Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Rusty6149 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:59 am

Yet another incident on the Kwinana PSP, about 3kms from the Narrows this morning.

A group of 3 riders, racing towards the city, and overtaking regardless of oncoming traffic and the space available to them. They buzzed me, and I thought, jeez.. pretty close - next thing I know, they are overtaking 2 other cyclists, when the tail ender run out of room, and just cut straight in front of the lady he was overtaking. Nowhere to go, he went over the handle bars and took the 2 other cyclists out. I stopped, and checked that everyone was OK.. they were.

I had words with the rider who caused the accident - funny how he went from arrogant and invincible whilst buzzing other path users, to very sheepish when he realised he had caused the accident - maybe he will modify his behaviour. His two mates - if they were mates, rather than 2 other riders he tagged on to, didn't stop.. probably unaware that the accident had happened, and that they too were partially responsible for the accident.

This bring me to my points..

1. Overtaking - Of course it is neccessary to overtake slower moving traffic.. but it should be done safely, and without risk to either party or oncoming traffic.. the guys that charge along the PSP with no regard to other users, I'm sure wouldn't try that kind of thing in a car, so why is the bike path any different. Slow down, wait for space, and then pass, leaving plenty of room.. and sorry if this means you miss a PB on Strava !

2. If you are involved in or witness an accident, stop and help out - just as you would be required to do if you were in a car. Too many people this morning rode by.. some even complained that there were bikes and people on the track. I hope next time it is not you.

Regards,


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by BNA » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:39 pm

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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby stealthbike » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:39 pm

My wife encountered three idiots this morning, perhaps they got what they deserved??

I had a beef with three guys this morning. The first two, I could hear talking together when they approached. As they were passing me, two abreast I called out, “single line when passing”.

They turned round and told me to. “shut the f… up”.
I then shouted back is was against the law and dangerous.

They then turned and gave me the same.

Finally, I shouted you are making it dangerous for other riders.

Same reply.

I then shouted (but they were out of ear shot by this stage) you wan…..s? I lost it!!! Unfortunately I said it as someone else was passing by.

Anyway, don’t be surprised if I get knocked off my bike on the way home.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Sundy84 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:53 pm

I really dont see the point in trying to tell people the rules. If they cant see that its dangerous to be meeting bikes while taking up over half of the PSP well then I doubt they care about the law.

Actually passed 3 guys on the Kwinana this morning, one was a fat guy cycling over the line, his mate in by the edge with the third one nudging between the two making sure he didnt miss any of the conversation.
I'd love to see the police do a blitz on the PSP for a few days. Even just to give warnings.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Dez » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:02 pm

I rode the Canning Bridge - Narrows section of the PSP on my quick river loop on Saturday morning and saw the same behaviour. I am a triathlete and train on my own. I normally ride exclusively on roads, but Saturday I only wanted to do a 50km loop, so this part of the PSP was perfect for me. I am a fast rider and knew I would come into traffic along this section, I was happy to slow down wait for safe passing opportunities, but I cannot say the same for a heap of other idiots I saw that morning.

The total lack of courtesy and disregard for the safety of others shown by the majority of riders along this section disgusted me. Riding two or three abreast, overtaking on totally blind corners at speed, no effort made to keep to the left, large groups all over the path.

After Saturday's ride i'm not sure I will ever travel along the freeway PSP again. Madness.

Sorry to the few casual cyclists using the path who were monstered by saturday morning coffee club idiots. I am embarrassed by their behaviour and furious at their actions.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby stealthbike » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:20 pm

I really dont see the point in trying to tell people the rules.


I generally agree but with the specific rule about not riding two abreast on a PSP - many cyclists are genuinely unaware of it. They confuse it with their right to ride two abreast on a road.

I don't think it is up to us to educate other riders and I have been calling very loudly for someone to take up an education campaign but nobody seems willing. :(
That said, I still call out to anyone riding two abreast on a PSP.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby MarkG » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:51 pm

One of the advantages I have riding south every day to work is the lack of people (read tools) on the PSP to contend with.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby outnabike » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:31 pm

stealthbike wrote:
I really dont see the point in trying to tell people the rules.


I generally agree but with the specific rule about not riding two abreast on a PSP - many cyclists are genuinely unaware of it. They confuse it with their right to ride two abreast on a road.

