Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
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Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Giantrider1997 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:14 pm
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby thearthurdog » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:11 pm
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby kb » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:36 am
It's been a couple of decades.. but isn't that -1? I guess that means a bike for people that don't ride at all?george-bob wrote:e^(i*pi)
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Marty Moose » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:42 pm
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby AL_SuperSix » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:48 pm
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby g-boaf » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:27 am
They cut off the top of the seat post! Lovely bike it is.
Tried the lesser TCRs as well, they also seemed decent.
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby trek52 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:31 pm
I really did not like how they handled I had a lot of trouble getting the
Through corners. I know a few other a graders that feel the same.
If I was paying retail I would buy a cad 10 then a giant advanced. And spend the left over cash on light stiff wheels.
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Marty Moose » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:42 pm
Do you have any stats or evidence to show this?? Considering they make many other frames and supply carbon (one of the few who do) does than mean all the bikes they make are low end carbon. Do they keep the good carbon for treks, colnago's or merkx ??? Not sure but I have heard non giant lbs sales people pushing this before. I thought the lower ones were T700 and the SL T800.trek52 wrote:Good bikes for the money but the newer advanced models have quite low end carbon
I could be wrong but physical testing on jigs would say otherwise.
MM
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby trek52 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:59 am
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Marty Moose » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:02 am
They are also a totally different frame construction, where does the lower grade carbon info come from? I was told by the manager of a pro team who uses giant who is a close friend they use t700 and t800. Again I'm not sure but I do know that they ride different I also had those models. The 2013 is more absorbent of road buzz but just as stiff I feel. I would love to see some info on the carbon grades used. My 2013 its heavier than the 2011 but only by the di2 difference give or take a few grams,7.5kg ready to go.trek52 wrote:I beleive that the early Advanced were t700 and the SL T800 this is the 09/10 models but the 11/12 models are not and use a different carbon. I had the 09/10 and a mate had the 11/12 and they are totally different bikes in feel, look and weight.
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Marty Moose » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:11 am
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/tec ... nology/55/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby trek52 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:27 am
All I can say is having ridden the 09/10 advanced 0 and the new advanced 1 that the earlier frame is stiffer and lighter.
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby trek52 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:30 am
"High-performance T-700 raw carbon fiber is used to produce custom composite material in Giant’s own composite factory. Extremely lightweight, stiff and compliant, these handcrafted frames feature the monocoque construction".
I think custom composite material is the key here, does that mean that they are not full T700 like the earlier models ?
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Marty Moose » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:40 am
I guess at the end of the day ride feel is subjective which is why its not that useful, yes the frames do feel different to me as well. Physical testing however would say otherwise. Weight wise there is hardly any difference on my scales.
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby dale79 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:55 pm
I would live to get a cx1 or m10 tho!
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby trek52 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:40 pm
Feel is subjective however 25 years of racing bikes tells me they are not the same.
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Marty Moose » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:09 pm
Could no agree more they are different in many areas, I like the newer one as do the NRS pro's I've spoken too who ride them. I was told by a reliable source i.e LBS owner they are T700, his NRS team uses the SL's so I assume his advice to be correct (finger on the pulse so to speak) they do in fact use T700, the SL uses T800 so as not to get confused.trek52 wrote:I don't know who told me the info or where I got it from but I believe that the carbon used in the earlier advanced 0 is different to what is used now. Don't know if it is true or not.
Feel is subjective however 25 years of racing bikes tells me they are not the same.
Why the difference I guess is the question.The lay up this has changed, tube shape and the whole manufacturing process is contributing to the different feel. They are a different frame after all. Whether this is good or bad comes back to a subjective feel what feels better for you is another's poison. I like the softer feel (less buzz) but there is the same stiffness I feel, ++ for me. Your 25 years is serving you well they are not the same.
Non subjective flex testing would show it to be one of the stiffest frames out there even compared to many top end frames, this data is available from German mag tour magazine and Ride these are the only two I know who do this testing, if anyone else knows another source of this type of testing I'd be really keen . I know its not the be all and end but interesting that a frame that is supposed to be lower grade carbon outperforms many other costing up to 5 or 6 times as much in a test that is repeatable.
