, rather than assuming how loud his music was or how inattentive he was, you should consider your own wrongdoing in riding a bike that doesn't meet Australian standards. There's a reason that a bell, and not a voice, is the requirement for the standard.

This is less about you, its more about this cyclist that doesn't care that he's in a heavily residential area, and that kids and animals use that path. So don't take too much offence.

But I've heard all the justifications - and there's no excuse for not having a bell. To not have a bell and to expect everyone else to use paths on your terms is arrogant and it lacks respect. (And if people want to use the "some road bikes aren't sold with bells", then firstly - see above, get them to give you one. Secondly, ride on the roads, not on shared paths.)


Shrug. I rock a bell on my commuting bike, but I have zero faith in its effectiveness as a warning device. It's really there as a figleaf lest the police decide to take on the great harm being caused by bell-less cyclists :roll: . It happens every so often around my neck of the woods for some reason. My chances of being heard are no better than fifty-fifty and a frequent reaction is for the pingee to move in some random direction, which doesn't really help. In particular, old folk are shocking for not hearing bells and will like as not berate me for being a young whippersnapper or something as doing anything helpful like not take up the entire path while chatting about I don't quite know what. I ping seldom and then only when I'm pretty cocky I won't clean them up no matter what fool thing they do. Calling out is roughly as effective, maybe a little better. That's not saying much.

So I don't know about no excuse. I could strap a chocolate tea-kettle to the handlebars and get the same result, I reckon, only I'd have some chocolate to snack on. Sure, it's the law and the law is the law is the law, but I doubt it's a law that would really be missed.

Dealing with pedestrians is fine. Dealing with rude people is tiresome, so too stupid people, but that's life. Bells, IME, do not make it easier to deal with any of these groups.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby CatCanRide » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:27 pm

Bells are good, voice is good. I tend to use a combination of both as neither seem to be totally effective, but the most effective thing that I have found alerts peds to your presence is noisy brakes - although you can get some dirty looks when they think you are out of control.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:41 pm

I'm quite a slow beginner rider - I've done the Lake Burley Griffin loop in Canberra for the first time today.

I hope the people that say calling out is just as effective as bells are louder than the people calling out today - I had (I think) 4 people calling out to me... but if you're talking to the person you're riding with, or if you actually had to take some evasive action, none of the 4 voices I've heard calling today were of any use whatsoever.

On the flipside, I've belled quite a few joggers today - I realise this particular shared path is different, because cyclists, joggers and pedestrians all know to look out for each other, but the responses to my bell-ringing were always very polite. I couple of waves, a couple of thank yous...

I just dont get it. There's no street cred in not having a bell - there's even less street cred in knocking someone over because you thought your voice was effective when the limited experience I've had today suggests that it's nowhere near as effective. Three of the four people I'm talking about were lycra wearers, which is only significant because lycra-wearing tends to indicate to me a slightly more serious rider in most cases - these people should know better.

So on a busy shared path that I've ridden today, with many people apparently riding Giro d'LBG, it just makes no sense whatsoever to ride that path without a bell and to think your voice is anywhere near as effective.


On topic - a GoPro is officially on my shopping list. I just can't handle crazy cyclists doing 60km/hr trying to duck through gaps that aren't there between me on one side of the path and pedestrians coming the other way on the other side of the path. All I would've needed to do today was throw an elbow up and I could've hit 2 of them. Such was their lack of respect for other users of the path, I almost wish I had. They were clearly expecting everyone else to cater for whatever dick-measuring contest they were involved in - it was inconsiderate, and it was rude.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:53 pm

merlin6014 wrote:Its all good, I'm only having a joke :D

bells are no joking matter son :evil: :mrgreen:
fatdudeonabike wrote:On the flipside, I've belled quite a few joggers today - I realise this particular shared path is different, because cyclists, joggers and pedestrians all know to look out for each other, but the responses to my bell-ringing were always very polite. I couple of waves, a couple of thank yous...

joggers are usually good. they're part of the "fitness club". there are some pedestrians who just see you as the enemy though, being on a bike. you learn to ignore the crazy ones. or post them on YT :)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:08 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:...none of the 4 voices I've heard calling today were of any use whatsoever.


But you did-by your own admission- hear them. QED.

You have-again, by your own admission-limited experience. Why are you so unwilling to learn from those who have so much more? Jeez, I've been into this cycle commuting lurk since 1996 and I've still got shedloads to learn. From any and everybody who has knowledge I lack.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby merlin6014 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:16 pm

Where do you get one of those little old skool cycling horns that make the "di-do-di" noise (you know like the one on the iphone text tone aptly enough called "horn"). I would be proud to sport such a horn. :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:19 pm

merlin6014 wrote:Where do you get one of those little old skool cycling horns that make the "di-do-di" noise (you know like the one on the iphone text tone aptly enough called "horn"). I would be proud to sport such a horn. :D


This might come close...

Available at BigW for one.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:20 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:...none of the 4 voices I've heard calling today were of any use whatsoever.


But you did-by your own admission- hear them. QED.

You have-again, by your own admission-limited experience. Why are you so unwilling to learn from those who have so much more? Jeez, I've been into this cycle commuting lurk since 1996 and I've still got shedloads to learn. From any and everybody who has knowledge I lack.


And as I say, if I had've been talking to my friend, or if I'd actually needed to move over or anything, their voice would've been useless. If I'd been talking, I wouldnt have heard them, if I'd needed to do anything, I didn't have time.

And on your second point, I'm yet to hear a single good reason as to why having a bell on your bike is such a burden - so what am I supposed to be learning here? That I should remove my bell for the street cred when, in actuality, the only people who think this adds to street cred are douche bags? (And I thought I was doing this for fun, for exercise, and to beat the traffic - I didn't realise that image was supposed to be a consideration)

I don't need to learn that a voice is as effective as a bell, because quite simply - it's not. The road bike riders that are generally the ones that don't have a bell are travelling too fast for their voice to be of any use whatsoever.

If I'm travelling at 30km/hr and I bell someone, they can hear me from 50 metres. If they panic, I still have time to look after both of us. If I shout at them, they can hear me from maybe 10 metres, and if they panic, we're both screwed.

I may have only been riding for months rather than years, but I've ridden a lot, and I would've used my bell hundreds of times since I started - and this notion that people supposedly take offence to a bell is rubbish. People are happy that you were considerate of their safety.

There's a billion people here with cameras on their bikes - I'd love it if someone could show me a single example of a ped cracking it because they were belled.

Or if anyone can provide me a decent reason not to have one - which no one has.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:21 pm

I had a bell on a mountain bike some years ago now. It was usually ridden along shared paths. In most cases ringing the bell had little impact on pedestrians. They either couldn't hear it (wired for sound) or didn't know what it meant. That's why I now use my voice and can announce "bike back" or "passing on your right", etc. A bell can't provide this communication. Anyone who things a bell is better than your voice for alerting pedestrians has little experience as a cyclist.
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