I don't think it is up to us to educate other riders and I have been calling very loudly for someone to take up an education campaign but nobody seems willing. :(
That said, I still call out to anyone riding two abreast on a PSP.


+1 stealthbike,
Every time I say some thing to some one, they want a fight.
Ladies , better to say nothing and keep going, Gents if they come at you make a decision and stick with it. Just keep in mind that whatever you say has consequences.....I find it all depends on my mood. But generally I still have to learn to say nothing and keep going.
Most folk know they are doing wrong and simply don;t care. Do you really think that telling a person they need a light will make them put one on? All you will do is start a confrontation.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Sundy84 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:41 pm

I agree. While I don't think its right anybody cursing at your wife stealthbike, I do think if she is willing to start the confrontation she should not be shocked when she gets a negative or aggressive response.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Sprocket » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:54 pm

I agree! Unfortunately it is definitely better to say nothing and I even found out this morning better not to mutter as well. This morning - going around a blind corner on a terminating path into a T-junction - I was out slightly from a slower cyclist, getting ready to overtake her after we had successfully got around the corner and this bloke on a bmx bike with cap on backwards comes tearing around the outside of both us, cutting the corner dangerously and without what even appeared to be any thought of cyclists coming along the top of T section. I muttered "idiot" but unfortunately too loudly and he swung around and tackled me on what I had said. Thought oh well I'm commited now and said "I called you an idiot for cutting that corner". Well that was it - he started abusing me - telling me to F-off you silly witch (except it began with b), etc, etc. Finally he told me to "Get a life you stupid cow", when I retaliated with "well you'll lose yours riding like that" he slammed the brakes on and the clenched fist came of the handlebars. I seriously thought he was going to thump me - but instead he cycled off furiously. I won't be doing any muttering in future!
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby hanzao » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:24 pm

im up for a good bif up..

this saturday i am hosting a ride with the ladies in our club from Joondalup Oscars to Mandurah.. and im very protective of the ladies so i will be swinging if i any s*** comes our way.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby dino1969 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:42 pm

:shock: my daily routine has changed this year as i am doing the school runs now; this morning on my ride in i was thinking about how quiet the paths are as a result as i only start my commute at 08h45, and thus far i have found it to be a very peaceful experience!:P like all things in life these days people spoil it for other people... :evil:what a shermozzle!
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Marty Moose » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:02 pm

Just don't ride on the psp I stay of them as much as possible heaps safer on the road me thinks.

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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby stealthbike » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:10 pm

Just don't ride on the psp I stay of them as much as possible heaps safer on the road me thinks.

Agree but what a sad indictment of the state of cycling in Perth. This completely defeats the point of building PSP's in the first place.
I ride on the road whenever possible but would prefer to ride on a PSP if it were safer and that is why I will keep calling for something to be done about it.
It is rediculous that it more dangerous to ride on a PSP than the road. Why won't the police do anything about enforcement of traffic laws? If they are not enforced why have them?
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Mrfenejeans » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:13 pm

Marty Moose wrote:Just don't ride on the psp I stay of them as much as possible heaps safer on the road me thinks.

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+1, With all the posts relating to accidents and the comments which follow about poor behavior others have witnessed it makes me wonder why anyone steps even their front wheel on a path. I ride (i don't commute)on the road between 3.30pm-7.30pm most week days and while i try and ride against peak hour and ride back when it has dissipated (a luxury commuters can't enjoy), on 99% of rides i have no run ins and have no verbal abuse shouted at me. Although I have to agree with Stealthbike, that a purpose built PSP such as the Kwinana PSP which takes in terrific scenery of the river, should be policed and made safer for all users.

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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Marty Moose » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:44 pm

stealthbike wrote:
Just don't ride on the psp I stay of them as much as possible heaps safer on the road me thinks.

Agree but what a sad indictment of the state of cycling in Perth. This completely defeats the point of building PSP's in the first place.
I ride on the road whenever possible but would prefer to ride on a PSP if it were safer and that is why I will keep calling for something to be done about it.
It is rediculous that it more dangerous to ride on a PSP than the road. Why won't the police do anything about enforcement of traffic laws? If they are not enforced why have them?


