Bates Diadrant fork track frame
-
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:51 pm
Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby dayne » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:53 pm
These i have not seen in australia but i do like the design.
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... bates.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Posts: 1518
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:40 am
- Location: NSW/ACT
- Contact:
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby Torana68 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:42 pm
-
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:51 pm
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby dayne » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:21 am
They look exactly the same to me but i should know more when it gets back from a acid bath
-
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:49 pm
- Location: Brisbane
- Contact:
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby freshpatents » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:23 pm
I'd say "definitely" an English Bates. I have one and the pencil thin stays on this one look similar to mine
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37626" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and others I've seen.
Great pick-up I'd say. If you are interested I can give you the contact details of the guy in the UK who holds the rights to the Bates name and lots of old Bates stuff, including decals, tube sets etc.
Also get onto flickr and have a look at this and other track frames
http://www.flickr.com/photos/makfreak/6 ... otostream/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:51 pm
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby dayne » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:21 pm
Not sure what im doing with it yet, English bikes are not my area and may just sell it to fund some other builds i think.
I would love to build it up all original though.
-
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:51 pm
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby dayne » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:21 pm
-
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:46 am
- Location: Southeast Tasmania
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby LG » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:51 am
-
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:51 pm
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby dayne » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:22 am
I'm now sure it's a bates, the lugs and cut outs and fork are all very bates, the fork curve looks less aggressive in the photos.
Ill put some primer on it when this rain stops.
-
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:11 pm
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby dubrat » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:45 pm
Exact seat stay caps and lugset I have seen on multiple English Bates frames.. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the Volante track model.
-
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:46 am
- Location: Southeast Tasmania
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby LG » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:06 pm
-
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:51 pm
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby dayne » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:28 pm
Its serial H and 2822
7000's were 1938
8000's were 1939
So im guessing 1934-35 as 34 is when the diadrant fork came in and the M could be built by H.R Morris?
Frame numbering system
The frame numbering system used by Bates does not carry any code to denote the year or month of manufacture. It is purely sequential. The larger the number, the later the frame.
Some examples of frame numbers and year of manufacture:
Frame Number Year
U8827 31 May 1938 B.A.R.
9788z 1939 Bates Ideal
010663 U 1944 or 45 B.A.R (Bates Brothers)
V1E 15977 May 1951 Vegrandis (Bates of London)
17440 E 1954 Vegrandis (one of the first built at Westcliff)
VO 17540 10 September 1954
17702 B April 1956 B.A.R (Bates of Westcliff)
17887 1958 Vegrandis
Most of the craftsmen who built the frames were racing men and, unlike many in the business, they were salaried rather than paid 'piecework', so there was no temptation to cut corners. One of these craftsmen was Stan Butler, a master frame builder who raced a Bates himself. After the war he went into partnership with Ching Allin to set up Allin cycles. Stan also built frames for the 1948 Olympic team. Another skilled frame builder at Bates was HR Morris, who later went on to build highly-regarded frames under his own name.
There are full details of several built-up Bates in Readers' Bikes
-
- Posts: 1518
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:40 am
- Location: NSW/ACT
- Contact:
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby Torana68 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:44 am
Its serial H and 2822
7000's were 1938
8000's were 1939 So im guessing 1934-35 as 34 is when the diadrant fork came in and the M could be built by H.R Morris?
if you have a look at the Classic Lightweights UK site (as quoted) you will see a Volant track would have VOL or VO or perhaps nothing (frame id is painfull!) there is no H prefix noted nor M (wheres the M stamped?). Im not able to see photos at work (more and better would be good the originals dont help much) but from memory the head lugs are 50's not prewar ones, the rear frame ends likewise. Pre war would be heavily chromed, I couldnt see signs of chrome anywhere but again better pickies would be good. How about some close up's of the head tube and lugs, front rear frame ends and seat lug?
-
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:24 pm
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby peterk » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:01 pm
-
- Posts: 1518
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:40 am
- Location: NSW/ACT
- Contact:
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby Torana68 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:15 am
yep they look classy not gumby, but better photos of the frame in question could change that opinion.
-
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:51 pm
- WyvernRH
- Posts: 3184
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:41 pm
- Location: Newcastle NSW
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby WyvernRH » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:25 pm
Now I must admit I have never seen a track Bates, only touring models but the double curve in the forks seems very short (or maybe 'tight') compared to ones I've seen in real life. Could be this is cos it's a track frame or maybe they have been replaced with a copy made from a straight blade, possibly when the headset conversion was done? (Maybe that's why it was done?)
Are there any numbers on the fork steerer tube? Does it have a slot at the top possibly? From what you can see in the photos, the crown also looks very simple given the ornate lugwork.
Cheers
Richard
-
- Posts: 1518
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:40 am
- Location: NSW/ACT
- Contact:
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby Torana68 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:52 pm
-
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:51 pm
Re: Bates Diadrant fork track frame
Postby dayne » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:50 pm
Thanks guys, Its a hard one too get much info on.
I will get some more shots later, the fork steerer has no markings on it
I's a shame but i was hoping to build it up but too many other projects so it's hitting the market place.
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.