Alfine 11 Hub with a Schlumpf High Speed Drive

[Aushiker]

I am playing around with the idea of purchasing a Sinner Mango (see this thread about living with a Velomobile) and one of the issues with this is trying to get a Sinner Mango setup to do as much as possible for me, i.e., be a commuter and be a tourer. There has been some discussion about gearing in the Recumbent forum here and elsewhere and it has lead me to the possibility of a Alfine 11 speed hub combined with a 34t Schlumpf High Speed Drive.

I am guessing that there are a few members who have a clue about gearing, gear inches, Alfine hubs etc who may not hangout in the recumbent forum hence this post here flagging the discussion over there. If you have some ideas on what is being proposed, maybe other ideas etc please do drop over to the thread. I have posted a couple of gear inches calculations which hopefully help with the discussion.

Thanks
Andrew

[Ross]

Sorry I for thread hijack but I am surprised more commuter/hybrid/recreational bikes don't come with Alfine or similar hub gears. I would think they are a much better system than derailleurs which go out of adjustment, stretch/break cavles and are sensitive to knocks/crashes.

[eldavo]

I remembered your chasing gearing when I saw this:
http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/dualdrive-27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

654%

[il padrone]

I have always found this gear step comparison table very enlightening. On that basis I really do not much care for the Alfine 8 (the Alfine shown here is the 8 ), not sure whether the 11 is any better.




[edit] Ah, here is the gear step diagram for the Alfine 11. It looks much better than the 8.



Personally with a regular touring bike I find the Rohloff great. It has a range similar to the MTB gearing I used to have (just a little narrower than the 9 sp, I lose a top gear but that is no bother). I would expect that a velomobile would need a wider range still ie. very low for sustained climbs and a quite high gear for long fast flat riding. On that basis I would love a Rohloff-equipped Mango, but think that would demand something like a Schlumpf to extend the range. From your gear table - 18" to 183" certainly gives a huge range.

Looking at your gear table, that gives you a speed range (in my preferred 90-100 cadence) of about 8-9kmh low up to about 90kmh top gear. You need this low range, but I do think that any top gear over about 60kmh loses its relevance. Unless you're an elite racer trying for a speed record. For us mere mortals, once you're doing over 50-60kmh the main things you'll be focusing on are control and braking, especially in any traffic or on descents. Pedaling, at these speeds, makes a minimal difference to your speed anyway. On a regular bike the major benefit is to get into a good tuck, but the velo has already achieved this

[MattyK]

Ah, here is the gear step diagram for the Alfine 11. It looks much better than the 8.

As it should be at twice the price.

The Alfine/Nexus 8 is fine for casual use (ie everything except racing) when you are not bothered by a change of cadence.

[il padrone]

Defining 'casual use' as "everything except racing" is an odd approach. I do no racing, but don't class my riding as casual. Commuting, touring, Audax, MTB. I would get very p!$$3d off, very quickly with a gear range like the Alfine 8.

[MattyK]

Are you saying that based on experience or conjecture?

[eldavo]

I just ordered a bike with Alfine 8 bike after seeing:
- the top gears matched to the 11
- the 8 has 1:1 direct drive about where I climb the small hills in my commute (the 11 is a 0.995:1 no direct)
- and the 11 has the benefit of two shorter ratios than the 8 that are for hills I don't see on my coastal dunes habitat
- if oil is your preference to grease, there is a Shimano service bulletin for running an 8 with oil

My use is much narrower less elevated urban commuter specific than il padrone, and would agree with all the criticisms of an 8 for his serious riding all-terrain uses.

[il padrone]

Are you saying that based on experience or conjecture?

Not quite sure what you mean by that??? I have plenty of experience riding all sorts of gear set-ups, good and bad. Played around lots with old freewheels and half-step, double-step etc gearing in the past. 30+ years of experience. I know what works, what I like. Big jumps and odd irregular gear jumps I do not like; the Alfine 8 appears to have this. A narrow gear range of just 300% does not meet my needs for touring.

I have not ridden an Alfine 8, but observed friends riding them enough to know they have a lot less range than the Rohloff. If you're implying that because I have not ridden one my comments are not valid...... well fine. I disagree.

[MattyK]

I would say that "Played around lots with old freewheels and half-step, double-step etc gearing in the past. 30+ years of experience. I know what works, what I like. Big jumps and odd irregular gear jumps I do not like" would qualify as experience. For me, it's entirely satisfactory. Maybe I say that from the perspective of ignorance, but I don't find the gear gaps too large to work around. Pedal fast in 5th, or pedal slower in 6th, no biggie, by that point I'm usually pointing downhill anyway. I don't spend enough time in 1st to be worried by the jump to 2nd. The rest of the gear jumps are relatively small.

But then you're also arguing that 300% is not enough range for you, which is a separate issue entirely. Of course the Alfine 8 has less range than the Rohloff, that's never been questioned. If 300% doesn't meet your requirements then by all means look elsewhere. Again, for me, it's more than adequate.

[Baalzamon]

Aushiker has mentioned using the Schlumpf HSD as well. This in effect will double the number of gears he has. However there will be overlap. When I investigated a schlumpf for my rohloff, I put the figures into a calculator and was suprised with what I found. I was going to get it until I saw that data... For spending roughly $700 I would have effectively gotten 3 near gears with the other 11 being an overlap. Can't remember what calculator I used, but found it via google most likely

[il padrone]

So is this a Rohloff in your touring bike, or have you got a Rohloff in a velomobile?

[Baalzamon]

So is this a Rohloff in your touring bike, or have you got a Rohloff in a velomobile?

Rohloff was in my Thorn. Supercommuter owns that now
Velomobile is on wish list.