Shoe upgrade performance test
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Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sb944 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:01 pm
The upgrade is:
Pearl Izumi SPD commute shoes $50 to Shimano R320 carbon soled shoes $275
Shimano A520 pedals $32 to Shimano 105 pedals $46
SPD cleats to SPD-SL cleats
If marketing has taught me anything, the shoes are a no brainer to increase performance. My shoes are stiffer than the average sports shoe, but their thick clunky rubber soles are surely no match for an ultra stiff thin carbon fibre beauty for getting power to the pedal. I'll also get a huge weight reduction on the shoes, which I will try to measure, but it's a claimed 150g per shoe, might even be more at my size 49. Other benefits are less for speed and more for comfort, which I don't think will change my test results much, but will of course help my general bike riding, and will be wellcomed for that.
Pedals shouldn't really make much of a difference. Their weight is almost identical, and I researched a bit before deciding on the 105's, and sorry marketers, but forums did kick up a stink to paying over $200 for Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals when the 105 gets the job done "probably" just as well. Even the Ultegra step up was over double the price and only reduced a hair of weight from the pedal.
SPD vs SPD-SL. I know less about this variable in terms of potential for speed increase, but there are plenty of claims that SPD-SL feels more connected. Whether more connected means faster I'm not sure.
To me this is the ultimate test. You take the lowest of the low parts, upgraded them to virtually the highest of the high parts and have a crack at recently set PB's. If there is no performance increase, then marketers trully have won this game.
My main testing is over strava segments I've done up to 100 times each, and they are uninterupted by intersections, cars or pedestrians as much as can be. I have a 1km steep hill, a 5km ride through the national park and a 2km fairly flat uninterupted freeway sprint. My PB's on all of these have come in the last 2-3 weeks, and I've been busting a gut to make that happen, so I'm going into this thinking a PB is a very strong result to start with. I can also guess to some degree the wind factor. Like yesterday I felt great, so had a genuine crack at the 1km steep hill, but failed by 4 seconds on a 1:27 PB. That was a wind that was kind of neutral, I had a tailwind when I set that PB, so I put most of the result down to wind, maybe a touch of legs/form. National Park is a little more variable, but unless the wind is right against me, there is usually little in it still.
So my test will last a couple of weeks only, and after that I think fitness gains may start to play too much of a part in it. If all goes well, I'll swap over equipment tonight, and be doing my first couple of segments tomorrow afternoon for attempt 1 at a shoe upgrade performance test.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby jasonc » Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:22 pm
finally, someone with bigger shoes than me (size 48)sb944 wrote:might even be more at my size 49.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby dynamictiger » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:03 pm
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby Crittski » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:37 pm
Volagi Liscio Ultegra
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby AKO » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:08 am
Malvern Star XCS 5.0 MTB (2012)
Malvern Star Path Racer 1 (2015)
ProLite Cuneo
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sb944 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:05 am
One problem, I couldn't get the pedal off. I laboured for 10 minutes with a multitool hex key, then came inside and read up on which way they need to turn, and decided I had the wrong direction, and probably the wrong tool too if tight. On that direction I tried a multikey, but couldn't budge it, cheap hex key, which I wore down instantly, and a sort of multi function wrench thing that fit well. All no good, so I gave up. Fresh mind today, I read up on the net again, and I decided I was definitely trying the wrong direction at the end, and also I had the wrong tool. I bought a decent 15mm wrench on the way to work. It's not as long as a pedal wrench, but I figure I'll sit on the bike and use my feet to torque it up a bit.
AKO, great news about the speed increase, not so great about the pains. I have some esoles for adjusting my shoes with potential pain I might get, which with a couple of wedges potentially, should be enough to make my ride super comfortable as well as fast.
I often average between 26 and 28, but if I go all out on a ride, and attack every intersection and downhill, can get to 30km/h on the same route. For that reason, I think a smaller strava segment is a better test, as I never hold back on those, and intersections don't come into play.
I'm going to try the pedals again at lunch, and if it works quickly enough, will do a little break in of the shoes and test clipping/unclipping near work. If not ... I'll probably be crying my way to the super expensive bike shop near work.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sogood » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:26 am
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sb944 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:28 pm
Winds are favourable for a couple of the strava segments today, my legs feel OK, so I'm expecting a PB if these are substantially better at getting power down than my old SPD shoes.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby richbee » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:11 pm
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby Baalzamon » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:41 pm
Shame my feet and Bonts didn't like one another
Tomorrow I'm getting my scott premium road shoes setup with speedplay cleats and they should see a speed increase as well
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby vander » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:30 pm
Not not really. I would say not at all the shoes dont affect your efficency too much. The real benefit should be in a sprint where there are greater forces, but even that I doubt will be significant.richbee wrote:You'll probably find the perfomance increase is greater on a longer segment than a shorter. On a short segment fatigue may not be a factor, but on a longer segment the greater stiffness of the carbon soled shoes and the wider platform will reduce fatigue levels which is where the road shoe wins out on the more pliable commuter shoe.
