Retro climber?
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Retro climber?
Postby mse » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:21 pm
I've been riding my one & only bike into work for 5 odd years now - love it!
It's an old tange frame with shimano sport exage running gear. Nothing special but very original, in good condition & I like it. However, some friends have recently started early morning weekend rides & being late 30's, of course they went straight for carbon & Lycra!..... I'm not ready for that yet! So, I want to use my trusty steel vintage alongside the modern plastic but once we get to any decent incline I struggle. I'm certainly no pro but I can see that my major disadvantage is the gearing. I don't have a gear that lets me spin fast enough to just stay in the saddle & pedal uphill. For every one of my revolutions, my friends have turned their shinny cranks over twice!
Can I change the smaller front cog (54&42 biospace sis) to something even smaller? OR do i need to change the rear cogs?
Would love to hear your suggestions!!
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby Discodan » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:48 pm
some options, none of them flash but if you're looking for a cheap solution
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUNRACE-SCRE ... 3f1c4f62b1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Shimano- ... 5aee52f5bd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Sunrace- ... 565199f1fd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby dayne » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:04 am
It's a trade off thing,
The testing on pros shows the fastest most efficient way up is a cadence for most of 83.
To be honest the weight of your bike will make a big difference as will the size of you,
If there big long mountains then a 12/27 is a good option,
If hills a 11/25,
This may not be an option in the group you have so just get the biggest you can, but more so go train more on hills,
Practice hill repeats of about 6-10min long at a cadence of about 60 so pretty slow and concentrate on strength,
In a matter of weeks you will really notice a change.
If you like steel and have a nice frame look at a second hand 105 10 speed group.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby elantra » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:59 am
Usually costs about 40 dollars at bike shop, but it will not be biopace.
Or as has been mentioned by Discodan get a wider ratio cluster.
I had to buy a screw-on shimano compatible 6-speed the other day, 13 to 28.
Found one (a Sunrace brand) at a brisbane bike shop for Twelve dollars.
And there is a perverse pleasure to be gained from passing your mates on their new bikes going uphill on your downtube shifting steel dinosaur.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby ldrcycles » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:41 pm
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:52 pm
Definitely get a 13-28 freewheel. The 42 x 28 combination is the same as a modern 39 x 26. The ratio that your mates are probably using.
Also don't beat yourself up about climbing slowly. Just enjoy the challenge of the climb. The guys I ride with smash me up the hills by 3 or more minutes. Some people are just genetically better climbers.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby idw » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:38 pm
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby munga » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:48 pm
you could be riding a housebrick and still be waiting for me at the summit.elantra wrote: And there is a perverse pleasure to be gained from passing your mates on their new bikes going uphill on your downtube shifting steel dinosaur.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby DarrylH » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:22 pm
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby ldrcycles » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:41 pm
Curious though, why do i find on 2 bikes with identical gearing, one with an aluminium frame and the other steel (and about 3kg between them) i find climbing much harder on the steel frame? Specifically steep climbs, short rollers the heavier bikes feel faster (momentum?)singlespeedscott wrote:But the weight of the steel frame has little to do with it in the grand scheme. Your power to weight is based on the total mass of your bike and yourself. A 3-4 kg difference is going to mean little.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:44 pm
What does Strava say? Usually when you hurt more your going faster.ldrcycles wrote:Curious though, why do i find on 2 bikes with identical gearing, one with an aluminium frame and the other steel (and about 3kg between them) i find climbing much harder on the steel frame? Specifically steep climbs, short rollers the heavier bikes feel faster (momentum?)singlespeedscott wrote:But the weight of the steel frame has little to do with it in the grand scheme. Your power to weight is based on the total mass of your bike and yourself. A 3-4 kg difference is going to mean little.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby ldrcycles » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:03 pm
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby Ferrovelo » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:23 pm
I got a new (old) bike with those same ratios. I took it for a first ride on a local mountain loop that I like (mt kembla) and it was punishing all the way. I'm slow and unfit, but it's a loop I've don't several times and never suffered like that. I had to be out of the saddle the while way. Felt like it anyway.DarrylH wrote:My steely came with a 53/42 and 13/21 on the back - men were men back then. Easily picked up a 39 inner ring and put a 12/27 on the back and it is no slower up most hills than my 2012 CF with 10 sp 105 gear running a compact front and 11/28 on the back.
Next time took a bike with a triple ring front and 28 back and was about 10 mins quicker with much less suffering.
