The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Aushiker » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:43 am

For information sakes for the WA readers, the Western Australian Road Code 2000 requires a bell or similar warning device in working order has to be affixed to the bike. The Road Traffic (Bicycles) Regulations 2002 regulation 7 take this a step further requiring the bell or warning device to be fixed in a convenient position.

I cannot recall any regulations about actually using a warning device but however, if one hit a pedestrian, not being able to show ones use of a warning device may not depending on the circumstances play in one's favour I suspect.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby malnar » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:35 am

The bell works well for me on the shared path*. Most, including those I pass regularly, move left on the first ding from about 20m back. Others move left on a second ding from 5-10m, the rest do nothing. When that happens I pass at about 10ks with my finger ready for further dingage.

I find it works well with a large majority of dogs too. The high pitch seems to often make them freeze which is exactly what you want.
A couple of months ago I dinged a female jogger who moved left and as I passed she said ‘you could at least thank me’. When I ding, my intent is to let them know I’m there what they do is up to them so I don’t see why a thanks is necessary. Despite that, I thought about what she said and have started waving a thanks to those that make a real effort to move. I’ve found it feels good to do that and I hope the goodwill is received.

I got a funny reaction to a ding a couple of weeks ago. The guy turned around and raised his arms in worship as though his messiah is a bicycle bell. Had a chuckle.

*Except when it’s wet. The bell is quite a bit quieter and has little sustain when it’s wet.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby csy75 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:38 am

for a morning laugh:


Image

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby InTheWoods » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:46 am

csy75 wrote:for a morning laugh:


Funny...but I don't want to laugh because its great she's on a bike with all the benefits that is going to bring :?

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:56 am

malnar wrote:The bell works well for me on the shared path*. Most, including those I pass regularly, move left on the first ding from about 20m back. Others move left on a second ding from 5-10m, the rest do nothing. When that happens I pass at about 10ks with my finger ready for further dingage.

I find it works well with a large majority of dogs too. The high pitch seems to often make them freeze which is exactly what you want.
A couple of months ago I dinged a female jogger who moved left and as I passed she said ‘you could at least thank me’. When I ding, my intent is to let them know I’m there what they do is up to them so I don’t see why a thanks is necessary. Despite that, I thought about what she said and have started waving a thanks to those that make a real effort to move. I’ve found it feels good to do that and I hope the goodwill is received.

I got a funny reaction to a ding a couple of weeks ago. The guy turned around and raised his arms in worship as though his messiah is a bicycle bell. Had a chuckle.

*Except when it’s wet. The bell is quite a bit quieter and has little sustain when it’s wet.


My usual trick is to call out passing on the right or whatever and then say thanks. That usually keeps most people happy and it's a bit more friendly than a bell.

Or in one case, "passing -not as fast as him" in reference to the (certain western Sydney cycling club) guy who had just gone past them at close to 40km/h. To which they chuckled with laughter. I'd followed the other guy for a while (with a bit of a gap) before deciding it was my go slow day, and there are a few pedestrians about now, time to slow down.

I only go that quickly now on M7 or if there are no pedestrians about on very wide shared paths where I can see what is ahead.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Lukeyboy » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:19 am

csy75 wrote:for a morning laugh:


Image


'Murica!

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:22 am

at least she's on a bike..

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Aushiker » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:35 am

jules21 wrote:at least she's on a bike..

+ 1 ...

Can't find anything funny about the photo ...

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:44 am

When I'm out walking and/or running on shard paths, I really do appreciate the bell from cyclists.

In my experience, the cyclists riding along the foreshore paths use it 90+% of the time, whereas when I'm on the PSP next to the freeway, bell usage is like 10%.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby gbh » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:45 am

malnar wrote:A couple of months ago I dinged a female jogger who moved left and as I passed she said ‘you could at least thank me’. When I ding, my intent is to let them know I’m there what they do is up to them so I don’t see why a thanks is necessary. Despite that, I thought about what she said and have started waving a thanks to those that make a real effort to move. I’ve found it feels good to do that and I hope the goodwill is received.


I try always to thank people - pedestrians, motorists, other cyclists - who adjust their behaviour to accommodate my cycling. Apart from the courtesy element, I can't think of anything more likely to ensure that they keep doing it.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Boognoss » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:48 am

gbh wrote:
malnar wrote:A couple of months ago I dinged a female jogger who moved left and as I passed she said ‘you could at least thank me’. When I ding, my intent is to let them know I’m there what they do is up to them so I don’t see why a thanks is necessary. Despite that, I thought about what she said and have started waving a thanks to those that make a real effort to move. I’ve found it feels good to do that and I hope the goodwill is received.


