Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:06 am

TigerFilly wrote:I thought it looked like familiar countryside - my parents live(d) on the Tasman Highway. A lot further North though, up the top of a very steep, windy hill that gets lots and lots of cyclists going past. Considering the effort and time it takes my car to climb, I'm very impressed with anyone that can cycle it!

Which one? Is it Weldborough near the top of Weldborough Pass, or St Marys on the Old Tasman Hwy over the Elephant Pass?

I have climbed both of those, from both directions. Weldborough is the big one, about 12-14km climb up into the rainforest but it's a really beautiful ride - not really too hard if you've done a bit of cycling and hill work. Here is my daughter riding the climb when she was 13 yo..... riding in thongs

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Incidentally another good example of road positioning, on a quiet road but a main highway. Despite the winding bends and double lines we would never ride over on the far left edge. Any traffic coming through must deal with safe overtaking themselves. We will hear them in plenty of time and move a little more to the left to assist.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:14 pm

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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby kb » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:14 pm

find_bruce wrote: ... I had seen the parked cars ahead & rather than indicate early and make a positive move out, I was being lazy & careless.
casual_cyclist wrote:Useful example, thanks for sharing. And if you can learn from your mistakes then you will be far ahead of a lot of people I know.

I would much prefer to learn from the mistakes of others, but oh well


I'm mostly happy with my positioning but occasionally (tired generally, distracted by life) I'll be a bit careless and not claim my space. The difference is so noticeable and very reinforcing. Russel's initial opening:
...
I am a committed gutter rat. I am not brave enough to be a road hog.
...

seems quite backward to me. I'm not brave enough to ride in the gutter :-)
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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby TigerFilly » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:41 pm

il padrone wrote:Which one? Is it Weldborough near the top of Weldborough Pass?

I have climbed both of those, from both directions. Weldborough is the big one, about 12-14km climb up into the rainforest but it's a really beautiful ride - not really too hard if you've done a bit of cycling and hill work.

That's the one! Most people don't know Weldborough. Beautiful place!
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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Then you'd know Judith White at the pub? She's moved on I think (hope). We had an 'interesting' time there :|

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Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby RonK » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:03 pm

il padrone wrote:Then you'd know Judith White at the pub? She's moved on I think (hope). We had an 'interesting' time there :|

New owners had just taken over when I stayed there in 2009. They were just learning the ropes, but they needed to do a lot to get me to stay again.
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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:56 am

Classic "gutter-crawler" scenario shown here on the open road - Rob Lilwall on the Nullarbor. Look at 8:05, keeping way off to the left (in the gravel), and look at what happens.




It's just a two-lane road (of course) but there is clearly no oncoming traffic. If he'd have stayed in the correct position on the tarmac the trucks would have simply crossed over the line to overtake him, and probably done it a good bit slower than when they just close-shaved him.
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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby find_bruce » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:31 am

Christine Tham wrote:This is a video clip from yesterday's ride to work, and I think it is a good illustration of seamless integration with traffic, along with lane changes (I had to change lanes to overtake stopped buses 4 times).

Bit of a background for non-Sydneysiders: this is Military Rd from Mosman to North Sydney. This is the busiest road in Sydney, and during peak hour traffic crawls to under 20 km/h for all vehicles. This clip was taken at around 7am in the morning just before peak (15-30 mins later and the road will be a car park).

Lately I have been capping my speed to 40 km/h on this road, so that I have some power (headroom) to accelerate and change lanes, as stopped buses are quite common (although 4 is a bit unusual). For reference, my fastest time on this stretch prior to me capping the speed is an average of 45 km/h over the entire stretch (I am ranked second for this Strava segment behind Melissa N. who I know is a faster rider than me so there's no way I can beat her on the segment).

As you can hopefully see in the clip, reserving power for changing lanes works well as it allows me to change lanes early and seamlessly. Note that I am treated by other road vehicles just as a normal road user - everyone is well behaved. Although not shown in the clip, drivers will often slow down to allow me to change lanes (usually after I indicate with my hand, but often automatically without any signalling on my part).


