Moron Motorists #3

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:28 pm

human909 wrote:Given them a full width DEDICATED lane during peak hour would half the number of lanes available to general traffic.

Get rid of half the cars, put them all in buses and on bikes, treble the road capacity. What a great idea!! :D

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by BNA » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:44 pm

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:44 pm

GeoffInBrisbane wrote:
InTheWoods wrote:I really, really wish there were none of the stupid bicycle awareness zones (aka shoulders with cars parked in them). They are absolutely everywhere in Brisbane. I think they make things more dangerous, as drivers expect you to use them but then you would have to swerve in and out of traffic and you're in the door zone. Just have proper safe bike lanes, or make the left hand lane wide enough to let us share the lane. Or if its not wide enough and its a popular route, paint bicycles in the middle of the lane and have the bicycle awareness zone be the whole lane.



1000x Yes! Get rid of them, all they achieve is making motorists annoyed that cyclists aren't using the bike lanes when they ride at a safe distance from the door zone. HATE THEM!


I always get asked why I ride right on the line. I explain it. Doesn't help
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby oxonabike » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:41 pm

human909 wrote:I respectfully disagree. :)

il padrone wrote:Sharrows sound fine as a concept, but:

1. No legal enforceability.

What needs to be enforced? The right to ride on the road and use the full lane is already allowed for cyclists.

il padrone wrote:2. Confusing in their significance or meaning for many motorists

I would say they are fairly self explanatory. Ie; here there be bikes.


<snip 8< >

So I'll admit it, I had to google this Sharrow thing, and turns out one has just showed up in Cairns - I think.

What happened was that our new 'progressive' council decided that a section of a dedicated cycleway was going to be ripped up and converted into on street car parking. After much protesting by local cycling advocates, a compromised was reached, where the two lane cycleway was narrowed to single lane, for city bound bikes, while outbound cycle traffic joins the one way general traffic what I assume to be a sharrow (please confirm - have posted a vid)

With the Sharrow came a reduced 30 kph speed limit, which is pretty much the speed of most of us that used the old cycleway. The design flaw is that a cyclist must turn across the flow of traffic to regain the dedicated cycleway at the end of the straight that's in the video, so the safest thing to do is ride wide and occupy the lane - at the posted speed limit. Where this falls down is the new speed limit is ignored and not enforced, so I have had idiots overtake me in the vacant car parking spots to the right (phew... back OT!)

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:39 pm

jasonc wrote:
GeoffInBrisbane wrote:
InTheWoods wrote:I really, really wish there were none of the stupid bicycle awareness zones (aka shoulders with cars parked in them). They are absolutely everywhere in Brisbane. I think they make things more dangerous, as drivers expect you to use them but then you would have to swerve in and out of traffic and you're in the door zone. Just have proper safe bike lanes, or make the left hand lane wide enough to let us share the lane. Or if its not wide enough and its a popular route, paint bicycles in the middle of the lane and have the bicycle awareness zone be the whole lane.



1000x Yes! Get rid of them, all they achieve is making motorists annoyed that cyclists aren't using the bike lanes when they ride at a safe distance from the door zone. HATE THEM!


I always get asked why I ride right on the line. I explain it. Doesn't help

Thank Howzat for this pic...
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I've put it on me phone for easy access and have already asked two loud people what they would do in my shoes, they went quiet...
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:28 pm

Those sharrow things are old hat in Sydney. My take on them is they are intended to convery the impression that bikes should not occupy the lane, they should stay left in the gutter where they belong. Certainly that's how drivers here interpret them.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:36 pm

il padrone wrote:
human909 wrote:Given them a full width DEDICATED lane during peak hour would half the number of lanes available to general traffic.

Get rid of half the cars, put them all in buses and on bikes, treble the road capacity. What a great idea!! :D

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I can't fault your logic! :D

However I guess I'm just a little more pessimistic/realistic about what changes are possible in Melbourne. (at least in the next decade or so)
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:40 pm

trailgumby wrote:Those sharrow things are old hat in Sydney. My take on them is they are intended to convery the impression that bikes should not occupy the lane, they should stay left in the gutter where they belong. Certainly that's how drivers here interpret them.

Always going to depend on their appropriate placement, together with public statements about them.


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:04 pm

yeah, Ryde Council has them painted plentifully in the middle of many of their rat runs - relatively enlightened Council, methinks.

