The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby wellington_street » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:29 pm
There's no "ideally" about it, the Clowncil and Main Roads have failed in their requirements.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby jules21 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:44 pm
interpretation of contradictory is more complex than you may think. a speed limit of 100 km/h does not mean you can slide off a bend at that speed, when in practice you needed to slow down to maintain grip between tyre and road. you will be fined if you try that. i doubt you'd have much success arguing the speed limit and any fine for excessive speed, despite being under the speed limit, was contradictory.wellington_street wrote:Contradictory signs and markings are not enforceable and any challenge in court would see the driver exonerated.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby wellington_street » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:50 pm
That's a very different circumstance as it involves a crash.jules21 wrote:interpretation of contradictory is more complex than you may think. a speed limit of 100 km/h does not mean you can slide off a bend at that speed, when in practice you needed to slow down to maintain grip between tyre and road. you will be fined if you try that. i doubt you'd have much success arguing the speed limit and any fine for excessive speed, despite being under the speed limit, was contradictory.wellington_street wrote:Contradictory signs and markings are not enforceable and any challenge in court would see the driver exonerated.
An appropriate speed limit example would be if you are driving along and there's speed limit signs on both sides of the carriageway - the one on the left says 80 and the one on the right says 100. You couldn't be booked for exceeding 80km/h (but below 100km/h) as the signs are contradictory.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby jules21 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:02 pm
i think this example is more clear cut than your original one. you may be right, it's outside my area of expertise really, but i suspect it's a bit subjective (i.e. subject to judicial interpretation).wellington_street wrote:An appropriate speed limit example would be if you are driving along and there's speed limit signs on both sides of the carriageway - the one on the left says 80 and the one on the right says 100. You couldn't be booked for exceeding 80km/h (but below 100km/h) as the signs are contradictory.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby Summernight » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:15 pm
This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?jules21 wrote:yeah, this is the problem - drivers are often just as likely to be dangerous when they're trying to be safe. recognition of this is why you can get away with just about anything when behind the wheel - just plead incompetence.hannos wrote:This is true Jules but... (/don devil's advocate hat)
Overtaking car starts to brake to drop back. Car being passed starts to brake to let overtaker in.
End result, both cars are still side-by-side and the on-coming vehicle is getting closer...
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby Undertow » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:42 pm
Why are you in the right hand lane if you aren't overtaking?Summernight wrote: This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?
When driving on a highway there should never be an empty space to your left, if there is you should merge into it, otherwise you are breaking the law (at least in queensland). On roads with speed limits of 90+ you MUST keep left unless overtaking.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby Summernight » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:45 pm
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby redned » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:14 pm
The responsibility to pass safely is the passers, not the passee. There is no such thing as "deliberately failing to allow an overtaking vehicle back onto the left side of the road". If it is not safe to pass, careless, dangerous, or culpable driving is in the hands of the passer.jules21 wrote:there are overarching obligations on drivers to take due care. deliberately failing to allow an overtaking vehicle back onto the left side of the road, knowing that your actions are increasing the risk of a (head-on) collision is undoubtedly a serious breach of road safety laws (often not in the road rules, i.e. in the form of careless, dangerous, culpable driving, etc.)
Having said that, if I can I am going to avoid being run off the road by some idiot passing dangerously, possibly risking being rear-ended or being shunted off the road into a tree. Culpability for the dangerous situation is, however, entirely the passers. Having just had a long weekend in WA and been in the Margaret River handicap, these situations are all too common.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby g-boaf » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:41 pm
And not too further on, Mr Pedestrian walking his dog, and the dog wasn't on a leash (in an area where that is not allowed). The dog ran straight across the front of me. Thank heavens I was only doing 15km/h. I was very tempted there and then to go straight back home. But I did end up going down to Western Sydney Regional park and back.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby uppo75 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:44 pm
Undertow wrote:Why are you in the right hand lane if you aren't overtaking?Summernight wrote: This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?
When driving on a highway there should never be an empty space to your left, if there is you should merge into it, otherwise you are breaking the law (at least in queensland). On roads with speed limits of 90+ you MUST keep left unless overtaking.
Actually, in QLD, you only have to keep out of the right lane.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queens ... -left.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On single-lane roads, drivers must stay as close as practical to the left side of the road.
When the speed limit is 90km/h or more on multi-lane roads, you must not drive in the right-hand lane unless you are:
overtaking
turning right
making a U-turn
avoiding an obstacle
driving in congested traffic.
It is an offence to drive in the right lane if none of the above criteria are occurring.
So all those slow people ,in the third lane from the left, on the 4 lane Freeway, are quite legal in doing so.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby TigerFilly » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:55 pm
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby InTheWoods » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:00 pm
uppo75 wrote:Actually, in QLD, you only have to keep out of the right lane.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queens ... -left.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On single-lane roads, drivers must stay as close as practical to the left side of the road.