I try always to thank people - pedestrians, motorists, other cyclists - who adjust their behaviour to accommodate my cycling. Apart from the courtesy element, I can't think of anything more likely to ensure that they keep doing it.


+1. I'm forever waving and/or giving a thumbsup to motorists when they actually observe me arm out indicating a lane change, etc.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Ross » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:01 pm

twizzle wrote:Had a dumb cyclist today - unusually hard to pass because he sat on the right hand side of the on-road lane and didn't move over even when he knew I was there and wanted to pass, halfway up the next hill he sprinted past me, and once over the top did the roadblock manoeuvre again.


Had a similar thing happen to me on Nothbourne yesterday morning. I was just coming back from a ride to the Tulip Farm and going through the lights at Dickson when a 4WD drove past and indicated he was going to turn left. So I slowed down to let him do his turn and made sure I was in his mirror range. Next minute this hairy legged clown on a road bike comes blasting past like he's trying for KOM on a Strava segment. The 4WD manages to turn and not hit Mr Hurry Hairy Legs and I continue on my way. A few hundred metres later while riding at E1 I caught Mr HHL but decided just to sit behind him (not on his wheel, a couple of bike lengths back) as I was in no particular hurry and didn't want to look like a tosser the same as him. He kept slowing down and going slower and slower until eventually when there was a break in the traffic I went out in traffic lane and overtook him. Next minute I look back and he is on my wheel. Say What. Stupid pr!(k. I started stopping for the next set of traffic lights (didn't bother to signal or call stopping, I didn't invite the guy to suck my wheel so if he crashes that's not my problem) and then he decides instead of waiting at the lights like I was he was now going to be a pedestrian and rides up onto the footpath. At least he was now away from me.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:21 pm

I was the dumb cyclist this morning. If you were the bloke I scared climbing up to St Lucia golf course, I can only apologise. Got caught out and had to make a split-second decision where to go. Picked the wrong one and went left (riders behind me on my right). Bad bad bad bad. Sorry mate, will do better in future... :oops:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:52 pm

Aushiker wrote:
jules21 wrote:at least she's on a bike..

+ 1 ...

Can't find anything funny about the photo ...

Well, the placement of her child would be funny if it wasn't so disturbing :o She really needs a kiddy-trailer :|
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:58 pm

Just a polite reminder, condsidering it's my thread, and the pic of the squashed child has been around for years....

This thread is for posts about observed incidents and discussions of those incidents. Going off-topic to discuss things such as the unfairness of red lights, bicycle helmets or "rights" should be carried out elsewhere.

And OT includes random pictures.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:14 pm

high_tea wrote:
newie wrote: Safety is the first priority, the politeness of letting them know I am coming is second. The other day I had a lady complain at me for not using the bell (even though I passed her safely and she had no objection on that front) and I rode along next to her for a bit and tried to explain to her why, but I couldn't get through. It was a polite conversation, but ineffective, so I won't be bothering with that again. Although I have previously had success with that conversation off the bike, with people who when they find out you are a cyclist bring it up as a gripe.


That's pretty much my take on it too. Riding safely is the priority, as you rightly point out. It's possible to ride safely and sound a bell roughly never. Because of this, I find the criticism of not having a bell completely unwarranted. The expectation that I should always sound my bell when passing is stupid*. I don't intend to start gratifying the stupid expectations of random strangers anytime soon. Bell + sensible riding is fine with me. No bell + sensible riding too. Take the sensible riding away and I have an issue, bell or no bell. The only thing I need one for, near as I can judge, is meeting some stupid expectations and not breaking a stupid law.

* Among other things, I can't see it scaling worth a tinker's cuss, so it must be some kind of depends-on-the-situation thing and I suspect asking 10 different people when you have to ping your bell would get you 10 different answers


That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using a bell. If you can't safely operate a bell, there's no way you can safely operate a whole bike.

And with the greatest of respect Twizzle, because you seem to be one of the more reasonable posters here - but I don't believe that starting a thread makes it "yours". Any thread on a public forum belongs to that forums community IMO.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:42 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using a bell. If you can't safely operate a bell, there's no way you can safely operate a whole bike.

And with the greatest of respect Twizzle, because you seem to be one of the more reasonable posters here - but I don't believe that starting a thread makes it "yours". Any thread on a public forum belongs to that forums community IMO.

