Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby bychosis » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:14 pm

outnabike wrote:
arkle wrote:
outnabike wrote:I see a parking place for a couple of cars on the left.


He'd probably seen the bike behind him and decided not to risk turning straight into the space in case the cyclist came up the inside and hit the car, and he deliberately stayed out in the road to give the cyclist enough room to come up the inside. If I'd been driving the car I'd have done the same things. You can't safely turn directly across a cyclist's path even if you've indicated in good time.

arkle


Hi arkle, Fair comment but you just don't know what was in his head do you? The choice of that word "probably", says we don't know much about the drivers thought process.
I reckon there is to much credit being given to the motorist.

He saw the cyclist, he thought the cyclist may go around on the left, he was being courteous. All assumptions of good will.

But what did the cyclist see, a bloke who stopped in the middle of the road and seemed confused. There is not enough of putting ourselves into the position of the cyclist.

If you stand back and really just watch motorists in action you will see this sort of process all the time, and there can be no motorist in sight.


The space was big enough to drive into, but not big enough for two cars.
The predictable thing to do would be to indicate to park, decide not to nose in, then move beside the car in front to reverse park. Like in many situations doing omething unpredictable causes problems.
I probably should not have passed the car when I did, but felt it was that or falling over clip stack style.
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by BNA » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:19 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby arkle » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:19 pm

He didn't look confused to me but how then would we know anyway? It pretty sad that you're casting the motorist as guilty until proven innocent. And for goodness sake go and drive in the UK for a few weeks - the level of cooperation there is embarrassing. They fall over themselves to let you in, let you out, give you room, double flash, thankful wave, happy smile. Someone indicates and slows carefully to a halt and a cyclist rides safely around him and you shout abuse at him and get your knickers in a twist. Self-righteous and adversarial.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:23 pm

rosscojj wrote:I got left hooked heading back into town today after a nice ride out to the local res. I was taking it slow through this section as it is dangerous for dooring. Lucky I just saw the blinker out of the corner of my eye and hit the brakes hard. Quick detour through KFC to see if he stopped.

********Language Warning********


http://youtu.be/G7qhRuKCp4M


That's a terrible bike lane - soon as I saw it, I thought about dooring!

You got lucky there. When will they realise that this wont suffice as a safe bike lane?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby zero » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:49 pm

outnabike wrote:
Hi arkle, Fair comment but you just don't know what was in his head do you? The choice of that word "probably", says we don't know much about the drivers thought process.
I reckon there is to much credit being given to the motorist.

He saw the cyclist, he thought the cyclist may go around on the left, he was being courteous. All assumptions of good will.

But what did the cyclist see, a bloke who stopped in the middle of the road and seemed confused. There is not enough of putting ourselves into the position of the cyclist.



Anytime I see a VW golf hesitate before reverse parking I think the driver is engaging auto parking assist. Anytime I see a VW golf owner make their park more difficult than someone who parks their car themselves would, then I know they have parking assist.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Howzat » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:58 pm

Aushiker wrote:It my "favourite" roundabout. I am so used to this behavior now that I had already slowed down expecting at least an over the line the stop which is the norm. I am pretty sure this guy didn't even look which is why he drove straight through.


He didn't see you, or thought he could beat you through the roundabout. There seems to be a fair bit of scrub to the left obscuring the view as well. Were you running headlights?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby outnabike » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:03 pm

arkle wrote:He didn't look confused to me but how then would we know anyway? It pretty sad that you're casting the motorist as guilty until proven innocent. And for goodness sake go and drive in the UK for a few weeks - the level of cooperation there is embarrassing. They fall over themselves to let you in, let you out, give you room, double flash, thankful wave, happy smile. Someone indicates and slows carefully to a halt and a cyclist rides safely around him and you shout abuse at him and get your knickers in a twist. Self-righteous and adversarial.

arkle

Sorry mate I thought I was just making a point.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hannos » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:13 pm

Howzat wrote:
Aushiker wrote:It my "favourite" roundabout. I am so used to this behavior now that I had already slowed down expecting at least an over the line the stop which is the norm. I am pretty sure this guy didn't even look which is why he drove straight through.

