Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Jason Robbins » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:11 pm

Proposed Coastal Dune Boardwalk (Promenade) – North of Scarborough Beach to the South of Trigg

Salutations Everyone,

This proposal is now out for public comment and I would really appreciate you (the daily cyclists of WA) making submissions, just click on the link, have a read of the concept then email: [email protected] or me direct on [email protected] and please offer your support; this will be an awesome link which will separate us from the pedestrians.

http://www.stirling.wa.gov.au/About-the ... mment.aspx

I am supporting ‘Option C’ as carried at council, which will create a cyclists only path.

Tourism WA supports it, believing it has great potential and this will reduce risk to all, as the path is a horrible ride.

Thanks for your submissions.

Regards,
Jason Robbins
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by BNA » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:42 pm

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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby moosterbounce » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:42 pm

I'll have a read over the weekends, thanks Jason. This is an area I ride regularly so separating the peds and bikes would be good.

I've moved this into the WA specific board as we tend to lurk here quite a bit :wink:
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby rolandp » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:56 am

Hi Jason, thanks for the heads up on this one. Are you aware of any improvements to either trigg or Scarborough beach entrances, which from my cycling perspective are poor and a number of us use the road to avoid the shared path. I have personally provided feedback to the Scarborough beach proposals, and we are currently riding through the car park if we want to continue on the shared path.
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Aushiker » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:48 am

In all honesty, I think the idea of a boardwalk is nice but of questionable environmental value and from the perspective of improving the cycling/pedestrian interaction situation, this is being done in a relatively low interaction/risk area and hence will add little value.

For starters the southern descent section from West Coast Highway to The Esplanade (?) is one area for example that this sort of treatment would be of far more benefit, as would getting through and north of Trigg Beach, as would fixing the roundabout at the northern end of Trigg Beach car-park (cutting back the vegetation for starters and putting in a big speed bump would make this a much safer road environment - not great expense and it may save a life), cycling lanes on West Coast Drive are just a few issues needing urgent attention.

Nice to get improved cycling infrastructure for sure as a result of infrastructure for pedestrians (lets not kid ourselves and think this is about cyclists, its not) but tinkering at the edges blowing what little money is available, no thanks.

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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Red Rider » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:50 am

My sentiments also Andrew. A big benefit of cycling is that it is an environmentally responsible form of transport. So if the choice is either sharing a path or separating the cyclists and pedestrians and creating further environmental impacts, I choose the shared path. There are precious little dune systems in Perth, any impacts on them must be very carefully considered.

Having said that, I recognise the benefits to tourism and amenity. A raised boardwalk such as option A would have a very small environmental impact and a great walk to appreciate the dunes.

At any rate, the overall benefit to cyclists will be minor, the current path is adequate for recreational use, on-road cycling infrastructure is much preferred.
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby CycleSnail » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:19 pm

I wonder if this is part of a larger solution that will eventually make this area more attractive to all kinds of active transport.

In isolation it would take pedestrians away from the shared path - and one would have to see if in fact ALL pedestrians would start using the boardwalk.

I would like to understand the overall picture - there was a draft City of Stirling Bike Plan floating around - is this tied into it?
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Aushiker » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:46 pm

CycleSnail wrote:I wonder if this is part of a larger solution that will eventually make this area more attractive to all kinds of active transport.

In isolation it would take pedestrians away from the shared path - and one would have to see if in fact ALL pedestrians would start using the boardwalk.

I would like to understand the overall picture - there was a draft City of Stirling Bike Plan floating around - is this tied into it?


I don' think it has too much to do with the cycle plan and/or active transport. It has been an issue of community discussion for sometime.

The most recent threat to the integrity of the coastal reserve was a proposal in 2005 to build a 700 metre long boardwalk through the sand dunes between Scarborough and Trigg Beaches for the Australian Surf Life Saving Championships. Fortunately, public submissions were overwhelmingly opposed to the boardwalk proposal and it was eventually rejected by the City of Stirling. However, it illustrated that despite the highest protection currently available, development proposals can still be considered because the Class "A" classification allows the reserve to be used for conservation, education and recreation purposes.
- http://www.triggbushland.org.au/SouthTrigg.htm

Petition against the boardwalk - http://www.communityrun.org/petitions/s ... tion-group

"No choice at all" - http://www.inmycommunity.com.au/news-an ... l/7636795/

"Boardwalk eyesore fears" - http://stirling.inmycommunity.com.au/ne ... s/7630419/

The above should give you a taste of the discussion so far. I suspect not all residents agree with Jason :)

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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Jason Robbins » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:34 pm

CycleSnail wrote:I wonder if this is part of a larger solution that will eventually make this area more attractive to all kinds of active transport.

