Kwinana PSP

Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby roller » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:24 pm

MarkG wrote:I'll admit I ride two a breast in certain situations - usually

a) south bound from Cockburn to Rockingham on my daily routine, when, at 6.00 am , I can count probably 5 cyclists in total that I will pass in the opp direction.
b) north bound in certain areas, but never anywhere north of Berrigan Dve and up past the Mt Henry.

It's a shame that someone has to damage or write off a bike or a person before they realise "maybe I should have slowed down or used my head".


that came in from left field!

from your earlier posts i had you pegged firmly in the "anti-2-a-breast" camp

this post though seems to indicate you're pro-choice.

personally, i'm still undecided on the matter, there appear to be compelling arguments both for and against, not sure i'm ready to sign off on the sign/leaflet campaign/interpretive dance just yet.
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by BNA » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:36 pm

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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby MarkG » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:36 pm

Nah mate I'm not pro single file or pro two a breast. There's a time for both I think.

I'm pro "use your brain and common sense".

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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:44 pm

MarkG wrote:I'll admit I ride two a breast in certain situations - usually

a) south bound from Cockburn to Rockingham on my daily routine, when, at 6.00 am , I can count probably 5 cyclists in total that I will pass in the opp direction.
b) north bound in certain areas, but never anywhere north of Berrigan Dve and up past the Mt Henry.

It's a shame that someone has to damage or write off a bike or a person before they realise "maybe I should have slowed down or used my head".


I have never (well, maybe I shoudl say "not yet" :lol: ) ridden that stretch but when on the freeway I notice that you could just about drive a bus on it and still have room for passing. And the underpasses look OK from a line-of-site too.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby MarkG » Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:47 pm

Mate you're not missing out on much :grin:

From my place to Thomas is flat without anything to look at (cept once when cows escaped the paddocks near by) and Thomas road to Patterson road is all trucks and Patterson road to work is the same.

Then reverse it home.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby chocwege » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:35 pm

MarkG wrote:Because unfortunately, and sadly, those who refuse to exercise common sense and due respect to fellow PSP users at present are the type who are unlikely to pay attention to any signs or the like.
Long story short, you can put up all the signs you want, but unless there's a way to enforce it, well the status quo will be maintained.
I look at the people who this very sign is aimed at, and I'd bet my left nut on it that they couldn't give a s**t about a sign.

While same will claim not to know the law, and some quite honestly choose to ignore it, most of it comes down to discretion which these people seem to lack.



Not so sure about this - my observation of the PSP between Mount Henry and the Narrows on a Saturday morning is that people do not know the requirement for single file. But the walkers who insist of being 3 abreast (and often across the centre line) DO need a rather large injection of common sense. So until the path is split between cyclists and walkers it will remain a risky proposition - sign or no sign.

So I guess its Canning Highway and Labouchere Road for me from now on.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby argybargy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:17 am

It seems getting warning signs painted on various bike paths would help the situation.
Is anyone going to champion this, or it going to stay as a pipe dream?

(I confess that other commuters hardly affect me as I only ride the 'extreme' southern route on the Kwinana PSP)
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby damonik » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:42 am

I have been a bit disappointed that no one from our usually vocal biking advocacy groups have commented on this.

I see the point that the people who know the rules and ignore them are going to continue to behave that way, but I know there is plenty of people out there who aren't aware of the rules on the PSP. I've taken the time to politely point out to a few people over the last few months whom I've seen riding two abreast, and usually it has been taken well.

The signs might not help every situation, but they sure as hell won't have a negative effect.

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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:57 pm

damonik wrote:I have been a bit disappointed that no one from our usually vocal biking advocacy groups have commented on this.


Well as a member of the Board of the Bicycle Transport Alliance I think I have made my views well known numerous times: sorry but don't have the time or inclination to jump into every thread every time. That said there is only so much the small group of volunteer board members of BTA can do and frankly our focus is generally more on infrastructure and more holistic plans to support cycling ... We are putting all our efforts or rather Heinrich's efforts into those projects at the moment.

Maybe you would like to join the BTAWA Board and that way you can expand its efforts? The AGM is coming up ... great opportunity for you :wink:

If you are a BWA member, you really should address your concerns directly to them. I don't believe they engage here with cyclists.

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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby Sundy84 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:00 pm

This morning just north of mount henry bridge I saw a cyclist cycling along beside talking to two people walking, between the 3 of them they were taking up most of the pathway. I went past and so did the cyclist behind me. 30 seconds later the cyclist has caught up and is shouting at the guy behind me.
Didnt catch what he said as he had some sort of silly looking face mask on but I assume he was giving out to the guy behind me for going too close to him.

So to the guy with the face mask, green top and red bag, wind your neck in and next time dont block most of the path.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby MarkG » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:49 pm

chocwege wrote:
MarkG wrote:Because unfortunately, and sadly, those who refuse to exercise common sense and due respect to fellow PSP users at present are the type who are unlikely to pay attention to any signs or the like.
Long story short, you can put up all the signs you want, but unless there's a way to enforce it, well the status quo will be maintained.
I look at the people who this very sign is aimed at, and I'd bet my left nut on it that they couldn't give a s**t about a sign.

