Wheel building

[Ph billet]

I am using Mavic open 4 CD on my road bike and after 20 years are looking a bit ordinary, can anyone recommend a bike shop in the Sydney area that builds wheels and can supply Mavic rims (latest version ) or even better NOS open 4 CDs (dreaming ) I want to use my 7400 Dura Ace 8 speed cassette hubs.

[Dan]

I have some vgc (not nos) 36h CDs if that suits? In bne though.

[Ph billet]

Thanks but my hubs are 32 spoke and it seems freight on bulky rims makes it better to get locally.

[rollin]

Check your local and ask how long they've been building wheels last thing you want is a kid in skinny jeans to build them up,
Jordan at ride on workshop Balgowlah builds good wheels...

[Discodan]

The best wheel builder in Sydney is definitely Greg at TWE wheels in Newtown. I've not used him myself but everyone raves about the quality, price and that he builds exactly the right wheels to suit you (admittedly more relevant in competition)

http://www.twebikewheels.com.au/

[spirito]

The best wheel builder in Sydney is definitely Greg at TWE wheels in Newtown. I've not used him myself ....

What a recommendation !!

[munga]

lol. who's setting up the annual sydney wheelbuilding comp?

[Paddles]

Building wheels is not a dark art, it's surprisingly easy and when you've finished a lovely set of hoops i personally find it very satisfying (does this make me some sort of sicko). There's a few spoke calculators out there on the web, Mr Sheldon Brown's ones work ok. It is a very tedious yet rewarding job and any "kid in skinny jeans" would be able to do it with a minimum of fuss as long as he has his head screwed on. I'm a rank amateur and still stuff up the leading spoke thing, but all you have to do is strip it, move them around and start again, it's not exactly the end of the world.

[Dan]

Painting a house is not a dark art either, but you can tell the work of a good painter from that of a poor one.

The wheels velo13 built for me are better than the ones I built myself. Purely because he has 15 something years experience and I have 2.

[humanbeing]

Peter Bundy built my wheels - Ambrosio Excellence rims with Campagnolo Chorus hubs, and they are awesome.
http://www.peterbundycycles.com.au/
I note that the Bike Shed Mortdale has a wide range of Mavic rims.
Have a great ride,
Peter

[Paddles]

Hi Dan, out of interest what do you reckon makes them feel better? I've only ever had wheels that were made in the same sweatshop factory that the bike was built or wheels that I've built myself, I've never used ones built by a professional wheel builder. Please don't interpret this as a pizz pull, I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts. Do they just seem to spin truer or better?

[Ph billet]

Ended up going back to my old local bike shop,he found some Mavic Open Pro rims in gray anodised Finnish they look very much like the Open 4cd but with a machined brake area,the guys there cleaned the hubs,new SS spokes and build up the wheels,great job and they look sweet on the bike with the red side wall Michelin Pro 4 tyres.

[Dan]

Hi Dan, out of interest what do you reckon makes them feel better? I've only ever had wheels that were made in the same sweatshop factory that the bike was built or wheels that I've built myself, I've never used ones built by a professional wheel builder. Please don't interpret this as a pizz pull, I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts. Do they just seem to spin truer or better?

Spin the same, sound the same, tension is the same - the difference is that I trust Velo13's 100%, and I trust mine 99%. Experience. It may well be false - I might, for example, have inadvertently built a wheel just as well, but if you had the choice between a guy that'd been doing it for 15 years or a guy that'd been doing it for 2 years, who would you choose?

I'm not saying don't build your own - on the contrary I found it extremely satisfying - just that you need to be prepared for failures in the beginning.

[Paddles]

Yeah, fair call Dan, I've not had a problem with anything I've built yet, but that being said I don't do mega kilometres either and share riding between a couple of bikes. The main problems I have had is during the build and not starting off on the right spoke hole and then not realising it till I get the wheel fully assembled and ready to tension, it's then a case of pull it all apart and start again.

[Dan]

I always have to redo at least one step

[rogerrabbit]

If you are building with 32 or 36 spokes and decent strong rims, building them yourself is pretty easy. Make sure you have good spokes and the length is right (within a mm or so).

I always look to get the spokes tightened up as evenly as possible in the first place by visually judging the end of the spoke in the nipple and trying to get them all the same. Next step is evenly tightening up the wheel one turn at a time until they feel right (compare to other wheels if you don't have experience) Adjust the dish on the back wheel as you go through this process by tightening up the drive side a couple of extra turns at the start of the tightening process. Once at a good tension, time to true.

I normally start with getting the side to side movement within a couple of mm and then focus entirely on the up/down movement. Once the wheel is round (up/down wise) I then go back to side to side, making sure for every tightening of spokes on one side there is an equal loosening of spokes on the other side. Never just loosen or tighten one side to move the rim or you will end up out of round again.

A 3-ply 36h wheel with good spokes and rim is a very strong and forgiving thing. Even if you are not a great wheel builder it won't suddenly fail on you.

On the other hand, a wheel built with 20 spokes and massive spoke tensions, that it something I am not willing to have a go at. The first spoke I have ever broken was a few months ago on a 20 spoke rear wheel, and it left me stranded at West Head with a very buckled wheel. Break a spoke on a 36h wheel, no big deal, tie up the spoke and keep riding.

Roger

[Paddles]

That's pretty much my theory roger and I built my wheels the exact way you describe, I'm no racer, just a recreational rider and my road bike has 36 hole campagnolo omega 19's with triple butted stainless spokes onto some mid-late 80's NOS shimano 105 hubs, i am a 115kg kid and our roads are krap around here with plenty of bumps and they seem to be hanging in there so far. I use 700Cx28 tyres for that extra bit of cushion too.

[rogerrabbit]

I built up a set of 36h Ultegra 6700 hubs onto Mavic GEL330 tubular rims today. I used Sapim 2.0/1.8 butted spokes, brass nipples and top end Vittoria EVO CX tyres. Apart from the tyres this is hardly a lightweight choice of components and will be a very robust set of wheels. What has really surprised me is the weight compared to my modern wheels.

Against a set of Shimano RS80 C50 wheels with top end Ultremo ZX tyres and latex tubes, the Ultegra 36 spoke tubular wheelset is 200g lighter than the C50s. (Same cassette on both)

Against the super light Giant/DT Swiss P-SLR-1 wheels with Hutchison Fusion 3 tubeless tyres, the Ultegra Tubular front wheel was only 10g heavier. I didn't compare the back wheel as the P-SLR-1 rear didn't have a cassette fitted, but I expect the P-SLR-1 will be lighter again due to an alloy freehub. I will weigh them tomorrow.

I am sure the new wheels are more aerodynamic and rigid, but after breaking spokes on modern low spoke count wheels, I am wondering where the advantage is for the weekend ride? It seems the low spoke count rims weigh more than the saving in spoke weight.

Next project might be a set of light modern hubs with a pair of 36h Fiamme Ergal tubular rims (280g or so) and some 2.0/1.5 spokes.

Cheers
Roger

[find_bruce]

My park tools tension meter arrived yesterday so I put it to work today. Made it easy to get a nice even low tension, gradually built up to what I was after, then true as per roger rabbits post above. Seems to have worked out ok so will see how it rides