The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:08 pm

Aushiker wrote:Regulation 265 of the Road Traffic Code makes it clear that the use of mobile phone in this manner is an offence.
Howzat wrote:Regulation 265, sir? But sir surely that's impossible without at least one live chicken and a rabbi?

Wow a quote from a 1990's episode of Red Dwarf. Either you have a scarily good memory or you have been watching late night repeats on ABC 2. Perhaps we should start referring to you as Kryten - sure you have a head like you took your car to the crusher's and forgot to get out, but at least you're not Rimmer
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by BNA » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:40 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:40 pm

Kudos to the lass in the BHPBiliton jersey who was riding down William St (Perth) this morning, behaving as traffic. I saw her obey 3 different red lights, even when three other (lycra-clad, not hipster) cyclists came flying past her on the wrong side of the road and through the red light amongst the mass of pedestrians trying to cross. She's a shining example of how all road users should behave.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby DavidS » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:06 pm

Percrime wrote:Sigh.
Oh ok yesterdays effort> Im going down Koornang Creek to DISC. Bloke in front on right. standing beside path. Pram parked on path. small kid in front of pram.



I remember many years ago driving a tram through Bourke St Mall. I'm dinging the bell at this lady with a pram. She just keeps looking at me and does nothing. She wasn't blocking the tram tracks, but the pram with her baby was. Sometimes you really do wonder.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Percrime » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:43 pm

Yeah well the converse to "won't someone think of the children' is that you don't have to be smart to get pregnant or get someone else pregnant. Stupid people and every mammal of the planet and most other forms of complex life manage it all the time
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:05 pm

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:28 pm

Lessons to be learned on both sides there :roll:

In particular, for the camera-operator:
1. Overtake on the right-hand side. It's the law, certainly in Australia,
2. Be very wary of passing to the left of stationary vehicles - in the case of that van, I would not have gone there. Safer to pass on his right then merge in ahead.

The guy carrying the sleeping bag? Well he was just "asleep at the wheel" - a silly tosser with a limited life expectancy.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:47 pm

To the cyclist coming up to the Anzac Bridge, sure you proved could overtake the pedestrian squeezing between her & me with millimeters to spare, but was it really necessary for the 1/2 a second you saved ?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:03 pm

I reckon riding in runners is the dead give-away, find_bruce :lol: Newbie who thinks he's too important to slow for anyone else.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby VRE » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:10 am

While I was heading west along Cotham Rd about 5:30am, a bunch of 4 cyclists turned right onto the road from Ridgeway Ave, completely ignoring me and cutting me off at close range (2 of them were actually right next to me after the turn, and the other 2 immediately in front of me), then just after this turned left into Glenferrie Rd, cutting me off again. This just proves that you can have a nice road bike and ride in a bunch, and still be an idiot with no conception of how to follow the road rules.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:49 am

find_bruce wrote:To the cyclist coming up to the Anzac Bridge, sure you proved could overtake the pedestrian squeezing between her & me with millimeters to spare, but was it really necessary for the 1/2 a second you saved ?
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il padrone wrote:I reckon riding in runners is the dead give-away, find_bruce :lol: Newbie who thinks he's too important to slow for anyone else.


And he's wearing earphones AND... *le gasp*... Is that a bare chest? Oo la la. :lol:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby find_bruce » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:36 am

Il padrone, he was way to confident to be a newbie, but yes way too important to slow down, cause pedestrians never stray off their line at all. I thought the combination of bib shorts, team kit & runners was a bit odd. Summernight, doesn't do it for me, but I'll take your word for it.

I normally don't have much to complain about, but it has been a bit of a week. This monring was a meanderthal - apparently the signs every 300 m & painted symbols every 100m, including the one she is about to step on, wasn't enough to indicate that this was a bike path. A loud whistle had no effect. The unmistakable squeal of brakes being applied hard however did elicit the response of "sorry, sorry, <rude word>" coupled with movement.

One of the things I like about this camera angle on this bike is that you can see the brakes being applied
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby AKO » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:53 am

Gotta put my hand up as the dumb cyclist yesterday. While approaching a round about to go straight, I moved off the shoulder into the lane behind a silver SUV. As we approached, another silver SUV travelling the opposite direction turned right in front of us without indicating. The car in front of me had to brake suddenly which forced me to grab two fists full of brake, but being that it was raining and I was following closer than I should for the conditions, I had to manoeuvre up the left of the car in front to avoid rear ending it. If that wasn't bad enough the car in front of me turns left without indicating nearly taking me out in the process, at least that's what I thought till I got home and viewed the GoPro footage clearly showing the left hand indicator being on for a good 10 metres before the round about. Still don't know how I missed it. :oops:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:49 am

Slowed down behind a casual commuter on the on-road lane this morning, it unsafe to overtake as the traffic was stationary and there just wasn't room. The traffic started to move, the commuter I was following started to slow and move into a driveway to exit the on-road lane, I started to move right so I could accelerate... when suddenly a bike went down the outside of me at speed squeezing between myself and the car I was next to. Within 20 seconds I had overtaken him, given him a piece of my mind, and another 200m up the road got stopped by a red traffic light and had the opportunity to give him a real serve.

