National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

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National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:49 pm

Proceeding with Matthew Keenan's blessing. He was the first to envisage D2WD that we've been able to find, so we checked with him first and he's given us the green light :)
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by BNA » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:04 pm

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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby DavidS » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:04 pm

Looks like a goer. Monday, not school holidays. Now we need lots of that design as a sticker as we need to make sure the drivers know why the road is clogged even more than usual.

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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:12 pm

There will be alot of press and hopefully a few ads to compliment the full on social media campaign.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:37 pm

So tempted to multiprint at business card size and slip some under wipers in the staff parking.

[cynic]Somehow, riders will be made to look bad outta this.[/cynic]
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:51 pm

I'm going to have to say it - in places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen hey are getting more people riding by making cycling easier. Somehow a mass effort to cause greater congestion by less cycling does not seem to achieve that to my mind. It just comes across as a lot of spiteful negativity.

A humorous concept but I don't like your chances of getting away with it without a backlash :|

That's even if you do get enough response to make a noticeable difference. I suspect it may turn out a bit like the 'increased congestion' from New York's new closed off streets and separate bike lanes - people have found other solutions and there is no measurable increase in congestion. One day is easy for many people - take an RDO if you're worried about the traffic.


Sorry about the negativity, but I see this as a very negative piece of activism. :?
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby high_tea » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:10 pm

I too have doubts. I don't see it as negative or spiteful, but I'm uneasy about the idea that the main social benefit of cycling is reducing traffic congestion. It seems to pander to motorists' sense of entitlement. Transport policies that regard reducing traffic congestion as an end in itself irritate me no end (the idea, surely, is to transport people whether in ways affected by traffic congestion or not) and I'm equally dubious about activism that uses congestion to make a point.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:18 pm

Ah but chaps, it's not just about easing congestion. This is also about the safety of cyclists on a road network that is already under massive pressure in our capital cities. Nevertheless, this is the one day of the year when all those who diispute our rights on the black stuff will get to see what their alternative is. And besides, you can't get a Queensland State Minister to do anything for less than $11,000 these days, so lobbying is even less likely to have an impact on it's own up here at least.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby high_tea » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:28 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:Ah but chaps, it's not just about easing congestion. This is also about the safety of cyclists on a road network that is already under massive pressure in our capital cities. Nevertheless, this is the one day of the year when all those who diispute our rights on the black stuff will get to see what their alternative is. And besides, you can't get a Queensland State Minister to do anything for less than $11,000 these days, so lobbying is even less likely to have an impact on it's own up here at least.


My point is that it relies on traffic congestion for its impact.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:08 pm

Well, that is entirely the point. The one thing that in my experience angers motorists before they've even seen their first filtering cyclist every morning is the traffic they're stuck in. Many of them don't know what congestion is. Yet. We heed the calls to get what is perceived to be one of the biggest banes of their existance off "their" roads, but the sting in the tail is that we worsten their commuting experience by simply sitting doing exactly the same thing in driving from A to B for the day. It's so simple and such an effective vehicle for highlighting the need for cycling issues to be taken more seriously, and technically we're doing nothing that anyone can comp[lain about on the day.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby high_tea » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:34 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:Well, that is entirely the point. The one thing that in my experience angers motorists before they've even seen their first filtering cyclist every morning is the traffic they're stuck in. Many of them don't know what congestion is. Yet. We heed the calls to get what is perceived to be one of the biggest banes of their existance off "their" roads, but the sting in the tail is that we worsten their commuting experience by simply sitting doing exactly the same thing in driving from A to B for the day. It's so simple and such an effective vehicle for highlighting the need for cycling issues to be taken more seriously, and technically we're doing nothing that anyone can comp[lain about on the day.


Traffic congestion is not a problem. Traffic congestion is but one symptom of a problem: people taking longer than is optimal to get where they want to go. Solving traffic congestion gives priority to car travel time over other means of transport. Making an issue of traffic congestion, which is your stated purpose, gives credence to a way of thinking which is pathetically misguided: that transport policy is largely about optimising car journey times.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:39 pm

We both see things very differently. building another road to ease congestion is simply too expensive these days. Cost of new infrastructure now weighs roughly the same as cost of next election.
I'm intent on continuing to lobby, campaign and do what I can to keep cycling issues front and centre so when the Pollies start asking about the alternatives, cycling issues and solutions will be near the top of their lists.
London's first D2W Day in 2012 saw a noticeable increase in congestion on the day and it did help to focus greater attention on cycling issues, so result. This year they'll be improving on it and having even more impact.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby WestcoastPete » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:36 pm

I too feel the need to voice opposition to this project, as I have in the past. I feel that it's spiteful and vindictive, leading to more devisiveness and increasing the "us against them" mentality. To me it seems like a base action, looking at the problem too simply. I don't think it's a good way to promote cycling to others, and I feel that it will do the opposite of its goals of getting motorists to think "hey, there's a cyclist; I must be courteous because they're reducing congestion. Go cyclist!".

Just my opinion though...
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby high_tea » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:50 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:We both see things very differently. building another road to ease congestion is simply too expensive these days. Cost of new infrastructure now weighs roughly the same as cost of next election.
I'm intent on continuing to lobby, campaign and do what I can to keep cycling issues front and centre so when the Pollies start asking about the alternatives, cycling issues and solutions will be near the top of their lists.
London's first D2W Day in 2012 saw a noticeable increase in congestion on the day and it did help to focus greater attention on cycling issues, so result. This year they'll be improving on it and having even more impact.