When the speed limit is 90km/h or more on multi-lane roads, you must not drive in the right-hand lane unless you are:
overtaking
turning right
making a U-turn
avoiding an obstacle
driving in congested traffic.
It is an offence to drive in the right lane if none of the above criteria are occurring.
So all those slow people ,in the third lane from the left, on the 4 lane Freeway, are quite legal in doing so.
I was about to tell you you were wrong and what TMR has on the website means diddly squat and refer you to the actual road rules. But they say the same thing So thanks for that, I learnt something new today
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby AndrewBurns » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:26 am
Before I started running my friends and I were standing on the shared path while they adjusted their music playing devices, I was keeping well to the left (there was probably 10cm of pavement on my side before the dirt) but still three teenagers on crappy looking MTB's decided they should try to pass me on the left despite the lack of space and that they shouldn't have to slow down or ring their bell/call out before they did so. I was crouched down doing up a shoelace at the time and I stood up just as they were passing, forcing two of them to run off the path onto the dirt as the ~10cm of pavement to my left had just become occupied. They proceeded to yell back at me as if it were my fault that they tried to pass me on the wrong side of the path where there was no room at speed without indicating their intentions first Had half a mind to run them down because they weren't going all that fast but indifference prevailed.
On my ride home from my run I encountered a group of ~10 pedestrians walking 4 wide and a few deep across the shared path, which by itself is completely normal on this path at this time. I slowed down and called out that I was passing several times to no response. Not until I was riding at walking pace and weaving my way between them did they realise that there was somebody else trying to use the path as well. They weren't wearing headphones or anything, just far to engrossed in their own conversation.
On the same ride home I almost got SMIDSYed by a woman through a roundabout but that's for a different thread.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby Ross » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:52 am
Courtesy. And it makes for smooth traffic flow. It's not your job to enforce road rules (road rager tailgating the overtaker), that's what the police are for. Won't hurt you to speed up a bit or slow down a bit and change lanes so they can get to wherever they are going , or at least away from you.Summernight wrote: This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby biker jk » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:52 am
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby InTheWoods » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:16 am
So then I get mocking comments like "You're lit up like a Christmas tree... Well better to be safe than sorry" (I have my lights on during the day and have a fluoro jersey). To which I respond "It also helps if you don't run red lights".
Further down when turning onto Land St I indicate left (as do most) to which he asks "you turning left?", I suspect mocking me for indicating.
He then passes me, and begins squeezing between the cars & cyclists waiting at the lights at Land&Patrick Lane, and on approach cuts off the cyclist in front of me causing him to lock up his rear wheel, and then was attempting to run the red squeezing past the waiting cyclists, except it went green just as he got there.
He then jumped off the footpath at North Quay & Herschel and ran that red heading down North Quay after a short bit of salmoning.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby Boognoss » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:25 am
Temporary citizen.InTheWoods wrote:I'm flying down Sylvan Rd inbound and have the green light at Jephson St although it flicks to orange as I go through. Fixie rider on a black bike with black shoes, black socks, black shorts, black shirt, and black helmet comes flying up Croydon St from my left, cuts in between the two lanes of cars waiting at the red light, and runs the red to hook in right behind me. I yell "red light d*** h****". I thought he was going to T-bone me before he slowed a touch to get in behind.
So then I get mocking comments like "You're lit up like a Christmas tree... Well better to be safe than sorry" (I have my lights on during the day and have a fluoro jersey). To which I respond "It also helps if you don't run red lights".
Further down when turning onto Land St I indicate left (as do most) to which he asks "you turning left?", I suspect mocking me for indicating.
He then passes me, and begins squeezing between the cars & cyclists waiting at the lights at Land&Patrick Lane, and on approach cuts off the cyclist in front of me causing him to lock up his rear wheel, and then was attempting to run the red squeezing past the waiting cyclists, except it went green just as he got there.
He then jumped off the footpath at North Quay & Herschel and ran that red heading down North Quay after a short bit of salmoning.
I'd rather be a Christmas tree (which I am when commuting) than in a pine box.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby Undertow » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:43 am
Wow, i did not know that. I thought it was actually keep left. Does this mean I'm not allowed to get annoyed at those people in the 2nd and 3rd lanes going at 90kmh with empty lanes to their left?uppo75 wrote:Undertow wrote:Why are you in the right hand lane if you aren't overtaking?Summernight wrote: This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?
When driving on a highway there should never be an empty space to your left, if there is you should merge into it, otherwise you are breaking the law (at least in queensland). On roads with speed limits of 90+ you MUST keep left unless overtaking.
