Wheel building
- Ph billet
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Wheel building
Postby Ph billet » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:25 pm
- Dan
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Dan » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:33 pm
- Ph billet
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Ph billet » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:47 pm
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Re: Wheel building
Postby rollin » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:59 pm
Jordan at ride on workshop Balgowlah builds good wheels...
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Discodan » Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:55 am
http://www.twebikewheels.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- spirito
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Re: Wheel building
Postby spirito » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:19 pm
What a recommendation !!Discodan wrote:The best wheel builder in Sydney is definitely Greg at TWE wheels in Newtown. I've not used him myself ....
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.
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Re: Wheel building
Postby munga » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:39 pm
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:32 am
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Dan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:46 am
The wheels velo13 built for me are better than the ones I built myself. Purely because he has 15 something years experience and I have 2.
- humanbeing
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Re: Wheel building
Postby humanbeing » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:27 pm
http://www.peterbundycycles.com.au/
I note that the Bike Shed Mortdale has a wide range of Mavic rims.
Have a great ride,
Peter
1995 Bosevski - Athena
mid/late eighties Colnago Cromor
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Paddles » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:22 pm
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Ph billet » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:17 pm
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Dan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:51 pm
Spin the same, sound the same, tension is the same - the difference is that I trust Velo13's 100%, and I trust mine 99%. Experience. It may well be false - I might, for example, have inadvertently built a wheel just as well, but if you had the choice between a guy that'd been doing it for 15 years or a guy that'd been doing it for 2 years, who would you choose?Paddles wrote:Hi Dan, out of interest what do you reckon makes them feel better? I've only ever had wheels that were made in the same sweatshop factory that the bike was built or wheels that I've built myself, I've never used ones built by a professional wheel builder. Please don't interpret this as a pizz pull, I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts. Do they just seem to spin truer or better?
I'm not saying don't build your own - on the contrary I found it extremely satisfying - just that you need to be prepared for failures in the beginning.
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Paddles » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:32 am
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Re: Wheel building
Postby rogerrabbit » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:56 pm
I always look to get the spokes tightened up as evenly as possible in the first place by visually judging the end of the spoke in the nipple and trying to get them all the same. Next step is evenly tightening up the wheel one turn at a time until they feel right (compare to other wheels if you don't have experience) Adjust the dish on the back wheel as you go through this process by tightening up the drive side a couple of extra turns at the start of the tightening process. Once at a good tension, time to true.
I normally start with getting the side to side movement within a couple of mm and then focus entirely on the up/down movement. Once the wheel is round (up/down wise) I then go back to side to side, making sure for every tightening of spokes on one side there is an equal loosening of spokes on the other side. Never just loosen or tighten one side to move the rim or you will end up out of round again.
A 3-ply 36h wheel with good spokes and rim is a very strong and forgiving thing. Even if you are not a great wheel builder it won't suddenly fail on you.
On the other hand, a wheel built with 20 spokes and massive spoke tensions, that it something I am not willing to have a go at. The first spoke I have ever broken was a few months ago on a 20 spoke rear wheel, and it left me stranded at West Head with a very buckled wheel. Break a spoke on a 36h wheel, no big deal, tie up the spoke and keep riding.
Roger
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Paddles » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:46 pm
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Re: Wheel building
Postby rogerrabbit » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:48 pm
Against a set of Shimano RS80 C50 wheels with top end Ultremo ZX tyres and latex tubes, the Ultegra 36 spoke tubular wheelset is 200g lighter than the C50s. (Same cassette on both)
Against the super light Giant/DT Swiss P-SLR-1 wheels with Hutchison Fusion 3 tubeless tyres, the Ultegra Tubular front wheel was only 10g heavier. I didn't compare the back wheel as the P-SLR-1 rear didn't have a cassette fitted, but I expect the P-SLR-1 will be lighter again due to an alloy freehub. I will weigh them tomorrow.
I am sure the new wheels are more aerodynamic and rigid, but after breaking spokes on modern low spoke count wheels, I am wondering where the advantage is for the weekend ride? It seems the low spoke count rims weigh more than the saving in spoke weight.
Next project might be a set of light modern hubs with a pair of 36h Fiamme Ergal tubular rims (280g or so) and some 2.0/1.5 spokes.
Cheers
Roger
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Re: Wheel building
Postby find_bruce » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:00 pm
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Velo13 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:24 pm
Hey Roger, good solid spec there. Sure there is lighter, but those are certainly not heavy components (well, the hubs are not light, but not bad). A GEL330 was considered light, but not super light in it's day (GEL280s were a little scary to ride, OR10s are ridiculous).rogerrabbit wrote:I built up a set of 36h Ultegra 6700 hubs onto Mavic GEL330 tubular rims today. I used Sapim 2.0/1.8 butted spokes, brass nipples and top end Vittoria EVO CX tyres. Apart from the tyres this is hardly a lightweight choice of components and will be a very robust set of wheels.