While same will claim not to know the law, and some quite honestly choose to ignore it, most of it comes down to discretion which these people seem to lack.



Not so sure about this - my observation of the PSP between Mount Henry and the Narrows on a Saturday morning is that people do not know the requirement for single file. But the walkers who insist of being 3 abreast (and often across the centre line) DO need a rather large injection of common sense. So until the path is split between cyclists and walkers it will remain a risky proposition - sign or no sign.

So I guess its Canning Highway and Labouchere Road for me from now on.


Whether or not people know it's the rule or the law or the norm or whatever, is hardly the point - it's about using common sense.
That stretch of path in question, especially on the weekend mornings, and specially in the summer months is always jam packed with pedestrians, runners, joggers, cyclists , dog walkers and more.
Are you honestly telling me that you need someone to hold your hand and tell you 'probably not ideal to ride two a breast here'

We are becoming so used to having every aspect of our lives dictated to and scrutinized that we've apparently lost the ability to use our own initiative it seems.
Last edited by MarkG on Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby exadios » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:33 pm

chocwege wrote:
MarkG wrote:Because unfortunately, and sadly, those who refuse to exercise common sense and due respect to fellow PSP users at present are the type who are unlikely to pay attention to any signs or the like.
Long story short, you can put up all the signs you want, but unless there's a way to enforce it, well the status quo will be maintained.
I look at the people who this very sign is aimed at, and I'd bet my left nut on it that they couldn't give a s**t about a sign.

While same will claim not to know the law, and some quite honestly choose to ignore it, most of it comes down to discretion which these people seem to lack.



Not so sure about this - my observation of the PSP between Mount Henry and the Narrows on a Saturday morning is that people do not know the requirement for single file. But the walkers who insist of being 3 abreast (and often across the centre line) DO need a rather large injection of common sense. So until the path is split between cyclists and walkers it will remain a risky proposition - sign or no sign.

So I guess its Canning Highway and Labouchere Road for me from now on.


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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby MarkG » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:41 pm

I'm more worried about them gophers!
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby nachoman » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:57 pm

Going by the caption, it looks like the West Australian newspaper photographed their own riders going two abreast on the PSP :oops:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa ... bike-boom/
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby citywomble » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:21 pm

Yep, looks like.

Perhaps they should be informed that:
A. It's not a Bike path, it's a shared path (SP)
B. Two abreast is not only illegal, it's stupid especially when passing anyone
C. Riding in a peleton is not suitable for SPs, even a Principal one (PSP)
D. This probably the worst section of the PSP network to do any of the above, let alone all of them - see this thread and others.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby rcmkII » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:59 pm

nachoman wrote:Going by the caption, it looks like the West Australian newspaper photographed their own riders going two abreast on the PSP :oops:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa ... bike-boom/


Ironically, they have another page on the same site titled "Cycling road rules":

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/full-c ... oad-rules/

One of the rules they quote? There are also guidelines for using shared paths with pedestrians when cyclists must travel in single file and ring a bell when approaching pedestrians from behind.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby BandedRail » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:46 pm

rcmkII wrote:
nachoman wrote:Going by the caption, it looks like the West Australian newspaper photographed their own riders going two abreast on the PSP :oops:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa ... bike-boom/


Ironically, they have another page on the same site titled "Cycling road rules":

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/full-c ... oad-rules/

One of the rules they quote? There are also guidelines for using shared paths with pedestrians when cyclists must travel in single file and ring a bell when approaching pedestrians from behind.


Which is also a bit misleading as the law (in WA at least) is that you must ride single file on a shared path while the bell-ringing is not a law but a guideline only.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby Aushiker » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:11 am

BandedRail wrote:Which is also a bit misleading as the law (in WA at least) is that you must ride single file on a shared path while the bell-ringing is not a law but a guideline only.


It is incompetent journalism ... not exactly hard to check facts - Road Code is easy to read. I have given them the heads up via Twitter and hopefully they will correct.

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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby citywomble » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:23 am

As BandedRail said:

Which is also a bit misleading as the law (in WA at least) is that you must ride single file on a shared path while the bell-ringing is not a law but a guideline only.


Not only is that guideline actually a law, but one of the laws, as "Cyclists Must"
Use the left lane of a roundabout when turning right, provided they give way to all exiting traffic.

Is actually like a guideline and one of the special rules given to to cyclists but not at the expense of still being able to 'own' the right lane at a roundabout as any other vehicle.

That one is not a cyclist MUST but a cyclist MAY in addition to normal use.

As Aushiker says its incompetent journalism, in my opinion verging on negligent.
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby wellington_street » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:46 am

^ Agree. Shocking misinformation. Why would you expect better from The Worst though?
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Re: Kwinana PSP

Postby HappyHumber » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:18 pm

wellington_street wrote:^ Agree. Shocking misinformation. Why would you expect better from The Worst though?


Every day is Prosh day at the "Wet Alsatian".... It's the loyal readership swallowing it every day that worries me more.
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