Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:12 pm

Crawf wrote:I've been rolling around on various China carbon wheels for a while now and have always used the cork pads, as I had purchased a bulk qty.
I could never bring myself to spend $30+ on swisstop pads. But on the weekend I thrown on some of these and wow, the difference was like chalk and cheese.
Do yourself a favor and ditch the cork pads for these if you have them.

Do they squeal at all? My factory cork ones squeal pretty bad no matter how I have them setup. The Swissstop yellows are pretty much silent, but I don't trust them on clinchers for big descents in regards to potential overheating. Have also tried zipp corks which are pretty good. But interested in how these go.
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by BNA » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:50 pm

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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Crawf » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:50 pm

Up and down Mt Gravatt 8 times this morning, no they are silent!
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby warthog1 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:35 am

twizzle wrote: SwissStop yellow's are not compatible with all rims.


+1
They are a very hard compound and can heat the rim up dangerously apparently.
I've got Reynolds blue having tried SS yellows. The blues still pull up fine but are softer and hopefully gentler on the braking surface.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby adamr » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:14 pm

I have nearly finished shifting all the components over from my 'old' bike (2011 Malvern Star Oppy A5) to my new Chinese FM066-SL frame. Unsurprisingly, when I am finished, the new bike will be much lighter than the old. Without wanting to turn into a weight weenie, I am trying to work out one would reduce the weight of the new bike to the super-lightweight class of bikes in that other thread. I thought this would be a good place to ask.

The old bike weighed near enough to 9.5 or 9.6kg with pedals (Shimano 105), bottle cages (2x Elite Custom Race) and minor accessories (k-edge out-front garmin mount, small tail light). This includes a light seat (150g).

The new one currently weighs 6.5 incomplete. The only things left to add are the BB, crankset and chain, bar tape, and the k-edge and light. Obviously, the frame is very light (probably over 1kg lighter than the MS, and the fork is relatively lighter too). I estimate BB, crankset, and chain will add a little over 1kg, pedals, tape and extras will be another 500g or so, for a total of about 8kg.

While that is respectable, I have trouble seeing how to reduce that by 1.2kg to get to UCI minimum weight (as a benchmark). Please note, I am not planning to spend a fortune on this -- it is mostly academic.

My current wheels are heavy R500s. Changing to Pro-lite Braccianos or RS-80 C24s would reduce the weight by about 500g, I think. Is there 700g difference in weight between 105 and Dura-ace or Red groupsets?

Other parts like bar and stem could be reduced in weight by going to carbon, but from what I have seen, the difference won't be too much. I already have a lightweight alu stem (deda Zero1) and relatively light compact handlebars (FSA wing compact).

Thoughts?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:34 pm

adamr wrote: ......My current wheels are heavy R500s. Changing to Pro-lite Braccianos or RS-80 C24s would reduce the weight by about 500g, I think. Is there 700g difference in weight between 105 and Dura-ace or Red groupsets?

Other parts like bar and stem could be reduced in weight by going to carbon, but from what I have seen, the difference won't be too much. I already have a lightweight alu stem (deda Zero1) and relatively light compact handlebars (FSA wing compact).

Thoughts?


Wheels, groupset & pedals are your big targets. Wheels are the best bang for buck, but with a bit of research and effort, you can make good savings without spending too much.

Just ride and enjoy it !!
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby adamr » Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:01 pm

I have finished the build on my FM066-SL. It weighs 7.97kg including pedals and cages, but excluding bar tape (which I will put on once I have properly tested everything). Heavier than the superbikes I test rode recently, but it still feels much lighter to ride than my Oppy A5.

Next purchase will be wheels -- either Pro-lite Braccianos or Shimano RS80 c24s. Which would be better? Both are around $400 for the set, I think.

