ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby clackers » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:27 pm

Phil, Phil, Phil ... :sad:
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by BNA » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:33 pm

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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby clackers » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:33 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
David Walsh (Author of LA Confidential etc) implies that LeMond lost around US$30m from his Trek relationship as a fairly direct result of this.
)


LeMond himself said $11m, Colin, but either way ...
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby AUbicycles » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:01 pm

wombatK wrote:If it's just business, call it business not sport. Don't expect taxpayer's money and subsidies
to provide for training and development of your athletes, cyclists, footballers etc.,.
Maybe even bring on HECS fees for institute of sports interns.


:) I meant the business side of the sport. In the context of the sponsors who make it financially possible for a team to be to participate as Pro Tour Team and in return they get the exposure, association and hopefully sales.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby The_Eggman » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:13 pm

wombatK wrote:
If it's just business, call it business not sport. Don't expect taxpayer's money and subsidies
to provide for training and development of your athletes, cyclists, footballers etc.,.
Maybe even bring on HECS fees for institute of sports interns.


Personally I think this is long overdue.

Why we're happy to bankroll an athlete with no strings attached and not a nurse or a teacher is beyond me
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:21 pm

The_Eggman wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:With the hospital admission around Betsy Andreui, I am not certain what the deal is there and why he wont confess. The doctors/hospital have patient confidentiality so wouldn't think there are any issues there. That said, am wondering about the specific implications on an admission to this - is it because of testimony that Armstrong gave and consequences as it is past the statue of limitations.


My guess is this about not wanting to drop that woman from Oakley in it. She's clearly lied for Pharmstrong under oath at that same deposition where he said the hospital room incident never happened.


It beggars beleive that the pertinent remarks that Betsy and Frankie Andreu witnessed would not have found their way into Armstrongs medical notes at the time of his cancer treatment. I understand that the good doctor/s have also made statements (under oath to the Grand Jury? Or just public "fibs") denying the contents of the conversation. Whatever, he certainly Dr. Larry Einhorn made some misleading statements about it and it is a matter of record that Lance Armstrong/Livestrong or whatever set up a US$1.5M endowment to create a chair in the good oncologists name in his university. Strings have been joined by others between these things.

There are others in that room or who would otherwise know of the matters raised there are probably also being protected.
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Re: ABC Four Corners -

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:32 pm

clackers wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:
David Walsh (Author of LA Confidential etc) implies that LeMond lost around US$30m from his Trek relationship as a fairly direct result of this.
)


LeMond himself said $11m, Colin, but either way ...

Yes, I heard that last night. David Walsh earlier published that Trek had intimated to LeMond, by their reckoning, that the lost deal cost him a reckoned $30M over the expected life of the deal.

It would be great if LeMond got some of that money back. To be added to his justifiable elevation from "bitter and jealous past champion" to the one and only US Tour winner. I wonder how many of LeMonds past accusers are now hiding in the shadows hoping it all blows over before their names are tossed around in the public arena also.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:51 pm

The_Eggman wrote:Personally I think this is long overdue.

Why we're happy to bankroll an athlete with no strings attached and not a nurse or a teacher is beyond me

Jingoism.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby BandedRail » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:03 pm

This Lance Armstrong thing has ruined the TdF for me - reduced pro-cycling to the level of WWF as was said on the ABC program. Unless there is a serious change in the UCI and a major clean-up in the sport on the whole then I'm going to give it a miss. Which is a real shame & I'll miss it a lot. I had serious doubts about how "clean" the sport was looking at the state of some of the lead riders at the end of mountain stages during last years TdF and this affair goes a long way to confirming my suspicions. Damn you all to hell L.A. and all who follow in your footsteps.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby drubie » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:21 am

BandedRail wrote:This Lance Armstrong thing has ruined the TdF for me - reduced pro-cycling to the level of WWF as was said on the ABC program.


You need to read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton and Daniel Coyle.

It'll give you some idea of how it happened - it certainly set me straight. It allowed me to separate the Armstrong personality and "off the planet performances" of other riders of the era from the sport I love. It certainly doesn't make what these riders did "right" in any sense but at least gives some perspective on how it happened (and perhaps is still happening to some degree). It's still better than WWF or pretty much any professional sport if you consider just how widespread the usage of drugs in sport is at the professional level.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Ross » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:40 am

drubie wrote: It's still better than WWF or pretty much any professional sport if you consider just how widespread the usage of drugs in sport is at the professional level.


Anything is better than WWF, :roll:

People cheat on Strava where there are no prizes on offer, of course there is going to be cheating in professional sport.

..AFL News
Essendon facing AFL and ASADA investigation over its supplements given to players - http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/essend ... 6570861343
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Nobody » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:50 am

Norbs' blog on PEDs in other sports. In case some missed it.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=61193
Last edited by Nobody on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Paddles » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:57 am

The real cost is the emotional penalty to these people's lives for over a decade. LA made their lives a misery, he dragged them through court, slandered them in the media, lied about them in testimony to his attornys and to the authorities as well as publicly assasinating their characters. How do you place a value on people's lives? Frankie Andreu reckons people would turn their backs when they saw him, they would refuse to shake hands, he lost credibility and friends, all this from the public's belief in a lyer.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby herzog » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:14 am

LOL at the WWF comparisons.

But then on reflection there are many unsettling similarities.

Both WWF and TDF feature angry, doped up, mostly white men in lurid spandex outfits!

Yeeouch.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Sayonara » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:38 am

drubie wrote:
BandedRail wrote:This Lance Armstrong thing has ruined the TdF for me - reduced pro-cycling to the level of WWF as was said on the ABC program.