His excuse? "I would have crashed into the back of you if I hadn't overtaken". Maybe, just maybe, given how angry I was, he might give it a second thought next time.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby wellington_street » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:56 am

twizzle wrote:His excuse? "I would have crashed into the back of you if I hadn't overtaken".


Brilliant!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:51 pm

twizzle wrote:Slowed down behind a casual commuter on the on-road lane this morning, it unsafe to overtake as the traffic was stationary and there just wasn't room. The traffic started to move, the commuter I was following started to slow and move into a driveway to exit the on-road lane, I started to move right so I could accelerate... when suddenly a bike went down the outside of me at speed squeezing between myself and the car I was next to. Within 20 seconds I had overtaken him, given him a piece of my mind, and another 200m up the road got stopped by a red traffic light and had the opportunity to give him a real serve.

His excuse? "I would have crashed into the back of you if I hadn't overtaken". Maybe, just maybe, given how angry I was, he might give it a second thought next time.


Sounds like we need indicators on bikes. :D
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:35 am

To the lady riding in a black and white dress on Albert Street, East Melbourne this morning, yes you looked very chic and lovely, but when you are riding all over the Copenhagen lane at 15 kph and not being aware of your surroundings (and the cyclists who do ride faster that you who would like to pass) then I would expect you NOT to be wearing earpods with the volume up so loud that I could clearly hear what radio station you were listening to from over 4 metres away. I would like to pass you without having to veer into the car lane to do so, thank you very much.

I did shout 'passing' very loudly from behind you about 3-4 times with no discernible effect and ended up having to go into the car lane anyway.
That was why I was pointing at my ears at the lights and shaking my head at you. :roll:

And to the cyclist in front of me who also tried to pass this lady and went into the car lane to do so, I apologise for sounding like an idiot saying to you that all you have to do is tell the female cyclist that you are passing and she'll move over. She clearly couldn't hear anything except her radio station so no amount of calling would have worked.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:54 am

outnabike wrote:
twizzle wrote:Slowed down behind a casual commuter on the on-road lane this morning, it unsafe to overtake as the traffic was stationary and there just wasn't room. The traffic started to move, the commuter I was following started to slow and move into a driveway to exit the on-road lane, I started to move right so I could accelerate... when suddenly a bike went down the outside of me at speed squeezing between myself and the car I was next to. Within 20 seconds I had overtaken him, given him a piece of my mind, and another 200m up the road got stopped by a red traffic light and had the opportunity to give him a real serve.

His excuse? "I would have crashed into the back of you if I hadn't overtaken". Maybe, just maybe, given how angry I was, he might give it a second thought next time.


Sounds like we need indicators on bikes. :D

Simple rear view mirror may have helped here.

This does highlight one thing however. As described by twizzle, any legal conflict would place a big slab of fault on him. We need to be aware of our surroundings and indicate any changes from a line..... line not lane... and give way. All of us are susceptible to this error (I know I am) as it is just so easy to dodge around an obstruction or a slow rider.

Not excusing the overtaking rider's prattishness, of course.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby herzog » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:13 pm

il padrone wrote:We need to be aware of our surroundings and indicate any changes from a line..... line not lane... and give way.


I'm not sure this is right. My understanding is that as a cyclist you "own" the lane you are in and are perfectly entitled to move about within the lane as required by the conditions (eg avoiding glass or potholes). This is what the notion of "taking the lane" is based on.

It is up to those passing to either change lanes completely or pass you safely within your lane (cyclists only) at THEIR responsibility.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:14 pm

Summernight wrote:To the lady riding in a black and white dress on Albert Street, East Melbourne this morning, yes you looked very chic and lovely, but when you are riding all over the Copenhagen lane at 15 kph and not being aware of your surroundings (and the cyclists who do ride faster that you who would like to pass) then I would expect you NOT to be wearing earpods with the volume up so loud that I could clearly hear what radio station you were listening to from over 4 metres away. I would like to pass you without having to veer into the car lane to do so, thank you very much.