MM
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby aditwahyu » Tue May 07, 2013 9:04 am
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby xmpt » Fri May 10, 2013 9:51 pm
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby durianrider » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:48 pm
Giant uses the best carbon in the business. They have massive buying power as they produce most of the worlds carbon bikes. Top carbon is usually reserved for air craft only. Giant bikes come with lifetime warranty. They are actually good to deal with compared to the stories you read from Trek, Cannondale, Cervelo Australia etc.
Giant is the only company to make its carbon from the strand up.
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby warthog1 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:07 pm
durianrider wrote: They are actually good to deal with compared to the stories you read from Cervelo Australia.
What stories are they?
I own 2 Cervelos and had a warranty claim on one. It was a crack in front of the seat post where a potential cause could have been over tensioning the seat post clamp. I had correctly torqued it however.
They replaced the frame no questions asked. Service was prompt and I was charged nothing. Couldn't ask for better Hence I didn't worry about warranty when I bought another
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Duck! » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:24 pm
First, the term "composite" is technically correct when referring to all structures produced from fibre-reinforced plastics. "Carbon fibre", along with glass, kevlar & other fibres in various applications are only one part of the composite process. The other major part is the resin, which cures to a solid plastic and binds the fibres together into a rigid structure. A bike made of pure carbon fibre would be unrideable, because it would not have the rigidity to even support its own weight!Marty Moose wrote:Could no agree more they are different in many areas, I like the newer one as do the NRS pro's I've spoken too who ride them. I was told by a reliable source i.e LBS owner they are T700, his NRS team uses the SL's so I assume his advice to be correct (finger on the pulse so to speak) they do in fact use T700, the SL uses T800 so as not to get confused.trek52 wrote:I don't know who told me the info or where I got it from but I believe that the carbon used in the earlier advanced 0 is different to what is used now. Don't know if it is true or not.
Feel is subjective however 25 years of racing bikes tells me they are not the same.
Why the difference I guess is the question.The lay up this has changed, tube shape and the whole manufacturing process is contributing to the different feel. They are a different frame after all. Whether this is good or bad comes back to a subjective feel what feels better for you is another's poison. I like the softer feel (less buzz) but there is the same stiffness I feel, ++ for me. Your 25 years is serving you well they are not the same.
Non subjective flex testing would show it to be one of the stiffest frames out there even compared to many top end frames, this data is available from German mag tour magazine and Ride these are the only two I know who do this testing, if anyone else knows another source of this type of testing I'd be really keen . I know its not the be all and end but interesting that a frame that is supposed to be lower grade carbon outperforms many other costing up to 5 or 6 times as much in a test that is repeatable.
MM
Now, onto specifics.... Over the years Giant have used four grades of carbon in their composite frames (for some clarity, I'll use "composite" with a lower case "c" in a generic sense to identify the material, and "Composite" with a capital "C" to identify models in the Giant range). From introduction in 2002, through to 2008, the TCR Composite series was produced from T-700 carbon. In '04 (for the '05 model year) the Advanced model was introduced, composed of a blend of T-800 and T-1000 carbon fibre. When the frames were redesigned for the 2009-11 series, the Composite name was dropped and T-700 frames adopted the Advanced name, while the top level became the Advanced SL. At the same time the Adv. SL became all T-800 carbon. During 2010, the Composite name was reintroduced, with frames made from T-600 carbon. For 2012 (and carrying through to 2014), the Composite level again fell by the wayside, and although different in structure & geometry from the preceding series, frames remain constructed from T-700 for the Advanced, and T-800 for the Advanced SL.
Giant source their raw carbon fibre from Toray, the largest carbon fibre manufacturer in the world (most other carbon in the bike world is also sourced from Toray, but there are far more grades to choose from than the few that Giant use), but all other processes, including the formulation of the resin to produce the composite laminates, are undertaken in-house.