I also have my eye on a 3T stem and ergonova bars. While they are lighter (by about 150g in total, I estimate), I am more interested in aesthetics and function, than weight on those.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby usernameforme » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:46 pm

I assume you're running the stock tubes, Q/Rs and bar tape from your a5? You can save weight (without too much $) by getting some lightweight tubes (conti supersonic or some latex ones) and some light bar-tape, and some titanium Q/Rs. Some more expensive upgrades would be chainset, wheels, brakes. I suggest that you make yourself a spreadsheet and list the current weight of all of your individual components, then list the weight (real, not claimed) & price of the part you want to upgrade to. That way you'll see roughly where the best gram/$ ratio is

If you're thinking about buying wheels, just make sure you know that you'll stick to that groupset in the future. No use getting the RS80 if you see yourself getting Campag or Shimano 11 speed.
I'm selling/swapping my Giant Defy Advanced see here
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby biker jk » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:26 pm

adamr wrote:I have finished the build on my FM066-SL. It weighs 7.97kg including pedals and cages, but excluding bar tape (which I will put on once I have properly tested everything). Heavier than the superbikes I test rode recently, but it still feels much lighter to ride than my Oppy A5.

Next purchase will be wheels -- either Pro-lite Braccianos or Shimano RS80 c24s. Which would be better? Both are around $400 for the set, I think.

I also have my eye on a 3T stem and ergonova bars. While they are lighter (by about 150g in total, I estimate), I am more interested in aesthetics and function, than weight on those.


Isn't the FM066-SL a roughly 900 gram frame? Your build sounds heavy. Sorry but I haven't read back to see which groupset you used. I have seen builds weighing 6.6-7.2 kg.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby adamr » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:46 pm

biker jk wrote:
adamr wrote:I have finished the build on my FM066-SL. It weighs 7.97kg including pedals and cages, but excluding bar tape (which I will put on once I have properly tested everything). Heavier than the superbikes I test rode recently, but it still feels much lighter to ride than my Oppy A5.

Next purchase will be wheels -- either Pro-lite Braccianos or Shimano RS80 c24s. Which would be better? Both are around $400 for the set, I think.

I also have my eye on a 3T stem and ergonova bars. While they are lighter (by about 150g in total, I estimate), I am more interested in aesthetics and function, than weight on those.


Isn't the FM066-SL a roughly 900 gram frame? Your build sounds heavy. Sorry but I haven't read back to see which groupset you used. I have seen builds weighing 6.6-7.2 kg.


It is possible that my hanging scale is inaccurate, but it is not likely to be out by more than a couple of hundred grams. You are correct - 54cm frame was 879g including derailleur hanger. Fork was 370g.

Other parts as follows:
Complete Shimano 105 5700 groupset, except Ultegra 6700 braze-on front derailleur and Ultegra 11-28 cassette, k-edge chain catcher
Shimano 105 SPD-SL pedals
Shimano R500 wheels, Conti GP4000s tyres, Conti Race28 tubes
Prologo C.one50 carbon saddle
FSA Wing Pro Compact bars 42cm
Deda Zero1 alloy stem 100mm
Elite Custom Race cages
Jagwire cables
Orbea bar tape
Garmin Edge 500, k-edge mount
Lezyne Femto lights, front and rear

Does anything stand out there as particularly heavy?

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Last edited by adamr on Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby biker jk » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:10 pm

adamr wrote:
It is possible that my hanging scale is inaccurate, but it is not likely to be out by more than a couple of hundred grams. You are correct - 54cm frame was 879g including derailleur hanger. Fork was 370g.

Other parts as follows:
Complete Shimano 105 5700 groupset, except Ultegra 6700 braze-on front derailleur and Ultegra 11-28 cassette, k-edge chain catcher
Shimano 105 SPD-SL pedals
Shimano R500 wheels, Conti GP4000s tyres, Conti Race28 tubes
Prologo C.one50 carbon saddle
FSA Wing Pro Compact bars 42cm
Deda Zero1 allow stem 100mm
Elite Custom Race cages
Jagwire cables
Orbea bar tape
Garmin Edge 500, k-edge mount
Lezyne Femto lights, front and rear

Does anything stand out there as particularly heavy?