No more mountain rides for me on those gears.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby Metor » Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:59 pm
Steel is less stiff. So on steep hills you lose more energy on getting the bike up and forwardldrcycles wrote:Curious though, why do i find on 2 bikes with identical gearing, one with an aluminium frame and the other steel (and about 3kg between them) i find climbing much harder on the steel frame? Specifically steep climbs, short rollers the heavier bikes feel faster (momentum?)singlespeedscott wrote:But the weight of the steel frame has little to do with it in the grand scheme. Your power to weight is based on the total mass of your bike and yourself. A 3-4 kg difference is going to mean little.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:12 pm
On a long climb I think stiffness has little to do with it. Long climbs are done seated. Not out of the saddle swinging off the bars. Some flex in certain parts of your frame can help in climbing and descending.Metor wrote:Steel is less stiff. So on steep hills you lose more energy on getting the bike up and forwardldrcycles wrote:Curious though, why do i find on 2 bikes with identical gearing, one with an aluminium frame and the other steel (and about 3kg between them) i find climbing much harder on the steel frame? Specifically steep climbs, short rollers the heavier bikes feel faster (momentum?)singlespeedscott wrote:But the weight of the steel frame has little to do with it in the grand scheme. Your power to weight is based on the total mass of your bike and yourself. A 3-4 kg difference is going to mean little.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby Discodan » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:00 am
I found on the MS with it's 2 x 6 ratios when I was in race trim that for most hills it forced me to just push harder and go faster to stay on top of the gears but on one particular regular ride (coming out of Akuna Bay anticlockwise) the hill was too steep and I'd fall off the back of the gears. If the hills you are riding are beyond that threshold for you then lower gearing will help, just don't go all soft and use it all the time.
On the comments about weight and stiffness and it's impact on climbing, I won't profess to understand but suspect the comment about standing vs seated climbing is key. Last year I took my brother's 6.3kg beast up Norton Summit Rd (a 400m climb in Adelaide) and for the majority of the ride I was seated and really couldn't notice any difference compared to the 11kg MS. Coming to the 60 kph sign at the end of the ride I got out of the seat for the first time and booted it and, oh my god, the difference was amazing and it really leapt forward. Was this due to the 5kg weight saving or the stiffer frame, I don't know the answer (I suspect stiffness) to that one but there certainly was a difference. Just my 2c
cheers
dan
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby Paddles » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:06 am
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby LG » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:57 pm
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby ldrcycles » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:15 pm
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby Metor » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:22 pm
I replied on the steep climbs, because there is where he has most trouble. Those you do most of the time standing. Besides that are long climbs for sure not always done seated. I prefer standing even on long climbs. It takes more energy but I feel more comfortable and gives me more power. Except when I am just taking it easy and want to enjoy the viewsinglespeedscott wrote:On a long climb I think stiffness has little to do with it. Long climbs are done seated. Not out of the saddle swinging off the bars. Some flex in certain parts of your frame can help in climbing and descending.Metor wrote:Steel is less stiff. So on steep hills you lose more energy on getting the bike up and forwardldrcycles wrote: Curious though, why do i find on 2 bikes with identical gearing, one with an aluminium frame and the other steel (and about 3kg between them) i find climbing much harder on the steel frame? Specifically steep climbs, short rollers the heavier bikes feel faster (momentum?)
Some flex might help, but the difference between steel and aluminium can be huge. I rather have a stiff bike on a climb and a descent.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:59 pm
Yet my Clamont road bike, designed for crits, as well as being the lightest steel frame I own is also the stiffest.ldrcycles wrote: i remember an article in Ride (i think) where a track rider from the 80s complained about how much flex the Clamont track bikes had.
I guess I just dont put out as much power as Martin Vinnicombe . I doubt Andre Greiple puts out as much power as he did. Regardless, when you are talking about guys with that much power any frame is going to flex. Unless it's a BT carbon track frame.
I stand for short power climbs but prefer to sit on longer steeper ones. I get out of the saddle occasionally but only to rest the hamies.Metor wrote:I replied on the steep climbs, because there is where he has most trouble. Those you do most of the time standing. Besides that are long climbs for sure not always done seated. I prefer standing even on long climbs. It takes more energy but I feel more comfortable and gives me more power. Except when I am just taking it easy and want to enjoy the view
Some flex might help, but the difference between steel and aluminium can be huge. I rather have a stiff bike on a climb and a descent.
Just watch the tour riders. They spend most of the time in the saddle and only get out to attack or rest the legs.
Give me a nice steel frame for descending any time. Nothing holds a line like a steelie. Stiff frames bounce around to much on rough bitumen and don't hold a line.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby mse » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:36 pm
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby Stepr » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:09 pm
Surprising that the 7 speed indexing works so well on the 9 speed but is does, just have to set it up right.
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Re: Retro climber?
Postby sunho » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:19 pm
'Stepr wrote:I started riding my old Kojima to work with a 7 speed rear cassette, I messed around and changed the gearing, but eventually got a cheap (second hand) R500 rear wheel and upgraded to a 9 speed and put on a 9 speed chain. I still use the 7 speed indexing and it changes very well, If I want the extra gears for climbing I turn the thumb screw on the shifter while riding and it changes it to friction enabling me to access any gear.
Surprising that the 7 speed indexing works so well on the 9 speed but is does, just have to set it up right.
clever... i must try that to see if i can access my other gears...
at the moment i have 7 speed dt shifters because 8 speed is too xcy..
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