The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:28 pm

Righto then, I've officially given up, your constant harping on "street cred" pretty much says it all and the standard "douche bag" comment generically thrown at people whose opinions differ from your speaks volumes :roll:
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby skull » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:32 pm

biker jk wrote:I had a bell on a mountain bike some years ago now. It was usually ridden along shared paths. In most cases ringing the bell had little impact on pedestrians. They either couldn't hear it (wired for sound) or didn't know what it meant. That's why I now use my voice and can announce "bike back" or "passing on your right", etc. A bell can't provide this communication. Anyone who things a bell is better than your voice for alerting pedestrians has little experience as a cyclist.


Some hold their positions as part of a passive-aggressive statement.

Mind you on share paths they aren't obliged to get out of your way if they are walking along the path. There is not rule about one person having a greater right of the path, so really a cyclist passing has to slow down and wait until it is clear to safely pass.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:40 pm

skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:I had a bell on a mountain bike some years ago now. It was usually ridden along shared paths. In most cases ringing the bell had little impact on pedestrians. They either couldn't hear it (wired for sound) or didn't know what it meant. That's why I now use my voice and can announce "bike back" or "passing on your right", etc. A bell can't provide this communication. Anyone who things a bell is better than your voice for alerting pedestrians has little experience as a cyclist.


Some hold their positions as part of a passive-aggressive statement.

Mind you on share paths they aren't obliged to get out of your way if they are walking along the path. There is not rule about one person having a greater right of the path, so really a cyclist passing has to slow down and wait until it is clear to safely pass.


Pedestrians need to keep left. When they are walking two abreast and blocking the right hand side of the path I will call "bike back" and then "passing on your right". Of course it's perfectly sensible to slow down and wait until the pedestrian has moved over before passing. A bell won't help achieve a safe pass but your voice will.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:40 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
merlin6014 wrote:Where do you get one of those little old skool cycling horns that make the "di-do-di" noise (you know like the one on the iphone text tone aptly enough called "horn"). I would be proud to sport such a horn. :D


This might come close...

Available at BigW for one.


had a couple of those. both died (plastic cracked) due to weather.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby skull » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:52 pm

biker jk wrote:
Pedestrians need to keep left.


Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:03 pm

skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:Pedestrians need to keep left.
Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.

it should be. not just so i can keep my avg. speed up, but i've lost count of how many times i've approached them walking across the whole path, safely slowing down, then watched them jump out of their skins in shock when they realise i'm behind them. my favorite is when they recover from the shock and yell to SLOW DOWN, when i'm just waiting patiently at walking pace behind them.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:04 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:...none of the 4 voices I've heard calling today were of any use whatsoever.


But you did-by your own admission- hear them. QED.

You have-again, by your own admission-limited experience. Why are you so unwilling to learn from those who have so much more? Jeez, I've been into this cycle commuting lurk since 1996 and I've still got shedloads to learn. From any and everybody who has knowledge I lack.


And as I say, if I had've been talking to my friend, or if I'd actually needed to move over or anything, their voice would've been useless. If I'd been talking, I wouldnt have heard them, if I'd needed to do anything, I didn't have time.

And on your second point, I'm yet to hear a single good reason as to why having a bell on your bike is such a burden - so what am I supposed to be learning here? That I should remove my bell for the street cred when, in actuality, the only people who think this adds to street cred are douche bags? (And I thought I was doing this for fun, for exercise, and to beat the traffic - I didn't realise that image was supposed to be a consideration)

I don't need to learn that a voice is as effective as a bell, because quite simply - it's not. The road bike riders that are generally the ones that don't have a bell are travelling too fast for their voice to be of any use whatsoever.

If I'm travelling at 30km/hr and I bell someone, they can hear me from 50 metres. If they panic, I still have time to look after both of us. If I shout at them, they can hear me from maybe 10 metres, and if they panic, we're both screwed.

I may have only been riding for months rather than years, but I've ridden a lot, and I would've used my bell hundreds of times since I started - and this notion that people supposedly take offence to a bell is rubbish. People are happy that you were considerate of their safety.

There's a billion people here with cameras on their bikes - I'd love it if someone could show me a single example of a ped cracking it because they were belled.