Most of the "sharrow" symbols are relatively old.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby DavidS » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:40 am

il padrone wrote:As far as I know the Pigdon St lanes work. I've not ridden it myself but drove along it yesterday. I really think it is overkill (the lane and buffers are wider than a car lane). The buffer between traffic and the lane really does not need to be so wide, as Pigdon is a 40kmh street with such heavy traffic calming on it that you'd never have trouble with close or speeding cars. The Clarendon St lanes are a much more reasonable approach IMHO.


What Clarendon St is that, doesn't look like the one in South Melbourne.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:24 am

Clarendon St, East Melbourne.

The one in South Melbourne apparently has had a rather contentious proposal some years back for kerb-access tram platforms, later dropped. Not sure what has happened, I rarely go down that way.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby othy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:29 pm

trailgumby wrote:yeah, Ryde Council has them painted plentifully in the middle of many of their rat runs - relatively enlightened Council, methinks.

Most of the "sharrow" symbols are relatively old.


In Summer hill, they actually had to put out witches hats the day before, so they'd have clear space to paint the bicycle symbols under the parked cars. It is possibly the dumbest thing I've seen.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby birdbrain » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:42 pm

I won't call her a moron motorist, maybe a senile old motorist. Anyway granny, she must have been around 90 does a right hand turn as I'm approaching in the opposite direction. Head down, crouched over the streering wheel fixated on making the turn and she had no idea that I was even there. Fortunately she was moving so slowly that I had time to manouve around the back of her old gallopy. I'm thinking surely there comes a time when motorists reach a certain age and they need to be retested.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby KonaCommuter » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:43 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Thank Howzat for this pic...
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I've put it on me phone for easy access and have already asked two loud people what they would do in my shoes, they went quiet...




I've downloaded that picture and I will do the same at every opportunity I get. Thanks
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:36 pm

birdbrain wrote:I won't call her a moron motorist, maybe a senile old motorist. Anyway granny, she must have been around 90 does a right hand turn as I'm approaching in the opposite direction. Head down, crouched over the streering wheel fixated on making the turn and she had no idea that I was even there. Fortunately she was moving so slowly that I had time to manouve around the back of her old gallopy. I'm thinking surely there comes a time when motorists reach a certain age and they need to be retested.

In NSW, they are. My Father in Law was just retested recently.

Unfortunately, dementia can push through a critical threshhold and rather suddenly they can go from mildly impaired but coping to being dangerous and no longer fit to drive.

On the other side is the fact that losing access to driving leaves elderly people isolated and unable to cope with everyday tasks like shopping and visiting friends. Not everyone has family around them to manage the transition into assisted living. Most resist it fiercely - retirement homes aren't the nicest places to live: the company is dreadful. Almost your new housemates are more advanced in their dementia than you. Imagine going from being comfortable in your own home to being unable to leave an asylum. Overnight.

Not saying that they should be allowed to continue driving and put themselves and others at risk, just that I have some sympathy for them. Had to put my parents into a home 5 years ago. It was ugly. Mum "checked out" within two months. Dad is still there, and sometiems asks after mum, doesn't remember that she's passed. At least he still remembers who I am. :D
Last edited by trailgumby on Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby queequeg » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:37 pm

trailgumby wrote:yeah, Ryde Council has them painted plentifully in the middle of many of their rat runs - relatively enlightened Council, methinks.

Most of the "sharrow" symbols are relatively old.


I believe Bike North was instrumental in getting Ryde Council to correctly ace the bicycle logos.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:24 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDJr51GukT8&hd=1[/youtube]

This incident occurred on the Esplanade, Scarborugh. First time in a number of years riding along here have I came across a Mr MGIF at all costs.

There is some choice language hence the sound is turned off. When he failed to respond to my yell, you can see me getting closer to the kerb I hit the side of his car with my hand. That didn't go down to well.

At that point he wound down his left window and had his hand waving for me to come alongside for chat. Right, I am really going to put myself in a position where he can have a second go at me, not.

After calling out a couple of times he was being videoed and that a Police report would be made (pointless exercise mind you) he moved on.

There ends another day on Perth roads.

