See the dictionary definition.human909 wrote:Strawman. Nobody is claiming that carry a drivers license is onerous.
Sent from my iThingy...
Postby twizzle » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:31 pm
See the dictionary definition.human909 wrote:Strawman. Nobody is claiming that carry a drivers license is onerous.
Postby outnabike » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:08 pm
Postby human909 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:35 pm
outnabike wrote:But my main point is , I do the most dangerous stuff, and always have ID on me. And that is shopping at Aldi when a special is on. You have to be quick on your feet at Aldi I can tell you...
Postby darkelf921 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:25 pm
Paramedics will have access to your body. They may not have access to your saddle bag or phone (especially if it is locked requiring a number or phrase to unlock it).g-boaf wrote:I didn't even know the RoadID existed. I'll be getting one. A friend of mine had a heart attack recently. If something happened to me, I want people to know who I am and who to contact.darkelf921 wrote:RoadID for me, as well as a medic alert necklace.
Postby skull » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:30 pm
darkelf921 wrote: or phone (especially if it is locked requiring a number or phrase to unlock it).
Postby simonn » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:49 pm
I carry id, medicare/health insurance, organ donor etc cards with me when I am not cycling too. They live in my wallet. Except when I am cyclign and don't take my wallet, in which case they are in the waterproof bag with my phone.human909 wrote:Because it frustrates me how fixated cyclists on these forums are about death and injury.
Postby rdp_au » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:23 am
My ID lives in my wallet and it's rare that I don't take it with me when I'm cycling. I also have a 'Gong ride ID card the that I leave in my bag. I'm also not particularly concerned, but it seems a very simple thing to do that can make a big difference if things do turn ugly.simonn wrote:I carry id, medicare/health insurance, organ donor etc cards with me when I am not cycling too. They live in my wallet. Except when I am cyclign and don't take my wallet, in which case they are in the waterproof bag with my phone.human909 wrote:Because it frustrates me how fixated cyclists on these forums are about death and injury.
Not fixated on it, but I have actually needed my id, medicare and health insurance cards before.
Postby Baalzamon » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:00 pm
Postby jonbays » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:57 pm
toolonglegs wrote:I have a French ID card ( carte sejour )... when in France you are supposed to have ID at all times. For foreigners a passport should be carried at all times ( yup even climbing Alpe D'huez ) ... got to keep an eye on those illegal immigrants after all.
But in reality you will be fine unless you are breaking laws on a bike... still it only takes one police man or gendarme to ask you, if you haven't got it you may well be locked up until you can prove your id.
If you aren't white then the chances are much higher of being asked for id .
Postby toolonglegs » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:29 pm
Postby jzr » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:03 pm
Postby sogood » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:29 pm
Actually, removal from a location of danger ie. Roadway, is a priority. There's no point in having a dead victim with a preserved spinal cord, along with dead and injured helpers. You just have to see the big picture and know that following an accident, you will always be playing Russian Roulette. If you don't like it, then learn to manage your risks and avoid accidents.jzr wrote:Case in point - someone I know was on a bus recently and saw the aftermath of two cyclists being collected by a 4WD. The driver in an attempt to 'help' was seen to be dragging one of the injured off the road and over to the curb in a panic - the person was in no state to be moved in such a way, allegedly convulsing at the time (massive danger of causing spinal injury). Don't know how it ended but gee I'd hate to be worse off than I otherwise would have been because someone wanted to help but had no bloody idea what they were doing.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
Postby human909 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:13 am
sogood wrote:Actually, removal from a location of danger ie. Roadway, is a priority. There's no point in having a dead victim with a preserved spinal cord, along with dead and injured helpers. You just have to see the big picture and know that following an accident, you will always be playing Russian Roulette. If you don't like it, then learn to manage your risks and avoid accidents.
Postby Lukeyboy » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:13 am
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:28 am
You have just contradicted yourself above.human909 wrote:I can't say that I'm excited by your first aid instincts/training. Unless it is a high speed road with a blind corner then I can't agree with your that the road way is a danger and removal from it is a priority. I also don't see "that following an accident, you will always be playing Russian Roulette" is at all a common scenario.