Or if anyone can provide me a decent reason not to have one - which no one has.


The way I look at it, using a bell to try and avoid a collision is using it wrong. A bell is about as effective as voice for asking people to move out of my way. That's all either is good for. The point is that when I use my bell I don't use it because I'm being considerate of other peoples' safety. I do that by overtaking safely (y'know, slowing down, giving plenty of room. Things like that). The idea that pinging a bell makes anyone safer is wrong. The fact that pedestrians (and the odd legislature!) seem to believe it too only makes matters worse.

PS I find people who bell-ping me for no good reason (and the mere fact that they're overtaking most certainly does not count as a good reason) extremely irritating. I get more of this on the bike than on foot, but it bugs me either way.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:08 pm

jules21 wrote:
skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:Pedestrians need to keep left.
Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.

it should be. not just so i can keep my avg. speed up, but i've lost count of how many times i've approached them walking across the whole path, safely slowing down, then watched them jump out of their skins in shock when they realise i'm behind them. my favorite is when they recover from the shock and yell to SLOW DOWN, when i'm just waiting patiently at walking pace behind them.

Heh. Another corker is squealing brakes (which, incidentally, focus peoples' minds like no bell I've ever used. It seems to get them thinking about the safest place they can get to in a real hurry). Plus, I really am just slowing down. :D :D :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:31 pm

skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:
Pedestrians need to keep left.


Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.


I never said it was a law but it is a rule for safe use of shared paths. In contrast, the rule about using a bell to warn pedestrians doesn't really contribute to safety versus using your voice and communicating.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/bicycles/using_shared_paths.html
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jcjordan » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:42 pm

skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:I had a bell on a mountain bike some years ago now. It was usually ridden along shared paths. In most cases ringing the bell had little impact on pedestrians. They either couldn't hear it (wired for sound) or didn't know what it meant. That's why I now use my voice and can announce "bike back" or "passing on your right", etc. A bell can't provide this communication. Anyone who things a bell is better than your voice for alerting pedestrians has little experience as a cyclist.


Some hold their positions as part of a passive-aggressive statement.

Mind you on share paths they aren't obliged to get out of your way if they are walking along the path. There is not rule about one person having a greater right of the path, so really a cyclist passing has to slow down and wait until it is clear to safely pass.

There are rules in the ACT in regards to right of way on the shared paths, pedestrians have right of way.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:05 pm

jules21 wrote:
skull wrote:
biker jk wrote:Pedestrians need to keep left.
Pedestrians keeping left on a share path isn't a law.

it should be. not just so i can keep my avg. speed up, but i've lost count of how many times i've approached them walking across the whole path, safely slowing down, then watched them jump out of their skins in shock when they realise i'm behind them. my favorite is when they recover from the shock and yell to SLOW DOWN, when i'm just waiting patiently at walking pace behind them.


That indeed should be a law - that pedestrians keep left. It needs to be enacted to prevent the pedestrians freaking out as you describe and actually walking into an accident with a bike-rider who has already slowed down. They need to be educated that for their own safety, they should stay left. It makes it safer and more predictable for everyone. Pedestrians can expect that the bike rider will overtake on the right, and bike riders can have some confidence that pedestrians will be on the left lane. You can be riding slowly and still get caught out by these pedestrians. A bit of legally enforced lane obedience would be good for everyone, and it'd also prevent the side-by-side bike-riders having a discussion, oblivious to everyone around them.

jcjordan wrote:There are rules in the ACT in regards to right of way on the shared paths, pedestrians have right of way.