Oh the front handlebar movement is because my little Jumbo HD808 #11 is back on the bars and any movement whilst riding is seriously exaggerated. Hopefully the GoPro Hero3 will not be as bad or I need to smooth our my riding style and the long lead in is for Police reporting purposes not that I am sure there is any point in that now.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Biffidus » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:11 pm

KonaCommuter wrote:I've downloaded that picture and I will do the same at every opportunity I get. Thanks

I showed this pic to a coworker who complains that cyclists don't ride in the bike lane and was told that it was just the angle, there was probably not even a cyclist coming and we should be able to just avoid the doors if they open. Poe's Law in full effect.

Aushiker wrote:Hopefully the GoPro Hero3 will not be as bad or I need to smooth our my riding style and the long lead in is for Police reporting purposes not that I am sure there is any point in that now
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Andrew: Have you considered a different mount location? My initial reaction to both of your incidents at that roundabout was that it didn't seem to be very close. There have been some unusual mount locations (chest mount, rear-facing handlebar mount) in the videos posted to this thread which give a much better feel for the closeness of the incident.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:35 pm

Biffidus wrote:Andrew: Have you considered a different mount location? My initial reaction to both of your incidents at that roundabout was that it didn't seem to be very close. There have been some unusual mount locations (chest mount, rear-facing handlebar mount) in the videos posted to this thread which give a much better feel for the closeness of the incident.


I have used helmet mounts before but not keen on the GoPro on the helmet. The key with the likes of the roundabout (and this is harder in YouTube) is to actually check the timing, look at indicators on the road etc. Easier when you can step through the video which you can do in iMovie/QUicktime etc.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby redned » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:34 am

Biffidus wrote:I showed this pic to a coworker who complains that cyclists don't ride in the bike lane and was told that it was just the angle, there was probably not even a cyclist coming and we should be able to just avoid the doors if they open.


The perversenous of this comment is that of course we will avoid the car doors that we can. Its the ones you can't avoid that get you.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:22 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Biffidus wrote:Andrew: Have you considered a different mount location? My initial reaction to both of your incidents at that roundabout was that it didn't seem to be very close. There have been some unusual mount locations (chest mount, rear-facing handlebar mount) in the videos posted to this thread which give a much better feel for the closeness of the incident.


I have used helmet mounts before but not keen on the GoPro on the helmet. The key with the likes of the roundabout (and this is harder in YouTube) is to actually check the timing, look at indicators on the road etc. Easier when you can step through the video which you can do in iMovie/QUicktime etc.

Andrew

Tried chest mount?

An upside of having on the helmet is that it is much more conspicuous to other road users, especially from behind. Provides a greater disincentive to act like an idiot, it seems.

Downside is the weight on my helmet in addition to the lights, the helmet seems to get rocked around a lot more.
Last edited by trailgumby on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:27 pm

redned wrote:
Biffidus wrote:I showed this pic to a coworker who complains that cyclists don't ride in the bike lane and was told that it was just the angle, there was probably not even a cyclist coming and we should be able to just avoid the doors if they open.


The perversenous of this comment is that of course we will avoid the car doors that we can. Its the ones you can't avoid that get you.

Not to mention that avoiding the suddenly opened car door was what killed James Cross..... and that lady cycling along the waterfront in Aukland :( :roll:
Last edited by il padrone on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Boognoss » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:28 pm

trailgumby wrote: /snip :)
Tried chest mount?


I'm not 100% happy with helmet mount. Good footage but extra weight and the helmet needs to be tight to not move around. Too tight.

How do you find the chest mount for capturing close shaves and other "need to see extreme left or right" type incidents TG?
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:46 pm

I think the chest mount shows the proximity far better than the helmet mount, as the bars being in frame gives an item of known width to compare against. It also provides a view of what's going on with your controls (eg, brakes) that you don't get from the helmet or bars.

The helmet mount shows where I'm looking much better, and is more visible to motorists - better for keeping the idiots at bay. However, I agree with your list of issues - see above.

On the downside, chest mount is noticeably hotter to ride with, especially in the bush where your bike speeds are lower, and it is more prone to catching spray off the front tyre in damp conditions.

Oh, and don't fall off the front of your bike.



Overall, I think I prefer the chest mount, especially off-road. But not by much.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Aushiker » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:29 pm

trailgumby wrote:Tried chest mount?


Would it work on a drop bar?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:57 pm

Here's a comparison video for you Andrew.

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