I did shout 'passing' very loudly from behind you about 3-4 times with no discernible effect and ended up having to go into the car lane anyway.
That was why I was pointing at my ears at the lights and shaking my head at you. :roll:

And to the cyclist in front of me who also tried to pass this lady and went into the car lane to do so, I apologise for sounding like an idiot saying to you that all you have to do is tell the female cyclist that you are passing and she'll move over. She clearly couldn't hear anything except her radio station so no amount of calling would have worked.


I agree yelling at another road user for going too slow in the lane they are legally allowed to travel in is not acceptable. I am also curious about this so called car lane...

What is needed in getting more people, more women and more 'chic' on bikes is to remove the aggression, danger and stress that cycling amongst fast moving traffic creates! So here you come along and harass a cycling who is commuting at a leisurely pace. THIS IS NOT COOL! :evil:

Surely you expect cars to pass you safely without abuse? Surely you expect cars to give you 1m+? Then why should this lady cyclist not deserve it when riding down the Copenhagen lane? Your complaint baffles me.
Last edited by human909 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:34 pm

human909 wrote:I agree yelling at another road user for going too slow in the lane they are legally allowed to travel in is not acceptable.


:P

I think you may have misinterpreted my post (or I may have written it poorly).
I was not yelling at the female cyclist in a dress that they are going too slowly - I was indicating with my voice that I would like to pass in a safe manner ie. I said "Passing" (I haven't passed at that point, merely indicating that I'd like to pass). All I said to her was "Passing". She did not respond due to her headphones and loud music.

And I was indicating to the male cyclist in front of me who attempted to pass this female cyclist in a dress (prior to my attempt) that she might respond better and move across (as she was veering around) if he used his voice (which he wasn't doing). I was at no point telling someone off for going slowly.

You can go as slowly as you like in the lane, as long as you are aware of your surroundings and passing vehicles, which she clearly wasn't. This copenhagen lane is perfectly wide enough to allow two cyclists abreast for a passing manoeuvre without either cyclist having to move into the vehicle lane (and I have been passed countless times when I myself am going slowly in this exact lane). But only if said cyclists are aware it is going on. She wasn't aware of her surroundings at all so we passed her when it was safe to do so for all parties, which included using the next lane.

Albert Street has bollards between the bicycle lane and the normal 'vehicle' lane so it isn't an easy matter of just moving wide like you may be assuming.

human909 wrote:I am also curious about this so called car lane...

And yes, you are right, it is a normal lane, but since the copenhagen lane is separated (with bollards), in order to try and give an accurate indication to those reading this thread of the difference in lanes, that is what I have termed it. You are correct, it is a vehicle lane, for use by all vehicles.

EDIT: To address your further comments that were added into your post:

human909 wrote:So here you come along and harass a cycling who is commuting at a leisurely pace. THIS IS NOT COOL! :evil:

Surely you expect cars to pass you safely without abuse?


At no point did anybody harrass anyone or abuse anyone. She wasn't aware of either of us until we were in front of her (due to her loud music) and both of us passed her safely. Do you like when pedestrians wear headphones and loud music and don't hear your polite ding of the bell/use of voice indicating your presence when on a shared pathway?

How is me pointing at my ears when we were stopped at the lights, referring to the fact that she couldn't hear a THING due to her loud music, harrassment???

Of course I expect cars to safely pass me without abuse and that is exactly what we did to her. No abuse, no crashes, all happy.

Riding with loud music in both ears on the road = EXTREMELY DUMB.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:47 pm

I agree that two cyclists can pass safely in the Copenhagen lane. However it is a narrow space for doing so. It is often not possible for two cyclists to pass each other while leaving 1m+ space between bikes and outer edge of the lane. I would argue that if she feels it necessary to sit in the middle of the lane then that is her prerogative. I would argue the same thing about a typical width vehicle lane in which a cyclist choose the centre line.

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I would say that "That was why I was pointing at my ears at the lights and shaking my head at you. :roll: " would not have left a positive feeling in her mind.


I'm not religious but the who "do unto others...." springs to mind. We don't like motorists expressing their frustration, lady cyclists probably don't appreciate fast cyclists expressing frustration at their moderate pace.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:53 pm

human909 wrote:I agree that two cyclists can pass safely in the Copenhagen lane. However it is a narrow space for doing so. It is often not possible for two cyclists to pass each other while leaving 1m+ space between bikes and outer edge of the lane. I would argue that if she feels it necessary to sit in the middle of the lane then that is her prerogative. I would argue the same thing about a typical width vehicle lane in which a cyclist choose the centre line.