You need to read "The Secret Race" by Tyler Hamilton and Daniel Coyle. quote]


Yeah right.....speaking of Dan Coyle, he also wrote Lance Armstrong's War

http://www.amazon.com/Lance-Armstrongs- ... pd_sim_b_5

''Lance Armstrong's War is the extraordinary story of greatness pushed to its limits; a vivid behind-the-scenes portrait of perhaps the most accomplished athlete of our time as he competes in the toughest sporting event on the planet. The incomparable will to win that famously lifted Armstrong beyond his humble Texas roots, beyond cancer, and to unparalleled heights of success is revealed by acclaimed journalist Daniel Coyle in new and startling dimensions. It is the true story of a superlative sports figure fighting on all fronts -- made newly vulnerable by age, fate, fame, doping allegations, a painful divorce, and an unprecedented army of challengers -- while mastering the exceedingly difficult trick of being Lance Armstrong, a combination of world-class athlete, celebrity, regular guy, and, for many Americans, secular saint. ''

That's gotta be worth a laugh
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby drubie » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:59 am

Sayonara wrote:''Lance Armstrong's War is the extraordinary story of greatness pushed to its limits;...

That's gotta be worth a laugh


Not as much as a laugh as the Chris Carmichael training book I saw in the local book shop: "The Lance Armstrong Performance Program, with Lance Armstrong"

I had a flick through it and it doesn't mention EPO or blood transfusions at all! What a gyp.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Sayonara » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:37 am

Ah, nice find!
also a pity it didnt mention tactics...like suing and mobster standover attacks.

I cant wait for the release of Ferrari's novel ''Me and the Moto-man''... printed on recycled white paper bags
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby bardygrub » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:22 pm

Sayonara wrote:Ah, nice find!
also a pity it didnt mention tactics...like suing and mobster standover attacks.

I cant wait for the release of Ferrari's novel ''Me and the Moto-man''... printed on recycled white paper bags

Comes with a bonus empty coke can :P
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:34 pm

An update from the US on the status of the criminal investigation - http://abcnews.go.com/story?id=18415386

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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby trailgumby » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:25 pm

Aushiker wrote:An update from the US on the status of the criminal investigation - http://abcnews.go.com/story?id=18415386

Andrew

Good.

Andre Birotte's unexplained dropping of the earlier case stinks (like a body in the basement*) of political string-pulling.

* Thanks Joerg Jaschke for one of the most salient metaphors I've heard for awhile
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:18 pm

bardygrub wrote:
Sayonara wrote:Ah, nice find!
also a pity it didnt mention tactics...like suing and mobster standover attacks.

I cant wait for the release of Ferrari's novel ''Me and the Moto-man''... printed on recycled white paper bags

Comes with a bonus empty coke can :P

Yeah - funny how those empty cans can prick you. :shock:
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Sayonara » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:13 pm

LA probably feels like a bit of a prick (at last) too
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Howzat » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:18 pm

brentono wrote:
MIKE ASHENDEN: There's little doubt in my mind that it was to protect the reputation of the sport.
They weren't interested in catching dopers,
they were interested in avoiding the scandal with comes with catching dopers.


+1 on this, Brentono. Except it could be in the present tense for the UCI today.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby herzog » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:46 pm

Tell you what, I'll never buy anything from Trek or Oakley after this sorry episode.
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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:55 pm

The Telegraph (UK) is reporting that "Lance Armstrong will not pay back more than £7.7 million in bonus payments won as a result of his seven Tour de France victories...." The articles goes on to say

The disgraced American rider’s lawyer, Tim Herman, told USA Today that the refund of bonus payments to SCA Promotions, the company that initially refused to pay out a multi-million bonus and which led to Armstrong lying under oath, was subject to a legal loophole.

The ­settlement terms say the case cannot be reopened, although SCA is about to file a new lawsuit to recoup £7.9 million in costs and bonus money. Herman said that the deal had always been with Armstrong’s management company, Tailwind, not Armstrong personally.

Armstrong will also fail to meet today’s deadline set by the US Anti-Doping Agency to provide information on the extent of his drug-taking during his cycling career.

He has told Usada that he cannot meet the time-frame to provide information because of "prior obligations" but insisted he would co-operate with a truth and reconciliation commission set up by the World Anti-Doping Agency.
Armstrong has clashed with the head of Usada, Travis Tygart, who has disputed his claim he was clean during his comeback at the 2009 and 2010 Tours de France.


The balance of the article can be found on The Telegraph website.

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Re: ABC Four Corners - "Lance and the Truth"

Postby brentono » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:45 am

Howzat wrote:
brentono wrote:
MIKE ASHENDEN: There's little doubt in my mind that it was to protect the reputation of the sport.
They weren't interested in catching dopers,
they were interested in avoiding the scandal with comes with catching dopers.


+1 on this, Brentono. Except it could be in the present tense for the UCI today.


With respect to Greg Lemond, but American's cycling really only began and now ended with LA.
For many who closely follow cycling, USAC is perceived as being too closely aligned with the UCI
Both are the subject of ongoing accusations,
that the UCI has even been complicit in covering up positive drug tests along with USAC.
ASHENDEN was privy to all this information (the reason for leaving) and he will be one of
the key witnesses, if an investigation, at the highest levels, is conducted.
Meaning, a Federal or even International Commission, if that is possible.
The rot is at the highest levels, and it is Institutional and Jingoistic
And it is not only in Cycling in the good-'ol U. S. of A. (many other sports) :wink:
Will watch with interest.
Note:I'm not saying Australia is above it, either. :(
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