Nice looking frame. Shimano 105 isn't exactly light. Many of the other FM-066SL builds have used Sram which is lighter. Your wheels weigh around 1900 grams so this is the easiest way to get the weight down. Is the total weight you mention including lights? If so, you need to exclude those to compare to other builds (which usually include pedals, cages but not lights or other mounts).

This is a good web site for FM-066SL builds.

http://www.velobuild.com/6-build-photos/4556-fm066sl
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby adamr » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:07 pm

biker jk wrote:
adamr wrote:
It is possible that my hanging scale is inaccurate, but it is not likely to be out by more than a couple of hundred grams. You are correct - 54cm frame was 879g including derailleur hanger. Fork was 370g.

Other parts as follows:
Complete Shimano 105 5700 groupset, except Ultegra 6700 braze-on front derailleur and Ultegra 11-28 cassette, k-edge chain catcher
Shimano 105 SPD-SL pedals
Shimano R500 wheels, Conti GP4000s tyres, Conti Race28 tubes
Prologo C.one50 carbon saddle
FSA Wing Pro Compact bars 42cm
Deda Zero1 alloy stem 100mm
Elite Custom Race cages
Jagwire cables
Orbea bar tape
Garmin Edge 500, k-edge mount
Lezyne Femto lights, front and rear

Does anything stand out there as particularly heavy?



Nice looking frame. Shimano 105 isn't exactly light. Many of the other FM-066SL builds have used Sram which is lighter. Your wheels weigh around 1900 grams so this is the easiest way to get the weight down. Is the total weight you mention including lights? If so, you need to exclude those to compare to other builds (which usually include pedals, cages but not lights or other mounts).

This is a good web site for FM-066SL builds.

http://www.velobuild.com/6-build-photos/4556-fm066sl


Thanks. I have read the main threads on velobuild.com. It was very helpful.

The ~7.9kg weight was without bar tape (a bit over 8kg with tape), but not lights or Garmin or cadence/speed sensor. It did include pedals and bottle cages.

Lighter wheels will get me to 7.5kg. Lighter bars and stem are an expensive way to drop another 150g. past that, it is all down to the drivetrain. It is too expensive to change out the complete groupset, and I don't like the SRAM double-tap shifting, but is it worthwhile to change the 105 crankset for SRAM Red or Force? Will that work?

The R5 I rode recently had a Rotor crankset with 52-36 rings. I really liked that combination, and I would be keen to replicate it. (I have 53-39 and 50-34 seems too low.) However, I don't think the Rotor cranks are much lighter.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby KL. » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:25 am

Do they have frame colours other than all black ...
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby clydesmcdale » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:24 am

Yep, just ask them to paint it. Obviously at a cost. Can even ask them to paint your own scheme as you wish.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby adamr » Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:45 am

KL. wrote:Do they have frame colours other than all black ...


I just went with matte clear coat over unidirectional carbon, but paint is available in most colours or your own design.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby adamr » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:16 pm

adamr wrote:
biker jk wrote:
adamr wrote:I have finished the build on my FM066-SL. It weighs 7.97kg including pedals and cages, but excluding bar tape (which I will put on once I have properly tested everything). Heavier than the superbikes I test rode recently, but it still feels much lighter to ride than my Oppy A5.
...


Isn't the FM066-SL a roughly 900 gram frame? Your build sounds heavy. Sorry but I haven't read back to see which groupset you used. I have seen builds weighing 6.6-7.2 kg.



I have set up a spreadsheet of weights of all components. Some I have weighed myself. Others I have gone on published actual weights on the net. A few (small items) are reasonable estimates based on very close equivalent products (eg, the steerer expanding bung - I don't want to disassemble the fork just to weigh that. I will weigh it when I next have a reason to pull it out). That brings me to about 7940g. The difference will be in brake pads, tape on the bars holding cables before the bar tape, grease and lube and stuff like that, I guess, and possibly inaccuracy in my hanging scale.

I have mapped out a potential round of upgrades to reduce weight and compare $ spent/grams saved. That leads to savings of 1070g for a bargain cost of $2,112 at ordinary discount retail prices. Obviously, that would lead to a final bike weight of around 7kg.