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I would say that "That was why I was pointing at my ears at the lights and shaking my head at you. :roll: " would not have left a positive feeling in her mind.


I'm not religious but the who "do unto others...." springs to mind. We don't like motorists expressing their frustration, lady cyclists probably don't appreciate fast cyclists expressing frustration at their moderate pace.


You have misinterpreted again - my hand movement (pointing at my ears clearly meaning the headphones) was to say that wearing earphones on the road is dumb. Nothing to do with pace. But then again, I guess everyone can misinterpret anything.

I would probably also tell off a cyclist who goes through a red light. Does that leave a bad taste in your mouth?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:01 pm

human909 wrote:I would argue that if she feels it necessary to sit in the middle of the lane then that is her prerogative.

come on H he was clear that she was "veering around", not just sitting in the middle of the lane (which would be fine, in my view).

veering around is not OK though, no more than it is OK for cars to veer around. you need to hold your line. or at least, be able to respond when someone calls out that they're passing.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby KenGS » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:06 pm

Summernight wrote:
human909 wrote:I agree that two cyclists can pass safely in the Copenhagen lane. However it is a narrow space for doing so. It is often not possible for two cyclists to pass each other while leaving 1m+ space between bikes and outer edge of the lane. I would argue that if she feels it necessary to sit in the middle of the lane then that is her prerogative. I would argue the same thing about a typical width vehicle lane in which a cyclist choose the centre line.

Image

I would say that "That was why I was pointing at my ears at the lights and shaking my head at you. :roll: " would not have left a positive feeling in her mind.


I'm not religious but the who "do unto others...." springs to mind. We don't like motorists expressing their frustration, lady cyclists probably don't appreciate fast cyclists expressing frustration at their moderate pace.


You have misinterpreted again - my hand movement (pointing at my ears clearly meaning the headphones) was to say that wearing earphones on the road is dumb. Nothing to do with pace. But then again, I guess everyone can misinterpret anything.

I would probably also tell off a cyclist who goes through a red light. Does that leave a bad taste in your mouth?

Now don't get him started on THAT! :lol:

Reflecting on the "Copenhagen" lanes (I hate that term) they are aimed at the less confident rider. The sort who wants to ride their bike at low speed in a carefree manner. So I'm not surprised at someone riding in the middle of the lane with earphones on. Unfortunately, the law mandates that all cyclists use the lane "if practicable" regardless of their confidence. In that context the lanes on Albert St are simply too narrow. I would not expect anyone to ride in or close to the gutter there due to the dangers of people entering the lane from the footpath. Anyone a sensible distance from the gutter leaves inadequate passing space - especially with the bollards and car doors on the right.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Summernight » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:38 pm

KenGS wrote:Now don't get him started on THAT! :lol:

Reflecting on the "Copenhagen" lanes (I hate that term) they are aimed at the less confident rider. The sort who wants to ride their bike at low speed in a carefree manner. So I'm not surprised at someone riding in the middle of the lane with earphones on. Unfortunately, the law mandates that all cyclists use the lane "if practicable" regardless of their confidence. In that context the lanes on Albert St are simply too narrow. I would not expect anyone to ride in or close to the gutter there due to the dangers of people entering the lane from the footpath. Anyone a sensible distance from the gutter leaves inadequate passing space - especially with the bollards and car doors on the right.


Red light = GO? Is THAT what I've been doing wrong - going on the green? :lol:

Good thing about the morning peak and going uphill on Albert Street is that there are no parked cars along there (clearway at that time) so no chance of dooring and more room for everyone - including passing cyclists. There is sometimes even space in the vehicle lane on the other side of the bollards to move when the cars are stuck in traffic, although dooring could occur if you use that area.

Pretty much the only time I ride up/down that street is during the clearway times and I would not pass another bicycle in the bicycle lane when there were cars parked as dooring and people jumping out from both sides are a real concern.

Cyclists happy for you to overtake will clearly indicate this willingness. The others who don't respond or obviously aren't confident don't get overtaken in the bicycle lane. All are happy if everyone is aware of their surroundings.

jules21 wrote:come on H he was clear that she was "veering around", not just sitting in the middle of the lane (which would be fine, in my view).

veering around is not OK though, no more than it is OK for cars to veer around. you need to hold your line. or at least, be able to respond when someone calls out that they're passing.


That's correct, she gave absolutely NO response whatsoever to our calls of 'passing' so we didn't pass her inside the bollards. I was thinking that if I'd blown an Air Zound at her (not that I have one) she still wouldn't have noticed, she was in her own world with her music up so loud.
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