Nice strawman. I said it was, generally speaking, safe not to ring a bell. You take this to mean it's dangerous to ring one. Wrong!

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:51 pm

high_tea wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:
That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using a bell. If you can't safely operate a bell, there's no way you can safely operate a whole bike.

And with the greatest of respect Twizzle, because you seem to be one of the more reasonable posters here - but I don't believe that starting a thread makes it "yours". Any thread on a public forum belongs to that forums community IMO.

Nice strawman. I said it was, generally speaking, safe not to ring a bell. You take this to mean it's dangerous to ring one. Wrong!


Ok - I'll take your word for it that it wasn't what you met. But even having read your clarification, I still can't understand what you were trying to say.

Does this make me an internet grammar nazi?

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:58 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
high_tea wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:
That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using a bell. If you can't safely operate a bell, there's no way you can safely operate a whole bike.

And with the greatest of respect Twizzle, because you seem to be one of the more reasonable posters here - but I don't believe that starting a thread makes it "yours". Any thread on a public forum belongs to that forums community IMO.

Nice strawman. I said it was, generally speaking, safe not to ring a bell. You take this to mean it's dangerous to ring one. Wrong!


Ok - I'll take your word for it that it wasn't what you met. But even having read your clarification, I still can't understand what you were trying to say.

Does this make me an internet grammar nazi?


No. I suppose it might make you an internet semantics nazi, but that's a game for experts only :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: In particular, you need to be clear on the difference between grammar and semantics before you go there. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I will in turn assume good faith on your part and try again. Ringing a bell is neither necessary nor sufficient to ensure safe riding. HTH. HAND.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Baalzamon » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:02 pm

To that idiot cyclist that I almost knocked off his bike
DO NOT go to the side of a car turning left at a roundabout you almost became a hood ornament /rant
Essentially I was turning left off karel Ave onto the onramp for Roe Hwy. I was looking to the right at traffic seeing when I could go, I got opening and went fully unaware I had a bike on my left, next thing it's scooting infront of me, if I had a petrol car not diesel he would have been a hood ornament and I would have had to call ambo.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:09 pm

gbh wrote:
malnar wrote:A couple of months ago I dinged a female jogger who moved left and as I passed she said ‘you could at least thank me’. When I ding, my intent is to let them know I’m there what they do is up to them so I don’t see why a thanks is necessary. Despite that, I thought about what she said and have started waving a thanks to those that make a real effort to move. I’ve found it feels good to do that and I hope the goodwill is received.


I try always to thank people - pedestrians, motorists, other cyclists - who adjust their behaviour to accommodate my cycling. Apart from the courtesy element, I can't think of anything more likely to ensure that they keep doing it.


THIS!!!!!!!

The good ones get a "Thanks!", a smile and wave, the meh ones get not much more than a muttered "ta" and the bad ones get anything from a blown kiss via an eyroll and head tap to a full blown Hellenic gesture of contempt. As always, option three varies widely according to incident and prevailing mood.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:16 pm

high_tea wrote:No. I suppose it might make you an internet semantics nazi, but that's a game for experts only :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: In particular, you need to be clear on the difference between grammar and semantics before you go there. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:



I'll admit it - I lol'd.

I still strongly disagree on your other point though - you can give a lot more notice with a bell than you can with their voice. The people who I've experienced using their voices just don't use them effectively enough to be valuable. The fact remains that a bell can be heard from 50 metres - a voice can't.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:19 am

fatdudeonabike wrote:That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:28 am

twizzle wrote:On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?

Anywhere you wish to. Surely you can move your hands. :? If you have problems doing so then consider getting flat bars or some other bars that suit your abilities.

(I'm not advocating the need for bells. But the logic of "I have drop-bars therefore I can't use a bell" seems a little bizarre.)

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:41 am

twizzle wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?


Sent from my iThingy...


This is, I think an issue that hasn't really been addressed. Put the bell on the tops or a headset spacer and it is functionally useless, put it anywhere near the brifters in a way that will work and there's sodall room for your hands. I'd appreciate photos from any member who's solved this problem without recourse to an AZ or electronic device.

Late edit. Dunno about you H, but quite often the times I need an audible warning device are also the times it's a good idea to be covering the brakes, if not actually hauling hard on the levers because once again some iPed has chosen to blindly make a busy road part of their meanderings. I'll stick with the Acme Siren clenched ready between me teeth in the likely spots.

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