Quality of Tubular Tires

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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby Krank » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:41 am

ironhanglider wrote:I don't use sealants since I prefer to patch them...



Do you actually unsew the tire and patch the tube - roadside?

What patch system do you use?


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by BNA » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:14 pm

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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:14 pm

Krank wrote:Thanks for detailed response.

1. Why are clincher tires perceived to handle glass strewn roads better tubs?

2. Will the extra weight of sealant inside the tubes of tubular tires adversely affect the rolling resistance of tubs?

3. How do repair your tub flat roadside? It was not clear how you do this

Krank


1. They don't. However it is easier to deal with a puncture.

2. Theoretically yes, but it's a very small difference. The extra weight for no benefit (unless you puncture) is with you always however.

3. Pull tyre off, put spare on, inflate, ride on. In theory you don't need any glue at all for normal cornering forces since the forces between the rim and the road are still within the width of the rim. I'm not going to test that theory however. Where the theory comes unstuck (pun intended) is where you make the wheel move sideways such as when you hit a bump or ground a pedal. The extra sideways loading will simply pop an insufficiently glued tyre off. When you pull a tyre off there is still enough glue left behind to provide reasonable grip and to 'activate' the old glue on the spare. I would still recommend riding conservatively on the spare though.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:23 pm

Krank wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:I don't use sealants since I prefer to patch them...



Do you actually unsew the tire and patch the tube - roadside?

What patch system do you use?


Krank


No. Patching and sewing is an at-home job. I use regular patches and glue, although a slight variation of putting the patch on while the glue is wet is required for latex tubes. Note that I try to minimise the likelihood of punctures, so I haven't had to do that too often. Sewing the tyre back together requires a little skill and a strong needle. I still haven't found the perfect glue to reattach the base tape though. Latex solution is apparently the stuff to use, but it is hard to find.

If you get good at patching you might be able to acquire tyres as discards from others, although apparently the sealants make it very difficult to patch them.

BTW my favourite patches are made by Weldtite - Cure-C-Cure they are thin and flexible and I have good results with them.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby Krank » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:12 pm

Thanks.

How do you minimise the likelihood of punctures?


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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby brit_in_oz » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:19 pm

Like any tyre punctures will happen with incorrect inflation and running over objects. That being said you can't really pinch flat a tub so thats one benefit. Latex tubes stretch more than butyl, so even if you get a penetration it wont always puncture. i have had glass in and its just the very tip caused a hole, in a butyl clincher it would have been a 2-3mm repair.
As tubs are round they roll better than clinchers as the side wall does not flop around on corners, once you have riden them you will appreciate the great ride from them, they just glide over the surface, especially good quality 320tpi casing tubs like conti comp and vittoria pro.

As for preventing flats, well its not really possible as you cant use tyre liners etc. Sealant can help seal a hole, but it solidifies over time having to be re-topped up, and if used infrequently can cure in a lump at the bottom of the tyre causing roundness problems. Personally i use a unglued spare and no sealant. tried pit stop, it nearly works but not quite so was a waste of 20 bucks.

I am sure you will enjoy them, they are better riding than clinchers, even if not as easy to change

PS get a stitching awl, best way of repairing tubs.
Don't mistake lack of talent for genius
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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby Krank » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:24 pm

what compromise in riding do u experience after u install an unglued spare and no sealant?

i thought a glued spare was critical?

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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby Abby » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:29 am

Just a quick anecdote.

I'm a tubular newbie, and have a set of tubbies pre-stretching on my first set of tubular wheels, ready for gluing (hopefully this weekend).

What surprised me is how secure the tyres are when they are pumped up!! There is absolutely no glue on either the tyres or the rims (both brand spanking new), and when the tyre is pumped up it is already pretty well secure on the rim...

I always imagined that they would 'slip off' really easiy without glue. It has certainly blown away my preconceived ideas, and made me much more relaxed about the quality of the gluing required to make a 'secure bond'...

Cheers,
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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby Krank » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:39 pm

GOOD NEWS

i will be buying the enve sms 6.7's tubulars shortly and start my journey into tubulars.

i have read enough on the net and spoken to alot of users to convince me.

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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby ironhanglider » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:45 pm

Krank wrote:Thanks.

How do you minimise the likelihood of punctures?


Krank


As I said before, these are race only wheels for me which means that the roads I ride on tend to be on quiet country roads. In club racing there are over 100 people riding the same road and there are few if any punctures. I strongly suspect that most of the punctures are caused from a piece of glass that was already in the tyre before the rider came to the course. I check my tyres for embedded glass, before and after each race, and I also wipe my tyres periodically while I am riding, at least when I go through a dodgy patch.

Whilst some argue that tyre wiping is ineffective and a waste of time and even dangerous, I disagree. On at least one occasion I have felt a bit that didn't flick out against my fingers so I stopped and dug it out before it caused a flat. I regularly feel bits dislodge when I do wiping, we can only speculate whether they would have been dislodged anyway. However some caution is advised particularly with the rear tyre, getting your finger caught between tyre and down tube or brake is no laughing matter.

Glad to hear that you are going down the tubular route. Bear in mind that even though they can often take silly-high pressure (170 psi or more) one of the real advantages of tubulars is being able to ride lower than normal pressures. This really comes to the fore when on a rough surface. One of the roads we raced on was re-sealed for quite a length with what seemed to be the coarsest aggregate available. It was a beautiful feeling being able to float over that surface with my tyres at 100/110psi (I weigh 105kg+) whilst riding next to little 60kg pipsqueaks with their tyres at 110/120psi who were getting shaken to bits. (A bit of pre-race reconnaissance helped with the pressure decision).

Just one more nice thing about tubulars is that they work really well with CO2 cartridges when you are in a hurry. If you make a mistake when installing a tube by the roadside you will find out very quickly with a cartridge, as will anyone within 200m. A tubular simply inflates in a second and you're off.

As with Abby's experience, pressure is enough to hold a tubular on in most situations. I have known at least one bloke who bought a wheel with a tubular on and simply assumed that it was glued who happily raced on it for some time before discovering to his horror that there was no glue on it at all. A roadside replacement is much better in comparison. As for pre-glued spares, if your spare is new you can put a layer of glue on the tape, leave it to touch dry then fold it flat and press the base tape together, then you can fold it up into whatever configuration works for you.

Hope you don't have to use it until your rear tyre is worn out. :)
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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby Krank » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:53 pm

thanks for your detailed response.

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Re: Quality of Tubular Tires

Postby bosvit » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:08 pm

Yep thanks guys great thread lots of good info 8)
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