Cracked brand new bike!
- BianchiCam
- Posts: 667
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:42 pm
- Location: Sunny Coast. Oop Norf!
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby BianchiCam » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:20 pm
Did the bike shop not 'fit' the bike to your sizing before heading off? If they did why change the seat height?
My lbs explained to me not to touch anything without a torque wrench.
Hope you get the outcome you want.
Cam
-
- Posts: 2754
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:37 pm
- Location: depends on who is asking, and why.
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby master6 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:27 pm
- birdbrain
- Posts: 811
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:16 pm
- Location: tulla melb
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby birdbrain » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:51 pm
The store owners comments are fair enough AFAIC but it possibly boils down to whether there was a written warning about the seatpost with the purchase and whether you were negligent when you adjusted the position of it.Dan_1983 wrote:
Hi all,
I took the plunge and bought a new Giant Defy Advanced 2 on Saturday from an authorised dealer. While adjusting the seat to a lower position I noticed a crack in the lower back part of the frame (not seat post). Bike had not been riden more than a couple of hundred metres down the road.
Took it back to the dealer today and the store owner is claiming that the frame can crack if the nuts are not properly tightened, or if the seat is pushed down too far without the bottom of the post being sawn off, and if this is the case it is not covered by warranty. I have read the warranty and there is nothing in the manual about potentially cracking the frame from adjusting the seat! The only mention is that it can affect your safety.
I am obviously very dissapointed with this, the sales guy made no mention of this, who in their right mind would buy a bike if the sales person made note of how the frame could crack with a seat adjustment.
I would appreciate any help as to where you think i stand,
cheers
I would contact Giant and get a ruling from them.
- tallywhacker
- Posts: 1775
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:21 pm
- Location: Perth
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby tallywhacker » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:04 pm
and made of steelmaster6 wrote:Get a real bike with a horizontal top tube.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:37 pm
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby dan_1983m » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:25 pm
- London Boy
- Posts: 818
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:43 pm
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby London Boy » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:00 pm
Um, allthat says it you should not tighten the seat post bolt more than 5Nm. Does it specify a minimum? The issue does not appear to be that the bolt was over-tightened, but that the post went too far down into the seat tube.SmellyTofu wrote:It does say on the seatpost clamp "5Nm Max". Can't be more clearer than that.
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby toolonglegs » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:10 pm
It is a shame the OP didn't say the seat post slipped on his first ride and he hadn't touched it after leaving the shop... but if I understand right the OP adjusted the saddle height, didn't do the post up tight enough, it slipped down on a ride and damaged the frame?.
Is so you may have to fight it out because I wouldn't want to replace a frame that someone had damaged by not knowing what they were doing.
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:37 pm
This would make sense for the assumed location of damage (still waiting for a photo). I can't imagine how hand pressure from saddle height adjustments can crack the CF seat tube, certainly not without hearing and feeling it.toolonglegs wrote:...adjusted the saddle height, didn't do the post up tight enough, it slipped down on a ride and damaged the frame?
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:37 pm
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby dan_1983m » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:07 pm
will post one tomorrow, had to leave perth for a couple of days for worksogood wrote:This would make sense for the assumed location of damage (still waiting for a photo). I can't imagine how hand pressure from saddle height adjustments can crack the CF seat tube, certainly not without hearing and feeling it.toolonglegs wrote:...adjusted the saddle height, didn't do the post up tight enough, it slipped down on a ride and damaged the frame?
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:37 pm
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby dan_1983m » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:12 pm
toolonglegs wrote:Poor workmanship is clearly not covered in any warranty... if you don't know what you are doing you shouldn't touch it.
It is a shame the OP didn't say the seat post slipped on his first ride and he hadn't touched it after leaving the shop... but if I understand right the OP adjusted the saddle height, didn't do the post up tight enough, it slipped down on a ride and damaged the frame?.
Is so you may have to fight it out because I wouldn't want to replace a frame that someone had damaged by not knowing what they were doing.
