Do you carry ID
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby Becker_11 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:16 pm
2nd is little Sophie Delezio (sp)
She was trapped under a car and suffered horrific injuries.
It comes down to this. If you witness a crash and your not medically trained you do the best you can at the time. Hoping you don't make things worse in doing so
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:23 pm
Correct! That's the Russian Roulette I talked about earlier. Prevention of accident is the best bet!Becker_11 wrote:It comes down to this. If you witness a crash and your not medically trained you do the best you can at the time. Hoping you don't make things worse in doing so
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby twizzle » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:30 pm
No, simply pointing out there can be consequences when people react without thinking.sogood wrote:Twizzle, a sad sensationalistic n=1 example. You really like to use these don't you?twizzle wrote:And I know a quadriplegic who ended up that way after being pulled from under a car. If they hadn't been pulled out... who knows.
No one hear of those who have been removed from points of danger and lived.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:49 pm
No one suggested there's no consequence. But that's often the dice one rolls and the balance of evils at the time.twizzle wrote:No, simply pointing out there can be consequences when people react without thinking.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby twizzle » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:38 pm
Correct.sogood wrote:No one suggested there's no consequence. But that's often the dice one rolls and the balance of evils at the time.twizzle wrote:No, simply pointing out there can be consequences when people react without thinking.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby human909 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:54 pm
You still have not established that this so called point of danger. The road won't open up and swallow the cyclists. The risk of other traffic on the road in such a circumstance is normally non existent. It is normally trivial to ensure that oncoming traffic is aware of the situation and wont present a danger.sogood wrote:No one hear of those who have been removed from points of danger and lived.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby DaveOZ » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:00 pm
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:03 pm
Yes, so many in the community need to be spoon fed on what are danger and what are not. That why it'll always be a dice throw.human909 wrote:You still have not established that this so called point of danger. The road won't open up and swallow the cyclists. The risk of other traffic on the road in such a circumstance is normally non existent. It is normally trivial to ensure that oncoming traffic is aware of the situation and wont present a danger.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby warthog1 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:12 pm
Rushing a potential spinal pt off the road Lebanon style, limbs flailing is probably not the best approach. Better to mitigate the danger without moving the patient, in the absence of the correct equipment.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:48 pm
That clearly can't always be counted on given the lighting, weather, road condition, number of helpers etc etc. It's one of those assessment one has to make on the scene.warthog1 wrote:A better tactic would be to place some bystanders up the road to warn oncoming traffic and place some stationary vehicles between the patient and danger.
"Rushing" is sensationalistic. If the helper lacked clinical first aid skills, do you think they are guaranteed to have the skills to look after the big picture? For those with knowledge, there are ways to move a patient safely. If the spinal injury is already so bad that it can't be moved with care, then even ambos with their neck brace and spinal board will unlikely to completely avoid further injuries. As said, rule 1 is to avoid putting helpers in danger.Rushing a potential spinal pt off the road Lebanon style, limbs flailing is probably not the best approach. Better to mitigate the danger without moving the patient, in the absence of the correct equipment.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby warthog1 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:04 pm
That is perhaps so, but they have a much better chance of moving someone with a spinal injury appropriately given the training and equipment than those without.sogood wrote: If the spinal injury is already so bad that it can't be moved with care, then even ambos with their neck brace and spinal board will unlikely to completely avoid further injuries.
The first choice is not to move a patient with a spinal injury until those with the training and equipment arrive. Life over limb yes, but it is best avoided until other options are exhausted.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby Eleri » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:32 pm
Recently one of our club members crashed and didn't have his licence or anything with emergency contact details. Fortunately the club secretary was with us and able to get into the CA membership data base from her smart phone at the accident scene and get contact details . Don't you love technology?
At that accident, he couldn't be moved, was on a blind corner and fortunately there were enough people around to manage traffic rather than try and move him. Not that there was anywhere to move him to as it happens. I think you have to take every situation as you find it and use your best judgement to manage risk.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby Nobody » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:38 pm
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:51 pm
Assuming we are talking about the same case, that's a different scenario as it's on a community ride with large number of cyclists around. Situation would be very different if it was a solo rider on a busy road. But as already stated, one needs to judge wisely on a per case basis.Eleri wrote:Recently one of our club members crashed and didn't have his licence or anything with emergency contact details... At that accident, he couldn't be moved, was on a blind corner and fortunately there were enough people around to manage traffic rather than try and move him. Not that there was anywhere to move him to as it happens. I think you have to take every situation as you find it and use your best judgement to manage risk.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby PB12IN » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:07 am
because carrying id is ok, but planning to carry id is just plain offencive to some people.Nobody wrote:Why is a thread about carrying ID 5 pages long?
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby Nobody » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:14 am
Oh, OK. Thanks. I'll go read some other thread then...PB12IN wrote:because carrying id is ok, but planning to carry id is just plain offensive to some people.Nobody wrote:Why is a thread about carrying ID 5 pages long?
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby MichaelB » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:28 am
This is in danger of becoming a defacto MHL thread.PB12IN wrote:because carrying id is ok, but planning to carry id is just plain offencive to some people.Nobody wrote:Why is a thread about carrying ID 5 pages long?
I carry ID because of several reasons. 1 is it might help in the case of an accident. 2 is that it isn't that hard. Really.
Grenade thrown, time to move on.
In regards to spinal injuries and potential collateral damage, I hope I am never in that situation (giver or receiver), but each person has to judge the situation at the time, and all the armcahir experts who pass judgement after the fact, from an armchair and say "Yeah, but ..." can go get stuffed.
Lest we end up like the recent US example where the nursing home would not administer CPR, as it was not their policy to do so, but to wait for expert trained personnel. That person died. I'd rather be paralysed than dead.
Until then, risde safe and carry ID.
QED
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby roller » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:37 am
5 pages of "this one time at bandcamp. . . "Nobody wrote:Why is a thread about carrying ID 5 pages long?
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby warthog1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:47 am
We're not talking CPR, withholding that will leave you dead or with a brain injury.MichaelB wrote:
Lest we end up like the recent US example where the nursing home would not administer CPR, as it was not their policy to do so, but to wait for expert trained personnel. That person died. I'd rather be paralysed than dead.
Until then, risde safe and carry ID.
QED
I was advocating not moving a potential spinal pt unnecessairily. Investigate other options first.
I don't think anyone was advocating withholding first aid, just avoiding pt movement in certain circumstances if possible.
I am not sure i would rather be alive and a quadriplegic. I would rather avoid the injury first.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby gorilla monsoon » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:08 pm
Because we are all still trying to ID each other.Nobody wrote:Why is a thread about carrying ID 5 pages long?
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby Tornado » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:19 pm
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby Venus62 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:24 pm
Great summary!PB12IN wrote: because carrying id is ok, but planning to carry id is just plain offencive to some people.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby Mulger bill » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:50 pm
Aaaargh! Begone horrible visions!roller wrote:5 pages of "this one time at bandcamp. . . "Nobody wrote:Why is a thread about carrying ID 5 pages long?
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby Apple » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:23 pm
Because the forum is having a quiet moment.Nobody wrote:Why is a thread about carrying ID 5 pages long?
This has been done before but it has never reached 5 pages.
(If you don't carry an ID, there is something seriously wrong with you)
I can’t believe it . Some of my most popular threads have reached only 3 pages.
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Re: Do you carry ID
Postby sogood » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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