Huh. They've announced some new infrastructure just down the road from me. A bike path: around $2 million. New road: $200 million. My dad always told me, One order of magnitude should probably get your attention - two definitely should*. I take two things away from this. One, the message that building another road to ease congestion is too expensive hasn't got through and two, easing traffic congestion is a priority and value-for-money (or anything else) be damned. This is a bridge over a train line in suburban Brisbane we're talking about, and they are going to spend roughly three times what they spent to (quite reasonably) ensure that the D'Aguilar Highway doesn't slide off the side of the Blackbutt Range any time soon. This is a generation's worth of spending on cycling infrastructure spent to get over one level crossing. Did I mention there's another bridge over the railway line all of about a kilometre away? I cannot think of a family-friendly :roll: way to describe this idiocy.

I'm all for greater attention on cycling issues, but "fixing traffic congestion" is a ridiculous idea. May I also point out that this is compatible with the view that cyclists don't belong on the road (for "the road", read "the road that I, the plucky Brisbane Motorist, am currently occupying). Anyway, good luck to you. As you may have gathered, I can't see myself taking part.

*Well, he should have!
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:33 am

Just posting its existence people. Just posting its existence.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby CatCanRide » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:38 am

My concern with this is that it wont really have enough of an effect.
Drivers in peak hour are used to being caught in traffic congestion and are just as likely to think that it is just another bad traffic day - and then the point of it gets lost.

Would actually love to see it have a powerful effect, so will watch to see the result with interest.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby g-boaf » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:53 pm

il padrone wrote:I'm going to have to say it - in places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen hey are getting more people riding by making cycling easier. Somehow a mass effort to cause greater congestion by less cycling does not seem to achieve that to my mind. It just comes across as a lot of spiteful negativity.

A humorous concept but I don't like your chances of getting away with it without a backlash :|

That's even if you do get enough response to make a noticeable difference. I suspect it may turn out a bit like the 'increased congestion' from New York's new closed off streets and separate bike lanes - people have found other solutions and there is no measurable increase in congestion. One day is easy for many people - take an RDO if you're worried about the traffic.


Sorry about the negativity, but I see this as a very negative piece of activism. :?


It's your right to drive - you pay rego for the car, why can't you drive? After all, they all want bikes off the ride to ease the slowness and congestion that bikes cause, because they ride all over the place and slow everyone down. Give the the critics what they want.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby hannos » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:57 am

g-boaf wrote:
It's your right to drive - you pay rego for the car, why can't you drive? After all, they all want bikes off the ride to ease the slowness and congestion that bikes cause, because they ride all over the place and slow everyone down. Give the the critics what they want.



Actually, driving is a privilege, not a right. This privilege is gained by earning a driver's license. Anyone can pay rego for a car.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:15 pm

g-boaf wrote:It's your right to drive - you pay rego for the car, why can't you drive

Incorrect.

g-boaf wrote:After all, they all want bikes off the ride to ease the slowness and congestion that bikes cause, because they ride all over the place and slow everyone down. Give the the critics what they want.

Sure , fun for a lark I guess.

I'd prefer to see some positive results however.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby twizzle » Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:50 pm

It would be fun to nominate one carpark in each capital city for the cyclists to drive to before unloading their bikes and riding to work. If I drive, I'm still likely to leave early in the morning, so I won't be contributing to congestion and I miss out on my ride. But If I dump my van in a car park for the day, I get to make a point AND I still get my ride in. Win-Win!
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby rkelsen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:46 pm

il padrone wrote:It just comes across as a lot of spiteful negativity.
...
Sorry about the negativity, but I see this as a very negative piece of activism. :?

+1.

Furthermore, I think you've got a hard sell. Nobody is going to want to drive on a day like that, when it'll be murder on the roads!

I just want to get to work and then back home in one piece. And I don't see the point of ruining someone else's day in order to achieve this humble goal.

Life is hard enough. Why do we have to try and make it harder?
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby twizzle » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:36 pm

Because I'm a spiteful bastard who rides on the roads every day, and rarely a day goes by without someone doing something either accidentally or more often deliberately to make my life miserable. Those a-holes should APPRECIATE that we aren't taking up a car space on the road or a parking space in a car park instead of bitching about rego and that roads are for cars and trying to intimidate or kill us.


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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:38 pm

Like I said - spiteful negativity :|

Better things to do with my day.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:47 am

I think many are misinterpreting the tone of this as well by the way. We aren't slamming our fists down on the negotiating table. We're simply looking them in the eyes and giving a sexy wink.
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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby twizzle » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:12 am

il padrone wrote:Like I said - spiteful negativity :|

Better things to do with my day.


Don't forget, at the appropriate time, to have a big complain about National Ride To Work day and how it ruins the day for everyone else.


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Re: National Drive2Work Day. Monday November 11.

Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:13 am

twizzle wrote:Don't forget, at the appropriate time, to have a big complain about National Ride To Work day and how it ruins the day for everyone else.

That's the other thing - I really doubt that it will. Part of the foolishness of motorists' complaints about cyclists is their ignorance of where the problem lies. Even in the inner suburbs of Melbourne cyclists only comprise 4% of commuters, generally its more like 1-2% of commuters. Say you get a good response and 50% of cycle commuters drive - that's a <1% increase to traffic (maybe 2% in the CBD). It will have far less impact than the difference between school holidays and regular term-time commuting.

I may be proven wrong but that's how I look at it. Not trying to rain on anybody's party, just how I see it.
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