However, I see plenty of weight weenies and other threads (including the superlight bike thread here) which discuss bikes in the low 6kg range, when starting with a frame substantially heavier than mine. I am struggling to see how one can get to that even with extreme cost (eg $$$ to save 200g extra on wheels). There just does not seem to be that much difference in weight between Dura-Ace or Red to explain the rest.

I don't doubt that it can be done at the cost of functionality (eg, handlebars so light they will crumple at the first road bump), but how can you do it with normal commercially available parts.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby kunalraiker » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:30 pm

All,

I'am looking to lower some weith of my Avanti GIRO 2 but changing the current Shimano R500 wheels, open to buying used but need the set to come under $200.00
Any options there to bring the weight down by at least 500 grams ?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby MichaelB » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:00 am

adamr wrote: .....However, I see plenty of weight weenies and other threads (including the superlight bike thread here) which discuss bikes in the low 6kg range, when starting with a frame substantially heavier than mine. I am struggling to see how one can get to that even with extreme cost (eg $$$ to save 200g extra on wheels). There just does not seem to be that much difference in weight between Dura-Ace or Red to explain the rest.
.....



You got it right there - $/g.

Some people are willing to spend extreme dollars, as the final weight is a bragging right.

Be sensible, and don't worry about it too much.

Mind you, as I found out recently, the research can be fun !!!
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby AndrewBurns » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:27 pm

It's fun to have a light bike but it's the engine that really matters... My road bike is around 8.5kg and I've certainly never considered it to be holding me back weight-wise.
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby KL. » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:49 pm

Hi All, I would love some opinions on these wheels ... http://www.farsports.cn/ViewProduct.aspx?id=756 ... thanks

Here are the specs ...

FSC50-CJ - 2013 NEW Version - Cyclecross carbon wheels 50mm clincher, 23mm width, Tubeless.
Rim: 700c 50mm deep, 23mm wide, clincher carbon rim, basalt braking surface.
Appearance: 3K Glossy
Spoke holes: 20/24H External Nipples
Weight: 1330g+/-30g
ERD: 544mm
Hub: ED hubs/ED ceramic hub, 260g/set only
Spoke: Sapim CX-ray, Black
Nipple: Sapim SILS, Red
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Crawf » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:25 pm

KL. wrote:Hi All, I would love some opinions on these wheels ... http://www.farsports.cn/ViewProduct.aspx?id=756 ... thanks

Here are the specs ...

FSC50-CJ - 2013 NEW Version - Cyclecross carbon wheels 50mm clincher, 23mm width, Tubeless.
Rim: 700c 50mm deep, 23mm wide, clincher carbon rim, basalt braking surface.
Appearance: 3K Glossy
Spoke holes: 20/24H External Nipples
Weight: 1330g+/-30g
ERD: 544mm
Hub: ED hubs/ED ceramic hub, 260g/set only
Spoke: Sapim CX-ray, Black
Nipple: Sapim SILS, Red


I thought the newer 50mm 23mm wide were heavier, in the 1500g region?
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Marty Moose » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:55 pm

Where do you buy these wheels from ?? The sites I've seen they are over $600 plus shipping not really that cheap.

MM
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby Ben82 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:17 pm

Have a look at this site, I got my farsports wheels throught them.
http://www.velobuild.com/
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby YouAgainstMe » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:19 pm

I am trying to decide between FSC38-CA-DT with the DT swiss 240 hubs vs DA c24's. They are both around the same price and either will be lighter than mavic aksiums I currently have.
I don't ride big climbs often but do enjoy it and was leaning towards the c24's for the lightweight factor. However I do most of my riding on flat to small hills around Melbourne and after hearing good reviews on the chinese carbons got a price of $790 delivered. Can anyone care to share any advice?

Cheers,
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Re: Chinese carbon frame and wheels thread

Postby masa » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:15 pm

Hi, I thought of building a bike too but not in a rush. Is there any price cycle for Chinese carbon frame and wheelset? For example price drop after Easter? ( :lol: may not be an good example). I like to order when that time comes.
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