What's the point of motor pacing?

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What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby trailgumby » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:46 pm

On our West Head Akuna Bay loop this morning on the mtbs (trails are much too wet to ride) we were passed by a motor scooter "towing" a roadie up the climb.

Apart from feeding the roadie a steady flow of carbon monoxide, I really struggled to see whst they were trying to achieve unless he was chasing a Strava KOM. Surely if he was trying to keep his cadence up in a specific range it would be just as effective to select a shorter gear?

It just struck me as a really pointless thing to do. Makes much more sense to use a power meter if you want to elimimate the effect of wind on your traini.ng results ... cheaper too.

Or do I have this all wrong?
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by BNA » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:34 pm

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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:34 pm

Head over to the track sub-forum and look for recent posts by Derny Driver and Brentono answering this very question.
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:41 pm

The motor bike will push you to your absolute limit for a start, therefore your legs will become used to pushing that gear at a high rate of knots. :mrgreen:

Plus it ain't gonna run out of puff, unless it runs out of fuel. :twisted:

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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:56 pm

Motorpacing gives a style of training that more closely simulates high pace riding in mass start races that can be difficult to simulate solo, or when riding with other riders with variable capabilities.

It enables some specific drills to be performed, such sustaining high pace in cross winds, practicing sprints from high speeds, and controlled intervals at higher speeds. It also simulates the greater inertial loads and stochastic nature of power demand experienced when racing. It can also be a lot of fun and motivating, as well as enable a rider to find their limits while still having support with them in case they crack badly. The moto never gets tired. It's not for everyone of course and needs to be done well with an experienced moto pilot.

In essence, you can simulate/develop the metabolic demands just fine on your own, but the variability of neuromuscular demands is harder to replicate. Mototpacing (done well/properly) enables you to do both.
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby Daccordi Rider » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:37 pm

What Alex says. Our team has been doing some TTT training pacing behind a tandem. Helps us maintain a steady high pace more like race speed. It really hurts but gets you used to the effort taken to go at a higher speed. Great for technique also.
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby trailgumby » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:32 pm

Had a look at the track thread with contributions by Alex and Derny, very interesting.

More of a road-racing specific thing, I gather. The guy had a very smooth action with virtually no upper body english, but given the motor pacing wasn't going as fast as I was expecting.

That reverse direction climb up from Akuna Bay is a good 'un. 8)
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:33 pm

Daccordi Rider wrote:Our team has been doing some TTT training pacing behind a tandem......

Thats very cool and very old skool!!
Major Taylor used to do that.
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby Daccordi Rider » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:10 pm

Cheers Derny, great fun. First week we had two of our Elite riders on the tandem and they set off from Grange up to Outer Harbour at 47-50km per hour. Needless to say we ended up with the team scattered halfway over Adelaide's beachfront as we all progressively got spat out. Would have been impressive early though as about 12 of us were going past big packs like they were standing still. Gave better instructions the next week and a good pace of 40-42 was set. Hard enough but not so much that the guys were getting slaughtered.

Our team has got involved with Paracycling SA and take vision impaired riders out each week and incorporate the tandems into our standard team run. Good training and very rewarding to see how much fun the VI's have with us.
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby trailgumby » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:41 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
Daccordi Rider wrote:Our team has been doing some TTT training pacing behind a tandem......

Thats very cool and very old skool!!
Major Taylor used to do that.

More than tandems... quads and up!
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:31 pm

The Bol D'Or was a tandem paced race, famously won by our very own Oppy. The event is now dead, unfortunately.
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby Daccordi Rider » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:47 am

BFV, never heard of that. Do you have any more details? How it worked etc?
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:31 am

I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby Daccordi Rider » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:44 am

Thanks Foo, holy smokes that sounds hard! 950k in a velodrome.... :shock:
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:48 am

Daccordi Rider wrote:Thanks Foo, holy smokes that sounds hard! 950k in a velodrome.... :shock:


Umm, actually, after Oppy won the Bol d'Or his manager urged/forced him to go for the 1000K record, which he did. Basically he told Oppy that if he ever wanted to do the 1000K record in the future, he would have to go through all of that again!
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:51 am

foo on patrol wrote:http://www.malvernstar.com.au/about/honour.aspx



Foo :mrgreen:

Im interested that Malvern Star claim the Paris Six Day here.

The team was Roger Arnold (my uncle), Sid Patterson and Russ Mockridge.

My uncle rode for MS on the road in Australia in 1954 but to my knowledge never owned a MS track bike. When he returned to Europe he would have been on his favourite Raleigh track bike or a Rudge who was his sponsor in 1955.

Mocka of course was a loyal Healing man all his life.

That leaves Patto who was famously Malvern Star but I dont know that he rode Malvern Stars in Europe. His European sponsor was Sun Cycles / Rudge (british). I very much doubt a MS track bike featured in the Paris 6.

Next time I ring my uncle I will ask him if he remembers what bikes Patto used in Europe. My uncle teamed with Patto for many races from 1955 to 1960 so he would know.
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby Daccordi Rider » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:25 am

bigfriendlyvegan wrote:
Daccordi Rider wrote:Thanks Foo, holy smokes that sounds hard! 950k in a velodrome.... :shock:


Umm, actually, after Oppy won the Bol d'Or his manager urged/forced him to go for the 1000K record, which he did. Basically he told Oppy that if he ever wanted to do the 1000K record in the future, he would have to go through all of that again!


Well it was only another 100 laps. :D
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Re: What's the point of motor pacing?

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:02 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
foo on patrol wrote:http://www.malvernstar.com.au/about/honour.aspx



Foo :mrgreen:

Im interested that Malvern Star claim the Paris Six Day here.

The team was Roger Arnold (my uncle), Sid Patterson and Russ Mockridge.

My uncle rode for MS on the road in Australia in 1954 but to my knowledge never owned a MS track bike. When he returned to Europe he would have been on his favourite Raleigh track bike or a Rudge who was his sponsor in 1955.

Mocka of course was a loyal Healing man all his life.

That leaves Patto who was famously Malvern Star but I dont know that he rode Malvern Stars in Europe. His European sponsor was Sun Cycles / Rudge (british). I very much doubt a MS track bike featured in the Paris 6.

Next time I ring my uncle I will ask him if he remembers what bikes Patto used in Europe. My uncle teamed with Patto for many races from 1955 to 1960 so he would know.


That's interesting Derny and would be interested in what you find out. :wink:

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