Incidentally, the T-number of the raw carbon does not relate to any particular technical properies of the fibre, it's purely an identification code, much like, for example, Dura Ace groups being identified with the 7000 (and now 9000) series number, Ultegra 6000, 105 5000, etc; the numbers identify rank in the range, nothing more.
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Marty Moose » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:38 am
Don't understand your post duck other than the specifics of the models and the carbon used from 02 on. I was told the earlier sl variants used t700, I guess its really pulling hairs. The main point I was trying to make was Giant don't use low quality carbon as some LBS shops try to push. Far as their epoxy goes I have no idea what they use.Duck! wrote:First, the term "composite" is technically correct when referring to all structures produced from fibre-reinforced plastics. "Carbon fibre", along with glass, kevlar & other fibres in various applications are only one part of the composite process. The other major part is the resin, which cures to a solid plastic and binds the fibres together into a rigid structure. A bike made of pure carbon fibre would be unrideable, because it would not have the rigidity to even support its own weight!Marty Moose wrote:Could no agree more they are different in many areas, I like the newer one as do the NRS pro's I've spoken too who ride them. I was told by a reliable source i.e LBS owner they are T700, his NRS team uses the SL's so I assume his advice to be correct (finger on the pulse so to speak) they do in fact use T700, the SL uses T800 so as not to get confused.trek52 wrote:I don't know who told me the info or where I got it from but I believe that the carbon used in the earlier advanced 0 is different to what is used now. Don't know if it is true or not.
Feel is subjective however 25 years of racing bikes tells me they are not the same.
Why the difference I guess is the question.The lay up this has changed, tube shape and the whole manufacturing process is contributing to the different feel. They are a different frame after all. Whether this is good or bad comes back to a subjective feel what feels better for you is another's poison. I like the softer feel (less buzz) but there is the same stiffness I feel, ++ for me. Your 25 years is serving you well they are not the same.
Non subjective flex testing would show it to be one of the stiffest frames out there even compared to many top end frames, this data is available from German mag tour magazine and Ride these are the only two I know who do this testing, if anyone else knows another source of this type of testing I'd be really keen . I know its not the be all and end but interesting that a frame that is supposed to be lower grade carbon outperforms many other costing up to 5 or 6 times as much in a test that is repeatable.
MM
Now, onto specifics.... Over the years Giant have used four grades of carbon in their composite frames (for some clarity, I'll use "composite" with a lower case "c" in a generic sense to identify the material, and "Composite" with a capital "C" to identify models in the Giant range). From introduction in 2002, through to 2008, the TCR Composite series was produced from T-700 carbon. In '04 (for the '05 model year) the Advanced model was introduced, composed of a blend of T-800 and T-1000 carbon fibre. When the frames were redesigned for the 2009-11 series, the Composite name was dropped and T-700 frames adopted the Advanced name, while the top level became the Advanced SL. At the same time the Adv. SL became all T-800 carbon. During 2010, the Composite name was reintroduced, with frames made from T-600 carbon. For 2012 (and carrying through to 2014), the Composite level again fell by the wayside, and although different in structure & geometry from the preceding series, frames remain constructed from T-700 for the Advanced, and T-800 for the Advanced SL.
Giant source their raw carbon fibre from Toray, the largest carbon fibre manufacturer in the world (most other carbon in the bike world is also sourced from Toray, but there are far more grades to choose from than the few that Giant use), but all other processes, including the formulation of the resin to produce the composite laminates, are undertaken in-house.
Incidentally, the T-number of the raw carbon does not relate to any particular technical properies of the fibre, it's purely an identification code, much like, for example, Dura Ace groups being identified with the 7000 (and now 9000) series number, Ultegra 6000, 105 5000, etc; the numbers identify rank in the range, nothing more.
I've done a fair bit of carbon work using both polyurethane resins and epoxies and the resin used makes a huge difference to the products final properties. I do understand a bike made just from carbon and no binder would not work :) I think most here do;)
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Re: Rating the Giant TCR Advanced 0
Postby Sweeper59 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:58 am
Nobody looks back on their life....and remembers the nights they got plenty of sleep !!
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