Its a lot of marketing using speeds and not things like power and VO2 mean that you are pretty much guessing anyway.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sb944 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:40 pm
I was riding the other direction to my segments and thinking the wind was spot on, but it was a little off once I got there, still blowing in my face more than when it's right behind, when I usually get my PB's. I got my freeway sprint in, and a PB it was, 2:14 for 4th spot, 2 seconds quicker than previous best. My feelings were maybe not a PB, I just wasn't really getting the float thing, and wasn't used to the feeling when you stand up. Rested up before the next big sprint hill, and didn't get a PB there, same as Monday 4 seconds down. I will say I got a couple of strong blasts of headwind near the top of the steep bit, but either way, didn't improve at all on Mondays efforts. I do have another segment I have spirited runs on, and managed to equal my PB there too, with a poor take off from lights, and the PB was set without having to stop at the lights, so I was pleased with that.
The rest of the ride was as I mentioned, feet felt wonderful, but the slipping sensation was annoying. What I haven't mentioned is standing up, this felt incredible. I got the greatest pleasure just standing up on the pedals, you feel like you are on top of the world compared with before. The other big thing was after the ride. I was eating dinner and noticed how relaxed my feet were, rather than the stretched stressed feeling they usually have after a ride.
So if nothing else I'm thrilled with the shoes, even if performance increase is still yet to be determined. Tomorrow I'll hopefully have a crack at the national park 5km stretch.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby _mike_ » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:39 am
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:48 am
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby rdp_au » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:48 am
That's a shame - just last night I picked up a new pair of fancy carbon shoes to replace my worn out commuting shoes. Was hoping for an immediate performance boost. Does this mean it won't happen?sogood wrote:Pseudo-science defined.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:56 am
LOL!rdp_au wrote:That's a shame - just last night I picked up a new pair of fancy carbon shoes to replace my worn out commuting shoes. Was hoping for an immediate performance boost. Does this mean it won't happen?
Only if it's more aero. And then, the speed difference will be so small that it's not perceivable. As others suggested, comfort on long rides will mean you can sustain your power a tad longer. It's about the rider and the bling.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sb944 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:22 am
From the website I bought these from, first line of the description:
Focus on the pedaling efficiency: Expressed as Power to The Pedal
Sounds GREAT.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:53 am
How does one focus on pedaling efficiency? Where's Alex?sb944 wrote:From the website I bought these from, first line of the description:
Focus on the pedaling efficiency: Expressed as Power to The Pedal
Sounds GREAT.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby vbplease » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:31 am
I agree.. I also think it’s a definite factor. As the old saying goes “when you look good, you feel good” and when you feel good you go fastersogood wrote:Placebo is a wonderful thing!
The only true way of measuring the difference between cheap plastic shoes and stiff carbon soles is with a power metre which would gauge the energy losses caused by the flex of the sole. Without doing it, I’d be willing to bet it would be less than 2% difference..
The variance in wind, physical form that day (fatigue from previous exercise and energy from what you previously ate) would have a much bigger difference.
I’ve been interested in getting the Mavic Huez shoes (hopefully $200 on ebay), so I read a few reviews.. one kid reckons he got a 12% power output increase. I very much doubt he was using a power metre.. perhaps his last shoes were a pair of freebie VB thongs thrown in with a carton? I’m still keen to get the Mavics just because they look so awesome in bright yellow
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby TDC » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:11 pm
vbplease wrote:I agree.. I also think it’s a definite factor. As the old saying goes “when you look good, you feel good” and when you feel good you go fastersogood wrote:Placebo is a wonderful thing!
The only true way of measuring the difference between cheap plastic shoes and stiff carbon soles is with a power metre which would gauge the energy losses caused by the flex of the sole. Without doing it, I’d be willing to bet it would be less than 2% difference..
The variance in wind, physical form that day (fatigue from previous exercise and energy from what you previously ate) would have a much bigger difference.
I’ve been interested in getting the Mavic Huez shoes (hopefully $200 on ebay), so I read a few reviews.. one kid reckons he got a 12% power output increase. I very much doubt he was using a power metre.. perhaps his last shoes were a pair of freebie VB thongs thrown in with a carton? I’m still keen to get the Mavics just because they look so awesome in bright yellow
It's a huge thrill when you get that massive performance boost from an expensive piece of equipment you bought.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:25 pm
Bling bling credit... Priceless!TDC wrote:It's a huge thrill when you get that massive performance boost from an expensive piece of equipment you bought.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby sb944 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:52 pm
2 seconds from 2:16 is inconclusive, but 12% would be plainly obvious with these tests, and I think you can already rule that out. I think even 5% would be plainly obvious by this time next week, as I'd have to have decent PB's on everything I tried, after a few runs each. I couldn't do that without some equipment change in only 1 week.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby Xplora » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:35 pm
So much for control groups huh? LOL
The change was seriously intense.
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby burger » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:17 pm
and that is as good a reason as any!vbplease wrote:I’m still keen to get the Mavics just because they look so awesome in bright yellow
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Re: Shoe upgrade performance test
Postby TDC » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:39 pm
With regards to the Mavic shoes, I have read that the cleat placement has limited rearward adjustment. If you like your cleats set back, they might not be suitable. It could pay to investigate before you drop the $. Plenty of threads about it on other forums.burger wrote:and that is as good a reason as any!vbplease wrote:I’m still keen to get the Mavics just because they look so awesome in bright yellow
http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blo ... -are-best/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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