Didnt get a chance to ride it after adjusting the seat, was trying to lower the seat height, in retrospect it wouldnt go down (presumambly because seat post was too long), so I did put push the seat to try to lower it, but didnt get a chance to ride it. ie seat not going down, me pushing on seat with body weight to try to get post to slide down
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:26 pm
That force can vary a lot I guess.dan_1983m wrote:...seat not going down, me pushing on seat with body weight to try to get post to slide down
Rule 1: Never force anything. If force is required, it's not done properly.
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby toolonglegs » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:35 pm
The question begs to be asked... surely there a bit of latitude on the post ( I had to cut a cannondale one once for a shorter lady... although it turned out the measurements she gave me were wrong ) ... why did it need to go down so far?... unless you frame was too big.
- InTheWoods
- Posts: 1900
- Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:34 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby InTheWoods » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:37 pm
Page 10
Fail.re-tighten the seat post clamp to the recommended torque (appendix D)
Page 11
Fail.Always tighten fasteners to the correct torque
Page 12
Fail.A loose saddle clamp or seat post binder can cause damage to the seat post
Page 36 Appendix D
Fail.Always use a correclty calibrated torque wrench to tighten critical fasteners on your bike ... Although all fasteners on a bicycle are important, pay special attention to applying the correct torque to the following critical fasteners: #3 seat post clamp ...
Page 37
(max 5.0Nm marked on post itself)Seatpost binder bolt M4 1.9-3.9Nm
What torque did you use, or did you just take a guess?
Fail.
Page 41 Giant Warranty
Oops.Exclusions ... Damage caused by failing to follow the owner's manual
I also got manuals for all the components. This includes the Vector Seatpost Guide. Not sure if the shop gave you this or not.
Fail.If the saddle cannot be lowered far enough for proper fit because the seatpost meets the seattube curve inside the frame, the seatpost must be cut.
Fail.[paraphrase of a table]M size frame - minimum saddle height 71.5mm. If you need less than that, you need to cut it.
Fail. This is clearly the one where you failed big time.WARNING - be slow and careful when inserting the seatpost into the seattube. Too much downward force may damage the frame and or the seatpost ... It will damage the frame if the seatpost reaches the seattube curve shape when riding the bike
Having said that, why wasn't the seat post at the correct height anyway, didn't the shop do a bit of a bike fit and adjust it for you before you left the shop? If they left the saddle at the minimum which was still too high for you, then possibly you have the wrong frame size, but the shop should have set it at the right height and cut the post for you, so they should perhaps wear a portion of the blame for being lazy, if this was the case.
-
- Posts: 10316
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby Nobody » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:44 pm
There's also that other rule which goes something like, "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer."sogood wrote:Rule 1: Never force anything. If force is required, it's not done properly.
- Bob_TAS
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:39 pm
- Location: Blacktown
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby Bob_TAS » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:46 pm
Maybe rejuvenate a nice steel frame and cut your losses?
-
- Posts: 10316
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby Nobody » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:50 pm
Or just speed up the whole process by getting it repaired yourself.Bob_TAS wrote: On second thoughts, after reading through this thread I don't think the ACCC can help you.
Maybe rejuvenate a nice steel frame and cut your losses?
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby toolonglegs » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:55 pm
yes, unless the op REALLY forced it, I can't seeing it being much more than a carbon wrap on the down tube, shouldn't be too difficult.Nobody wrote:Or just speed up the whole process by getting it repaired yourself.Bob_TAS wrote: On second thoughts, after reading through this thread I don't think the ACCC can help you.
Maybe rejuvenate a nice steel frame and cut your losses?
- Bob_TAS
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:39 pm
- Location: Blacktown
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby Bob_TAS » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:56 pm
True that. My experience with carbon is limited to forks and posts, so may be a little blind to that optionNobody wrote:Or just speed up the whole process by getting it repaired yourself.Bob_TAS wrote: On second thoughts, after reading through this thread I don't think the ACCC can help you.
Maybe rejuvenate a nice steel frame and cut your losses?
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:15 pm
Yeah, I adhered to "that other rule" until one day my thumb got flattened. It's now a rule that's only judiciously applied.Nobody wrote:There's also that other rule which goes something like, "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer."sogood wrote:Rule 1: Never force anything. If force is required, it's not done properly.