Tubs are always a fair bit lighter than clinchers, there is just less metal required. I ride a 24/28h set of Velocity A23 clinchers at the moment that weigh in at 1560g. By swapping the rims to tubs of similar strength and stiffness, I could drop that to 1440g. Additionally, tubs tend to be lighter than tyres, tubes and rim tape.
But (as they say), everything in life is a compromise. I am happy with the convenience of clinchers for riding around where I live.
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Re: Wheel building
Postby rogerrabbit » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:13 pm
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Jean » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:14 am
It's not a very sensible plan, but I must admit I'm feeling a bit of need to build some tubs. I've never ridden them and don't race on the road anymore but I think I just want to try them and see what I've been missing. Mmmm, Ambrosio tubular rims in silver . Under $80 for a pair of Montreal rims (plus shipping), more mmmm.rogerrabbit wrote:I built up a set of 36h Ultegra 6700 hubs onto Mavic GEL330 tubular rims today. I used Sapim 2.0/1.8 butted spokes, brass nipples and top end Vittoria EVO CX tyres. Apart from the tyres this is hardly a lightweight choice of components and will be a very robust set of wheels. What has really surprised me is the weight compared to my modern wheels.
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Re: Wheel building
Postby ironhanglider » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:16 pm
I'll lend you my crit wheels for a while if you like. I built them cheaply from second hand rims so I'm not too scared for their welfare. The 'tubular experience' people talk about mostly comes from the tyres IMO.Jean wrote:It's not a very sensible plan, but I must admit I'm feeling a bit of need to build some tubs. I've never ridden them and don't race on the road anymore but I think I just want to try them and see what I've been missing. Mmmm, Ambrosio tubular rims in silver . Under $80 for a pair of Montreal rims (plus shipping), more mmmm.rogerrabbit wrote:I built up a set of 36h Ultegra 6700 hubs onto Mavic GEL330 tubular rims today. I used Sapim 2.0/1.8 butted spokes, brass nipples and top end Vittoria EVO CX tyres. Apart from the tyres this is hardly a lightweight choice of components and will be a very robust set of wheels. What has really surprised me is the weight compared to my modern wheels.
Cheers,
Cameron
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Re: Wheel building
Postby Velo13 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:59 am
Well, you can't have the tyres without the rims! Perhaps the wide rim "clinchular" option is worth persuing? Do a search on Velocity A23, H+Son Archetype/TB14 or Pacenti SL23. These are clincher rims with a wider profile, that enable better sidewall support on 23 or 25c tyres. The ride is much closer (grip, comfort) to a tubular. There is heaps of guff about it on the web.ironhanglider wrote:I'll lend you my crit wheels for a while if you like. I built them cheaply from second hand rims so I'm not too scared for their welfare. The 'tubular experience' people talk about mostly comes from the tyres IMO.Jean wrote:It's not a very sensible plan, but I must admit I'm feeling a bit of need to build some tubs. I've never ridden them and don't race on the road anymore but I think I just want to try them and see what I've been missing. Mmmm, Ambrosio tubular rims in silver . Under $80 for a pair of Montreal rims (plus shipping), more mmmm.rogerrabbit wrote:Apart from the tyres this is hardly a lightweight choice of components and will be a very robust set of wheels. What has really surprised me is the weight compared to my modern wheels.
That said, it is not quite the same as a tubular, but certainly a vast improvement on 20mm wide rims like Opens, Fusions, Aeroheads (well most 700c rims and factory wheels actually).
These days, I build about 90% of new 700c alloy builds using these wider rims ...
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Re: Wheel building
Postby ironhanglider » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:45 pm
These are retro low profile tubular rims that I built up with cheap 32H Novotech hubs and some spokes that I had lying around. (I had to build the front 1 cross to be able to use the length I had) so the wheels don't owe me much.
The tyres on them are ok but they don't set the world on fire, Vittoria Corsa CX on the back and a Vredestein Volante Tri Comp on the front. Better tyres would offer Jean the best chance to know what he's missing.
Since we have a crit circuit here in Canberra my ideal crit wheels wouldn't be much different to these, cheap, and light (aero is for people who sit on the front) but I would probably put some more exotic tyres on since punctures are rare.
Sadly I'm not able to race the mid-week crits in summer so the wheels don't get a lot of use.
Seriously Jean you are welcome to borrow them for long enough to make your mind up.
Cheers,
Cameron
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