Actually, in QLD, you only have to keep out of the right lane.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Queens ... -left.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On single-lane roads, drivers must stay as close as practical to the left side of the road.
When the speed limit is 90km/h or more on multi-lane roads, you must not drive in the right-hand lane unless you are:
overtaking
turning right
making a U-turn
avoiding an obstacle
driving in congested traffic.
It is an offence to drive in the right lane if none of the above criteria are occurring.
So all those slow people ,in the third lane from the left, on the 4 lane Freeway, are quite legal in doing so.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby Saturnstarzz » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:59 am
Sunrise Falls creek Mt Beauty Side descending staying to the left having people pass me ( I'm doing around 50) on the inside.
Quite a few DNF's as people crashed and lot of "I want make up time on the down hill and dont care if about anyone else", seemed a bit silly to have 4 waves of competitors going starting in a big bunch rather than last year being 2 at a time.
Mt Buffalo going up only to have the "Tour Wannabes" coming down the hill on the wrong side of the ride 3 abreast..
Special mention goes to the guy ( who wasn't hurt btw) but rode off the side the road into a gully cause... "I didn't put my lights on cause I wanted to save weight".
Dumbest cyclist was me who hit gravel patch dropped it and took home some Gravel form the Victorian Alpine region as souvenir sadly no finishers jersey.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby wellington_street » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:00 pm
yes, that's correct, and the road rules of each state are specifically worded that way.uppo75 wrote: Actually, in QLD, you only have to keep out of the right lane.
"must not drive in the right lane"
"speed limit greater than 80km/h" (i.e. in practical terms, 90 zones or higher)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby wellington_street » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:04 pm
You're absolutely right, it does only come down to courtesy.Ross wrote:Courtesy. And it makes for smooth traffic flow. It's not your job to enforce road rules (road rager tailgating the overtaker), that's what the police are for. Won't hurt you to speed up a bit or slow down a bit and change lanes so they can get to wherever they are going , or at least away from you.Summernight wrote: This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?
I absolutely hate tailgaters, there is never ever any excuse to do something so dangerous, and so if I am being tailgated I have zero interest in being courteous. Courtesy goes both ways.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby Summernight » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:10 pm
Unfortunately it seems so. Those slowpoke people will see a happy Undertow from now on.Undertow wrote:Wow, i did not know that. I thought it was actually keep left. Does this mean I'm not allowed to get annoyed at those people in the 2nd and 3rd lanes going at 90kmh with empty lanes to their left?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:38 pm
Except if you are in a tunnel, the right lane, doing the speed limit of 80km/h and a truck is right behind you, headlights on high beam, tailgating you. You can't move left because that lane is blocked too, yet I'm moving faster than they are. What do you do, go at 95-100km/h - get a speeding ticket, just to satisfy the truck driver who is deliberately tailgating?wellington_street wrote:You're absolutely right, it does only come down to courtesy.Ross wrote:Courtesy. And it makes for smooth traffic flow. It's not your job to enforce road rules (road rager tailgating the overtaker), that's what the police are for. Won't hurt you to speed up a bit or slow down a bit and change lanes so they can get to wherever they are going , or at least away from you.Summernight wrote: This is what annoys me when some 'safe' backseat drivers say I should turn off my cruise control and slow down to let an overtaker on a 4-6 lane highway, with the motorcycle slicer wire cables in the middle between traffic directions, change back into the left/middle lane just because there is a road-rager tailgating the overtaker in the right-hand lane (who is usually already speeding anyway as my cruise is set on or just under the real (not odo) 100kph) . It makes me unpredictable if I change my speed so why should I?
I absolutely hate tailgaters, there is never ever any excuse to do something so dangerous, and so if I am being tailgated I have zero interest in being courteous. Courtesy goes both ways.
Some of these times, it'd be nice to have one of those Aston Martin DB5s that can release the spikes on the road, wrecking the tyres on the truck and its trailer.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby jules21 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:58 pm
gently slow down more and moreg-boaf wrote:Except if you are in a tunnel, the right lane, doing the speed limit of 80km/h and a truck is right behind you, headlights on high beam, tailgating you. You can't move left because that lane is blocked too, yet I'm moving faster than they are. What do you do, go at 95-100km/h - get a speeding ticket, just to satisfy the truck driver who is deliberately tailgating?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...
Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:32 pm
+1jules21 wrote:gently slow down more and moreg-boaf wrote:Except if you are in a tunnel, the right lane, doing the speed limit of 80km/h and a truck is right behind you, headlights on high beam, tailgating you. You can't move left because that lane is blocked too, yet I'm moving faster than they are. What do you do, go at 95-100km/h - get a speeding ticket, just to satisfy the truck driver who is deliberately tailgating?
What I do. If they don't like it, they change lanes, or just slow down themselves. If they hang on my bumper bar I will slow down more
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