There seems to be a fair bit of scrub to the left obscuring the view as well. Were you running headlights?


Which means that motorist should have been going slower to ensure the way was clear.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:45 pm

g-boaf wrote:[

That's a terrible bike lane - soon as I saw it, I thought about dooring!


+1, with all those cars parked there, there's no way i'd be riding in the bike 'lane'.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:10 pm

Howzat wrote:He didn't see you, or thought he could beat you through the roundabout. There seems to be a fair bit of scrub to the left obscuring the view as well. Were you running headlights?


No headlight ... Based on experience and they way he was driving I doubt he even looked. BTW I was about two to three seconds into the roundabout before he reached the give-way line. Struggling to see any justification for his behaviour at all.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mrfenejeans » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:50 am

Is that where West Coast Drive ends in Trigg??
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:52 am

Mrfenejeans wrote:Is that where West Coast Drive ends in Trigg??


Thats the one.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Howzat » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:36 am

No there's no justification for driving like that. He needed to slow down and look. If he was in something smaller than a Territory, I daresay he might have.

Personally I run lights during the day though, for percentage.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:30 am

Summernight wrote:Finally worked out how to upload to Youtube (although the video quality compared to the file on my computer is terrible):

This was the incident on the 6th.



Took Albert St on me way to the Boulevarde yesterday, poor design to the nth power. It really needs the last two parking spots before each intersection removed to allow more time, space and vision for velos and smokeboxes to work out exactly what the Fred each is doing. Seriously, the distance between the end of the green (and parking) and the stop line would be no more than three car lengths. Ideally, the turn lane should be greened and signposted "Left turners give way to bikes".
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:51 am

Mulger bill wrote: Ideally, the turn lane should be greened and signposted "Left turners give way to bikes".


You are speaking of a utopian land, Good Sir, that I doubt will ever exist in this little 'ol town of Melbourne.

And I usually ride Albert Street during the no-parking times - riding down that bicycle lane during parking times with parked cars everywhere would be akin to near suicide if you were going anything above walking pace.

The bike lane after Hoddle Street (when Albert Street turns into Elizabeth Street) has actually been improved IMO with an extra 'buffer' marked lane line between the car lane and the bicycle lane. Of course, I pretty much ride on the buffer line or in the buffer zone so as not to be doored by parked cars on the left, but they did widen the cycling lane and cars predominantly seem to keep more in their lane now because of this extra bright white paint splashed everywhere.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:58 am

Howzat wrote:No there's no justification for driving like that. He needed to slow down and look. If he was in something smaller than a Territory, I daresay he might have.


The previous incident resulting in a TIN for careless driving was a small car ... Its the nature of the location of the roundabout being at the end of a "no exit" road (two exits are into car-parks) and coming off the 80 km/h West Coast Drive.

Personally I run lights during the day though, for percentage.


I have tried it in the past but felt I was not getting a return for the hassle of battery charging. On my dynamo powered bike I do run the lights all day. May need to give it another go.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby wellington_street » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:01 pm

Aushiker wrote:Its the nature of the location of the roundabout being at the end of a "no exit" road (two exits are into car-parks) and coming off the 80 km/h West Coast Drive.


For out of towners, the location is here:
http://goo.gl/maps/GEVfN

There is very very very little traffic that proceeds south, which is the way Aushiker was approaching the roundabout. Motorists coming off West Coast Hwy and turning right are conditioned to rarely having to give way and it's like a surprise for them when they have to do. Bad enough in a car, much worse on a bike.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Howzat » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:00 pm

Yeah I can see how those drivers would be in brain-off freeway mode. Plus the tyre tracks would indicate that quite a lot of them fail to negotiate the roundabout entirely. Or the straight road, for that matter.

Perhaps that explains why lots of them seem to have used the carparks to practice going around in circles. :D
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Big_Red » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:20 am

Interesting commute home tonight - nearly got doored by a passenger alighting from a stationary car that was 6 or 7 cars back from a set of traffic lights, whilst cruising down the road at 30kph+ along the "bike" lane shown here on google maps:

Image

It's clear to me that the passenger opened the door without a thought in their tiny brain about where they were. As the door was thrown open i let out a shouted WHHHHOOOOOOOAAAAAAA!" and was rewarded with a scream which meant i'd successfully scared the living carp out of her - hopefully next time the driver will drop the passenger off somewhere that is NOT ON THE ROAD and the passenger will look before opening her door.