I agree Stealth but the whole point is roads are policed and have rules that most follow. Until there is a policing change the road is the safer option, I also can ride two abreast talking to my mates :mrgreen:
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby MarkG » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:48 pm

The moral of the story here..

It's better to take risks with the cars on the roads, than with the d*ckheads on the PSP!
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby uglybob » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:28 pm

MarkG wrote:The moral of the story here..

It's better to take risks with the cars on the roads, than with the d*ckheads on the PSP!


concerning isn't it. i've added 5kms onto my commute just to avoid the city west path, as it was only a matter of time until i was collected by some moron. plus tues / thurs morn on the SOR PSP is insane - won't got near it.

so instead i almost get collect by stupid old woman at roundabouts who don't bother to look before flying through them :roll: can't win either way!
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby sagara0510 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:04 pm

this issue annoys the showtime out of me too. especially when it is club/shop riders who definately should know better

i'm going to name names.

2 weekends ago, 10 or so Cyclemania kitted riders going over the narrows bridge towards the city. riding 2 abreast all the way
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Red Rider » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:06 am

sagara0510 wrote:this issue annoys the showtime out of me too. especially when it is club/shop riders who definately should know better

i'm going to name names.

2 weekends ago, 10 or so Cyclemania kitted riders going over the narrows bridge towards the city. riding 2 abreast all the way

The lanes across the bridge are very wide, I don't see an issue when it is safe to do so.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby sagara0510 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:25 am

wide enough to go 2 abreast both ways? even going up around the corner of the mill point exit up onto the bridge? you've got to be kidding

i guess the rules don't apply when the lanes are a bit wider than normal.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby MarkG » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:36 am

Over the Narrows is sketchy at the best of times, regardless of the width of the lanes.
The combination of fast cyclists, slow cyclists, runners, walkers, pram pushers, and people taking photos up there means there's never and ideal time to ride in the manner that Sagara witnessed..
I've seen those CM guys ride like maniacs many times, north and south of the river..
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby redned » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:56 pm

Red Rider wrote:
sagara0510 wrote:this issue annoys the showtime out of me too. especially when it is club/shop riders who definately should know better

i'm going to name names.

2 weekends ago, 10 or so Cyclemania kitted riders going over the narrows bridge towards the city. riding 2 abreast all the way

The lanes across the bridge are very wide, I don't see an issue when it is safe to do so.


The fact that it is against the law isn't an issue?
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Red Rider wrote:
sagara0510 wrote:this issue annoys the showtime out of me too. especially when it is club/shop riders who definately should know better

i'm going to name names.

2 weekends ago, 10 or so Cyclemania kitted riders going over the narrows bridge towards the city. riding 2 abreast all the way

The lanes across the bridge are very wide, I don't see an issue when it is safe to do so.



Widthwise, perhaps. It is certainly not narrow. However the ramp on at the souther end is a spot that, despite a generous width, is not at all the place to pass.

And everywhere else I advise a bit of extra caution for the simple reasn that it has a higher than usual incidence of transient hazards, mostly glass often is spotted very late. People do have cuase to swerve and deviate in unpredictable ways along there.

I ride the west side of the Narrows almost every day and in busy times. I do see a fair bit of poorly judged passing, especially on the southern ramp.
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Rusty6149 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:07 pm

The Southern Narrows ramp is dodgy in both directions - with some cyclists slowing significantly up the ramp, whilst others are going flat tack. On the downward side, there isn't much of a good sight line until you are past the trees and toilets.

The Northern ramp isn't much better, especially downwards, as there are a lot of cyclists joining from the left, and not judging the gap well with cyclists coming down the ramp pretty fast.

If I did a risk assesment of all the dodgy points on the Kwinana PSP, common sense would stop me from using it altogether - so its lucky that I have no common sense (so my wife says :wink: )
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Re: Another day, another crash - Kwinana PSP

Postby Red Rider » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:24 pm

Overtaking/two-abreast on the south side ramp is very dodge. I'm pretty easy with what people do, as long as it's reasonably safe. Road rules apply. Keep left of the line (all of you, not just your wheel!), only overtake where there is a dashed line and it's clear. The vast majority of the Kwinana PSP from Leach to Narrows is only suitable for single file, especially those going over 25kph, mistakes are amplified at high speed and correcting them in time in the tight confines of two-abreast often aren't possible.
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