I think we need an organised pedestrian movement to fully exercise this "pedestrians have right of way" provisions to their fullest extent. Perhaps a "pedestrian critical mass"? That might bring about a rethink of a blanket "right of way" and implement a keep left at all times unless passing, with a requirement to look behind you before you go past someone, or walk across the other lane for that matter.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:56 pm

g-boaf wrote:That indeed should be a law - that pedestrians keep left. It needs to be enacted to prevent the pedestrians freaking out as you describe and actually walking into an accident with a bike-rider who has already slowed down. They need to be educated that for their own safety, they should stay left. It makes it safer and more predictable for everyone. Pedestrians can expect that the bike rider will overtake on the right, and bike riders can have some confidence that pedestrians will be on the left lane. You can be riding slowly and still get caught out by these pedestrians.

in the eyes of some (non-cyclists), shared paths are utopian places where people come out to frolic in the open air and stop to smell the roses every 10m. imposing a duty on cyclists to yield to pedestrians is very reasonable in that circumstance.

in reality, with the critical squeeze on metropolitan transport, shared paths have become major arteries for cyclists making their way to work. they don't have time to stop and smell the roses. they don't want to wait behind pedestrians as they take a minute to work out what that dinging sound behind them is. most pedestrians on the major paths i ride on accept this - they're too busy to walk all over. but some are taken by surprise, i'm guessing those who don't use them regularly and are shocked to find them besieged by cyclists.

the law hasn't caught up, i reckon.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:26 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:I'm quite a slow beginner rider - I've done the Lake Burley Griffin loop in Canberra for the first time today.
...
Three of the four people I'm talking about were lycra wearers, which is only significant because lycra-wearing tends to indicate to me a slightly more serious rider in most cases - these people should know better.


Well, you won't find many serious cyclists around there. Morons riding in groups at speed... are just morons.

Stromlo, Uriarra, Cotter, Tidbinbilla, Corin, Fed highway, Apollo Rd etc. - that's where we hang.


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:48 pm

high_tea wrote:[quote

PS I find people who bell-ping me for no good reason (and the mere fact that they're overtaking most certainly does not count as a good reason) extremely irritating. I get more of this on the bike than on foot, but it bugs me either way.

Snipped.

So you have never had a bike move over towards you for no reason whilst overtaking? I have , and then been told to ring a bell !!!!
I have also seen the effects of riders speaking to peds on the path. It comes out as an authoritative bark, and there is certainly no friendliness in the effort.
A bell is non discriminatory at least. :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Livetoride » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:32 am

I would assume he bell ping when over taking is just a 'I'm passing mate' which is merely a safety thing for both of you. Last thing you want is to pull out and the guy coming past collecting you. I'd be more concerned (choice of a better word) if they didn't.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby skull » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:03 am

Livetoride wrote:I would assume he bell ping when over taking is just a 'I'm passing mate' which is merely a safety thing for both of you. Last thing you want is to pull out and the guy coming past collecting you. I'd be more concerned (choice of a better word) if they didn't.


Yeah, however some peds think you are dinging as to tell them to get out of the way.

It is always a 50/50.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:41 am

outnabike wrote:
high_tea wrote:[quote

PS I find people who bell-ping me for no good reason (and the mere fact that they're overtaking most certainly does not count as a good reason) extremely irritating. I get more of this on the bike than on foot, but it bugs me either way.

Snipped.

So you have never had a bike move over towards you for no reason whilst overtaking? I have , and then been told to ring a bell !!!!
I have also seen the effects of riders speaking to peds on the path. It comes out as an authoritative bark, and there is certainly no friendliness in the effort.
A bell is non discriminatory at least. :D

Nope, can't say as I have seen what you describe. I have seen riders veer to the centre of the path on hearing a bell ping. This and similar incidents mean that I do not think bell-pinging helps safety in any way. It's a figleaf.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:17 am

biker jk wrote: In contrast, the rule about using a bell to warn pedestrians doesn't really contribute to safety versus using your voice and communicating.

The funny bit is there is no rule about bells, only about a 'warning device'. Does your voice fit this definition??

Even funnier there is no rule requiring you to use the warning device, only to have it fitted somewhere on your bike - on the seat post? on the front fork stay?

:wink:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:30 am

high_tea wrote:The way I look at it, using a bell to try and avoid a collision is using it wrong. A bell is about as effective as voice for asking people to move out of my way. That's all either is good for.

A bell (or horn or other device) is a warning device. To warn others of your approach. To warn them to ride/walk in a predictable manner, so that you may overtake or pass by them safely. There is no 'demand' to get out of the way involved, and certainly the only way it avoids a collision is by warning them of your approach.