Thanks for the video Christine - I commuted via the CBD to Manly for a conference last weekend, coincidentally using the route suggested in Manly to CBD commute and my experience along Military Road was very similar to that shown in your video, even though I was probably 10km/h slower than you.
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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby gobsec » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:22 pm

find_bruce wrote:
Christine Tham wrote:This is a video clip from yesterday's ride to work, and I think it is a good illustration of seamless integration with traffic, along with lane changes (I had to change lanes to overtake stopped buses 4 times).

Bit of a background for non-Sydneysiders: this is Military Rd from Mosman to North Sydney. This is the busiest road in Sydney, and during peak hour traffic crawls to under 20 km/h for all vehicles. This clip was taken at around 7am in the morning just before peak (15-30 mins later and the road will be a car park).

Lately I have been capping my speed to 40 km/h on this road, so that I have some power (headroom) to accelerate and change lanes, as stopped buses are quite common (although 4 is a bit unusual). For reference, my fastest time on this stretch prior to me capping the speed is an average of 45 km/h over the entire stretch (I am ranked second for this Strava segment behind Melissa N. who I know is a faster rider than me so there's no way I can beat her on the segment).

As you can hopefully see in the clip, reserving power for changing lanes works well as it allows me to change lanes early and seamlessly. Note that I am treated by other road vehicles just as a normal road user - everyone is well behaved. Although not shown in the clip, drivers will often slow down to allow me to change lanes (usually after I indicate with my hand, but often automatically without any signalling on my part).


Thanks for the video Christine - I commuted via the CBD to Manly for a conference last weekend, coincidentally using the route suggested in Manly to CBD commute and my experience along Military Road was very similar to that shown in your video, even though I was probably 10km/h slower than you.


i would like to add my thanks, too. watching this video makes a very pleasant change from watching those in the moron motorists thread! i was wondering if it would be as smooth a ride and if the drivers would be as considerate if you weren't such a strong rider and able to keep such a good average speed, but find_bruce's response answered that question.
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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby Christine Tham » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:37 pm

gobsec wrote:
i would like to add my thanks, too. watching this video makes a very pleasant change from watching those in the moron motorists thread! i was wondering if it would be as smooth a ride and if the drivers would be as considerate if you weren't such a strong rider and able to keep such a good average speed, but find_bruce's response answered that question.


Thanks.

Speed is not a major factor, provided you are above say 25 km/h. If you can sustain 30 km/h with some reserve I would say that's ample. When I started commuting I was riding a hybrid and I definitely wasn't that fast, but the experience was largely the same.

Having power in reserve is a really key factor. Ideally you want to cycle at a comfortable pace, just below the point where you can suddenly sprint with maximum torque, and you have to feel like you can sprint at any time. When you do accelerate, you should be able to suddenly increase speed 5-10 km/h - this signal to drivers you are serious and you know what you are doing.

For a good example of the "sudden acceleration" but in a non-commuting scenario, watch this video (taken late last year on a bunch ride to waterfall and back) around 17:20 - my speed accelerated from around 45km/h to around 55 km/h and I was able to keep contact with the leading two riders. I ended up finishing around 5th in the final sprint (where the max speed I recorded was 74 km/h) but I wasn't really "competing" that day - my main motivation was to be able to keep up with the leading pack so that I can video the final sprint.

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Re: Where to Ride-Gutter Rat or Road Hog?????????

Postby Hergest » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:02 pm

Christine Tham wrote:


For a good example of the "sudden acceleration" but in a non-commuting scenario, watch this video (taken late last year on a bunch ride to waterfall and back) around 17:20 - my speed accelerated from around 45km/h to around 55 km/h and I was able to keep contact with the leading two riders. I ended up finishing around 5th in the final sprint (where the max speed I recorded was 74 km/h) but I wasn't really "competing" that day - my main motivation was to be able to keep up with the leading pack so that I can video the final sprint.



That fast section at the end as you go towards Loftus Oval reminds me of when the Gong Ride ended there for a few years while they built Sea Cliff Bridge, At the end of a long ride that had lost a lot of its interest not going down to Wollongong, it was fantastic to fly the last couple of kilometres into the park. It made you feel alive again.

Impressive and motivating video, i watched it all the way through.
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