Sure ensuring the the attendees and then the victims are safe from further harm is an absolute priority. But most circumstances THIS DOES NOT INVOLVE MOVING THE VICTIM!
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
Postby Angus » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:11 am
Postby simonn » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:57 am
Comparing my white self with some not so white colleagues, Australia is not that much different.toolonglegs wrote:^^^when I applied for my work / residency cards the first thing I was told was " don't worry, your the right color, it will go through easily " . It went through very easily.
Postby il padrone » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:28 am
Have been in that situation on more than one occasion (and the injured person a couple of times), mostly on quiet gravel roads and lanes. But once was on a busy road. We had a rider who had gone OTB and slammed into the tarmac at 55kmh. He was initially not moving, not conscious, then later roused a little. He was lying in the middle of the main road across the Otways to Lorne. A doctor soon stopped, and we lifted and moved him to the roadside (out of the sun on a hot day). We had checked before this that he had movement of arms and legs.Angus wrote:Danger - check for immediate danger to yourself and the injured person. In the case of a cyclist crash, moving the person off the road may be the best thing, every situation will be different and if you are ever the rescuer you've just got to make the best call on that at the time.
Postby human909 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:59 pm
I agree. But the original scenario described was nothing like that.il padrone wrote:Leaving a patient in the middle of a road with busy two-way traffic, while waiting for what turned out to be about 15-20mins for the ambulance, was not a very sensible option.
There is no contradiction.sogood wrote: You have just contradicted yourself above.
After any accident, management is a series of finding the least evil. In this case, if moving the victim will alleviate the greater evil (further injuries to victim, helpers and others) of environmental dangers, then so be it....
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:13 pm
You got it wrong again!human909 wrote:Sure if there are strong indications of no spinal injury then getting them off the road is a clear priority but first you need to make the area safe and then check on the patient.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
Postby human909 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:40 pm
Well I would disagree. And would prefer somebody other that you to deal with such situations. Your insistence that the patient be moved before other sensible precautions are taken is absurd.sogood wrote:You got it wrong again!human909 wrote:Sure if there are strong indications of no spinal injury then getting them off the road is a clear priority but first you need to make the area safe and then check on the patient.
There's no way a helper, let alone lay people, to be able to fully assess the presence or absence of spinal injuries. Some of them can be very subtle, especially in an unconscious/semi-conscious patient. Even if there's a spinal injury, removing the injured from a road is still a priority, but just done with skill. See the big risk picture and don't over-emphasise one particular form of injury.
Postby RonK » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:41 pm
Better put a note on your road id then - In the event of an emergency not to be attended by Sogood.human909 wrote:Well I would disagree. And would prefer somebody other that you to deal with such situations. Your insistence that the patient be moved before other sensible precautions are taken is absurd.
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:58 pm
LOL!RonK wrote:Better put a note on your road id then - In the event of an emergency not to be attended by Sogood.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
Postby twizzle » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:53 pm
And I know a quadriplegic who ended up that way after being pulled from under a car. If they hadn't been pulled out... who knows.jzr wrote:With or without ID, a bigger danger in my view is being 'assisted' under any circumstance following an incident (in whatever sport you like) by someone who doesn't know what they are doing.
Case in point - someone I know was on a bus recently and saw the aftermath of two cyclists being collected by a 4WD. The driver in an attempt to 'help' was seen to be dragging one of the injured off the road and over to the curb in a panic - the person was in no state to be moved in such a way, allegedly convulsing at the time (massive danger of causing spinal injury). Don't know how it ended but gee I'd hate to be worse off than I otherwise would have been because someone wanted to help but had no bloody idea what they were doing.
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:08 pm
Twizzle, a sad sensationalistic n=1 example. You really like to use these don't you?twizzle wrote:And I know a quadriplegic who ended up that way after being pulled from under a car. If they hadn't been pulled out... who knows.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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