To do this I would always ring the bell 20 metres or more before I pass the pedestrian, maybe as little as 10 metres before passing a cyclist (different closing speed). A second ring for pedestrians if I feel they have not heard the first time.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:39 am

il padrone wrote:
biker jk wrote: In contrast, the rule about using a bell to warn pedestrians doesn't really contribute to safety versus using your voice and communicating.

The funny bit is there is no rule about bells, only about a 'warning device'. Does your voice fit this definition??

Even funnier there is no rule requiring you to use the warning device, only to have it fitted somewhere on your bike - on the seat post? on the front fork stay?

:wink:


It depends on the full wording of that rule - if it talks about a necessity for your bike to be fitted with a warning device, then no, a voice wouldn't fit this definition. You can't fit your bike with a voice.

I agree that the law hasn't caught up - or at least, public awareness hasn't. Why do we have shared paths springing up everywhere when people aren't educated on how to use them properly? With the increase in people riding bikes over the last few years, and the increase in shared paths, where are the public service advertisements about keeping left, maintaining awareness, keeping dogs on leashes and what a bike bell signifies?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:32 am

skull wrote:
wellington_street wrote:
What a moron. Glad there's no peds around at that time.



You know what I see from that video.

The camera rider and the other rider in yellow, riding too slow for the guy on the mountain bike. So he decides to pass, and the other 2 decide to be heroes up the pace to not let him pass easily.

It is obvious from the video that they both started to increase the pace once the mountain bike rider got beside them. Then wouldn't let him move in front. Their ego got in the way. All morons in that video.


Fair call, I didn't notice that the first time I watched it. All I saw was the MTB taking forever to overtake, in the face of several oncoming cyclists who had to take evasive action onto the pedestrians only portion of the shared path. Boognoos can probably confirm the scenario for us as he was there...
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:49 am

biker jk wrote: A bell won't help achieve a safe pass but your voice will.

:?: :?: :?:

I don't see why a bell would not help you here. It's not been my experience - I find most people hear and respond well to a bell-ring.

People seem to respond to a bell better than to spoken voice commands - even on the escalator :lol: . And for a touch of campanile mayhem :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Boognoss » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:04 pm

wellington_street wrote:
Fair call, I didn't notice that the first time I watched it. All I saw was the MTB taking forever to overtake, in the face of several oncoming cyclists who had to take evasive action onto the pedestrians only portion of the shared path. Boognoss can probably confirm the scenario for us as he was there...


I certainly didn't accelerate to block off the MTB rider. He just came blasting through not content to ride in single file like the other bikes were on a narrow section of the shared path in Lane Cove. Further up the hill the other rider did give it a bit of a squirt I think.

I concede that while I didn't make it easy for him to push in front of me I didn't alter my speed anymore than I normally would when accelerating from the crossing at the start of the video. Impatience and rudeness can occur with any form of transport. I see the whole gamut every day.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:23 pm

jasonc wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:
merlin6014 wrote:Where do you get one of those little old skool cycling horns that make the "di-do-di" noise (you know like the one on the iphone text tone aptly enough called "horn"). I would be proud to sport such a horn. :D


This might come close...

Available at BigW for one.


had a couple of those. both died (plastic cracked) due to weather.


I bought a girls' hot pink horn from Amart Sports at Christmas, similar to this one (picture isn't mine):
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs18/PRE/f/2 ... yStock.jpg

$7.

There is an art to using it though - you can't press it in anger as it blows air out too fast and doesn't give a proper squeal. :lol:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby CatCanRide » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:32 pm

:) Summernight - I like the idea of a horn that wont work in anger. One way to help stop you getting hot under the collar. I think I want one of those.

Personally I find that a bell or voice used in passing is very helpful. Especially as I am normally the person being passed. I'm still relatively new to cycling and am still learning to master all those skills that so many of you learnt as a child. Consequently when I am riding if I let my concentration and awareness drop a little bit I can suddenly find myself meandering across the path. When someone alerts me to the fact that they are coming up from behind and passing I can make sure that I do my best and stick to the left.

When I actually get the awesome opportunity to pass another rider I will always let them know I am passing as I know how much I appreciate the warning myself.
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