In isolation it would take pedestrians away from the shared path - and one would have to see if in fact ALL pedestrians would start using the boardwalk.

I would like to understand the overall picture - there was a draft City of Stirling Bike Plan floating around - is this tied into it?


The bigger picture is that a dedicated cycle path will run through the Scarborough beach area as part pf the SEAS project that the state government has taken on.
North of Trigg, the view with in-principle agreement, is to remove the medians on West Coast Dve, create dedicated cycle lanes and drop the speed limit to 40km/hr

This is just the start, please email your support.

Happy Easter to All.

Cheers,
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Jason Robbins » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:41 pm

Aushiker wrote:
CycleSnail wrote:I wonder if this is part of a larger solution that will eventually make this area more attractive to all kinds of active transport.

In isolation it would take pedestrians away from the shared path - and one would have to see if in fact ALL pedestrians would start using the boardwalk.

I would like to understand the overall picture - there was a draft City of Stirling Bike Plan floating around - is this tied into it?


I don' think it has too much to do with the cycle plan and/or active transport. It has been an issue of community discussion for sometime.

The most recent threat to the integrity of the coastal reserve was a proposal in 2005 to build a 700 metre long boardwalk through the sand dunes between Scarborough and Trigg Beaches for the Australian Surf Life Saving Championships. Fortunately, public submissions were overwhelmingly opposed to the boardwalk proposal and it was eventually rejected by the City of Stirling. However, it illustrated that despite the highest protection currently available, development proposals can still be considered because the Class "A" classification allows the reserve to be used for conservation, education and recreation purposes.
- http://www.triggbushland.org.au/SouthTrigg.htm

Petition against the boardwalk - http://www.communityrun.org/petitions/s ... tion-group

"No choice at all" - http://www.inmycommunity.com.au/news-an ... l/7636795/

"Boardwalk eyesore fears" - http://stirling.inmycommunity.com.au/ne ... s/7630419/

The above should give you a taste of the discussion so far. I suspect not all residents agree with Jason :)

Andrew


Andrew, ask yourself who these people are? Where do they live? What is their interest?

They have publicly mislead by misinformation, below is a quote from the

Minister of the Environment on Sunday -
A boardwalk through the reserve between Trigg and Scarborough could well fall within the definition of a boutique destination, would certainly be a link between them, is adjacent or through conservation areas and would definitely increase public awareness and inters=action with valuable coastal ecosystems
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby CycleSnail » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:03 am

Jason Robbins wrote:
The bigger picture is that a dedicated cycle path will run through the Scarborough beach area as part pf the SEAS project that the state government has taken on.
North of Trigg, the view with in-principle agreement, is to remove the medians on West Coast Dve, create dedicated cycle lanes and drop the speed limit to 40km/hr

This is just the start, please email your support.

Happy Easter to All.

Cheers,
Jason Robbins


The mods to West Coast drive would be positive. However, where cars and bicycles mix the safe speed is 30kmh.
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Marty Moose » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:15 am

CycleSnail wrote:
Jason Robbins wrote:
The bigger picture is that a dedicated cycle path will run through the Scarborough beach area as part pf the SEAS project that the state government has taken on.
North of Trigg, the view with in-principle agreement, is to remove the medians on West Coast Dve, create dedicated cycle lanes and drop the speed limit to 40km/hr

This is just the start, please email your support.

Happy Easter to All.

Cheers,
Jason Robbins


The mods to West Coast drive would be positive. However, where cars and bicycles mix the safe speed is 30kmh.

Who would or could sit on 30kph with a sea breeze behind them?? Good news Jason! cyclesnail I hope you have nothing to do with it.

Really if its s dedicated lane I can't see how 50 as it stands being an issue I ride that stretch everyday its not too bad as it is. The islands are stupid though, I'm gobsmacked that someone A got paid to design them and B The rest of us had to pay for them.