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby sogood » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:17 pm
Maybe Giant will be generous to a first time buyer. Fingers crossed on the ruling and a lesson learnt.Nobody wrote:Or just speed up the whole process by getting it repaired yourself.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:37 pm
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby dan_1983m » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:53 pm
- AUbicycles
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15587
- Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
- Location: Sydney & Frankfurt
- Contact:
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby AUbicycles » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:04 pm
-
- Posts: 3540
- Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: 3166
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby kukamunga » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:19 am
Was this the case? I know a few bike shops that are a bit slack at passing on all relevant manuals to customersInTheWoods wrote:If you didn't get a Giant Bicycle Owner's Manual with the bike then that would help your cause........I also got manuals for all the components. This includes the Vector Seatpost Guide. Not sure if the shop gave you this or not.......
As a recent Head Mechanic at 99Bikes, myself and the shop had an almost foolproof system of filing ALL provided manuals and spare bits and bobs AS PROVIDED BY THE SUPPLIER (even the QR skewer instructions*) into a Delivery Envelope with Bike Model, Serial Number, completed tick-the-boxes Checklist, and Bike Builders name all printed clearly on the front
If this was done by the OP's LBS, and the manuals clearly state what "InTheWoods" states above, then:
+1.InTheWoods wrote:Having said that, why wasn't the seat post at the correct height anyway, didn't the shop do a bit of a bike fit and adjust it for you before you left the shop? If they left the saddle at the minimum which was still too high for you, then possibly you have the wrong frame size, but the shop should have set it at the right height and cut the post for you, so they should perhaps wear a portion of the blame for being lazy, if this was the case.
(* You'll be surprised at how many new bike customers DO NOT know how to use QR skewers, and come back with simple problems relating to this - I can understand why front forks have "lawyers tips" on them)
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby Derny Driver » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:12 am
Ok so you made a mistake, youve admitted that. These things happen.
First thing to do is to realise that the LBS who sold you the bike dont give a rats about your problem. They are too busy to have time to chase this up for you. So what you have to do is go straight to Giant Australia with a letter, email, phonecall or all 3. GIANT is the largest bicycle manufacturer in the world and they value their reputation. These frames come out of Taiwan at a cost to Giant of probably less than a hundred bucks. Just ask Giant Australia for a new frame and they will give you one. Get a friend or bike shop to transfer all the running gear onto the new frame.
In your letter, make the following points
Explain what happened, admit your mistake and tell them that you are not seeking a warranty replacement. Ask them if they could please send you a new frame if you send the cracked one back to them. This is preferable to having a cracked or repaired frame floating around on the market or on the road bringing bad kudos to the Giant brand and highlighting the design flaw which allowed this to happen. Tell them that all your friends, bike club members and 20,000 people on the BNA forum are horrified that such simple mistake could destroy a Giant frame and want to see whether Giant will be generous and fix the problem or not.
Think about it Dan. Will the world's biggest bike frame manufacturer want the bad press for the sake of a frame which will cost them virtually nothing to replace?
I myself bought a second hand Malvern Star C6 on Ebay, checked it when I picked it up, paid and took it home to find the frame was cracked. Lifetime frame warrany for the original owner, but not for me. I had the same dilemma. Repair it? Keep riding it? LBS / MS dealers didnt want to know but a friend told me to ring the MS head office in Melbourne. I wrote a nice email, got a phonecall the next day and they replaced it within a week. Old fashioned service. They were happy to get the cracked frame out of circulation. In return they now have a very loyal MS customer and I would buy the Australian product with their committment to customer service over overseas products any day. My nephew bought an expensive Cannondale frame from the UK, it has developed a problem, and he has nowhere to turn except to his wallet. You have GIANT Australia. Go straight to them.
-
- Posts: 10316
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Cracked brand new bike!
Postby Nobody » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:28 am
No surprise there. I don't any bike stuff on eBay anymore.Derny Driver wrote:I myself bought a second hand Malvern Star C6 on Ebay, checked it when I picked it up, paid and took it home to find the frame was cracked...
Return to “General Cycling Discussion”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: grt046
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.