Also had some numpty hold the horn down after i took the leftmost lane just after the Gateway Motorway overpass along Wynnum Rd at Tingalpa, (3 lanes there). Dunno what they where thinking they'd do after getting past me as the traffic was backed up at the next traffic light, 50m down the road. MGIF syndrome i suppose, so i rewarded the git by slowing down. Hand comes off the horn for a second so i resume pedaling, but the horn then comes back on, which prompts another slowdown. I get to the backed up traffic which has only just started to take off from the green, then switch to the "bike" lane and zoom past the stationary cars. Whoever it was with the horn problem doesn't catch up so too bad i guess...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:05 am

"People have a right to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight." -- James W Loewen

http://www.facebook.com/Drive2WorkDay
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:26 am

You should have just fired off a couple of rounds from those two yellow cannons you have sticking out front. :wink:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Toolish » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:15 am

trailgumby wrote:


Nice job on talking it through, even though she still didn't seem to get it!

'How long am I meant to wait?'...love that question, as long as it takes to follow the road rules!
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Summernight » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:05 am

Big_Red wrote:Interesting commute home tonight - nearly got doored by a passenger alighting from a stationary car that was 6 or 7 cars back from a set of traffic lights, whilst cruising down the road at 30kph+ along the "bike" lane shown here on google maps:


Passengers look less for bicycles than the drivers do, IMO. Glad you gave her a scare. I've been hit by a door at low speed from a passenger doing the same thing as your incident (hopping out while the car was waiting at the lights). All I can say is that I'm glad I was going at such a slow speed and merely knocked my hand into the door.

I had a ute pull over the whole bicycle lane in Elizabeth Street, Richmond (the extension of Albert Street) this morning in front of me. I'm laughing at myself now, because the first word that came out of my mouth to him was "DUDE!" and then "Did you even look? Please look next time!". (He clearly didn't look because I saw him not looking)

Dude. Seriously? Who uses 'dude'? Obviously my snazzy emergency brain does. :roll:

And I managed to hold off the e-bike today on the flat (I got up to 35kph)... Until I got to the hill and died and he leisurely passed me... Where there was a lovely Fire Control Services truck parked right in the copenhagen green bicycle lane. Lovely.

trailgumby wrote:

Good try on the road education. Pity she's not going to listen. And those cannons really should be utilised. :roll:
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Crawf » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:15 am

Big_Red wrote:Interesting commute home tonight - nearly got doored by a passenger alighting from a stationary car that was 6 or 7 cars back from a set of traffic lights, whilst cruising down the road at 30kph+ along the "bike" lane shown here on google maps:

Image

It's clear to me that the passenger opened the door without a thought in their tiny brain about where they were. As the door was thrown open i let out a shouted WHHHHOOOOOOOAAAAAAA!" and was rewarded with a scream which meant i'd successfully scared the living carp out of her - hopefully next time the driver will drop the passenger off somewhere that is NOT ON THE ROAD and the passenger will look before opening her door.


You're lucky, on that slight downhill you can pick up some nice speed there.
There was an accident at the intersection pictured last night too, only happened 100m ahead of me, glad I decided to hold back and was coasting-wheelsucking an ebike. The drivers of course decided to block the entire intersection.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:18 am

Summernight wrote:And I managed to hold off the e-bike today on the flat (I got up to 35kph)... Until I got to the hill and died and he leisurely passed me... Where there was a lovely Fire Control Services truck parked right in the copenhagen green bicycle lane. Lovely.


you need one of these Image

45km/h
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:20 am

:roll: Bit of brown trouser action for you Gumby? That was waaaaay too close for comfort.

I've got a set of those cannons (blue) on my lid. Had a taxi overtake me in the middle of a roundabout (over the island) once. When he got to his destination just a few seconds before me less than a minute later I had some fruitless discussions, ending in a mouthful of inbound abuse. I reached up to the trigger and gave him both barrels to the face from less than a metre. His pupils imploded :twisted:
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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