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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Jason Robbins » Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:14 pm

I agree with you, in keeping West Coast Dve at 50km/hr.

I have had issues in the past in relation to placing islands in the middle of the roads, traffic engineers use this to stop people overtaking. So, it serves a purpose, in my view West Coast Dve would improve dramatically by removing them and installing the cycle lanes.

I will certainly be supporting any proposal that helps cyclists and provides continuity from 'a' to 'b' in-lieu of this piece meal approach. That is another reason why I support the boardwalk, if we get the numbers this could all happen in parallel with each other.
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby RobertFrith » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:44 am

Jason Robbins wrote:Andrew, ask yourself who these people are? Where do they live? What is their interest?

They have publicly mislead by misinformation, below is a quote from the

Minister of the Environment on Sunday -
A boardwalk through the reserve between Trigg and Scarborough could well fall within the definition of a boutique destination, would certainly be a link between them, is adjacent or through conservation areas and would definitely increase public awareness and inters=action with valuable coastal ecosystems

Jason, your first three questions are reasonable and I'm sure they will be answered. In the spirit of transparency I think it's time you declared yourself; who are you? Where do you live? What is your interest?

As much as I'm interested in better cycling facilities I have a stronger interest in seeing any remnant bush, other natural areas and systems preserved and enhanced in the metro area. Well, in the state actually. As Redrider said, improved cycling facilities should not come at a cost to the dune system.

Without wishing to get overly political :D Bill Marmion continues a long tradition of West Australian Ministers for the the Environment in completely ignoring the interests of the environment. Quoting schmucks adds little to your argument.
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Aushiker » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:56 am

Jason Robbins wrote:Andrew, ask yourself who these people are? Where do they live? What is their interest?


Ahh why would I bother? I was simply highlighting to Cyclesnail that this was a long standing issue. Please try and read in context.

As Robert asks, please declare your associations up front. Are you views your own or those of the City of Stirling? Are a councillor at the City of Stirling or an employee or a concerned resident or a developer Mr Robbins? Do you represent another organisation?

As to your questions, can you answer them? Are you saying that people of the state have no right to comment? That local residents have no right to comment? I assume you also going by your questions have access to the petition(s) and hence who signed them which intrigues me also.

Regards
Andrew
Last edited by Aushiker on Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Aushiker » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:05 pm

Ahh the joys of Google.

It seems Mr Jason Robbins is I suspect the one and the same, Councillor Jason Robbins of the City of Stirling.

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I guess Councillor Robbins is a strong supporter of the proposed Boardwalk.

That said I do find it interesting Mr Robbins you are quite happy to solicit the support of cyclists yet question where those who have chosen to oppose the Boardwalk come from ... rather hypocritical don't you think or are you only seeking support of cyclists who actually reside in the Stirling Coastal Ward?

Regards
Andrew
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby rambler1au » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:00 pm

I think that we are all political on this issue and Ill declare that I live in Stirling and I agree with the boardwalk in principle.

I think its correct when making an argument that you solicit support from your supporters while detracting from your opponents.

So Andrew In my opinion Robbins argument is valid and Robbins point is fair, just as you have a right to ask who he is and what his agenda is .

I mean you seem to oppose the boardwalk for your own agenda, based on your opinion of what you perceive the boardwalk will be ( and its not cycling related), even though I believe there will be numerous benefits to relieve congestion on that strip for cyclists.

Opponents and supporters all seem to run personal agendas here , so lets add up the votes in good time and see if this issue gets up.
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Re: Scarborough - Trigg Boardwalk

Postby Aushiker » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:21 pm

I mean you seem to oppose the boardwalk for your own agenda, based on your opinion of what you perceive the boardwalk will be ( and its not cycling related), even though I believe there will be numerous benefits to relieve congestion on that strip for cyclists.


This is what I posted early on in this thread and this is my blog posting on the subject... I don't believe I have changed my view. Any other conclusions about my views are all your own, not mine.

In all honesty, I think the idea of a boardwalk is nice but of questionable environmental value and from the perspective of improving the cycling/pedestrian interaction situation, this is being done in a relatively low interaction/risk area and hence will add little value.


Cheers
Andrew
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