Strength training?
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Strength training?
Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:51 pm
I recall about ten years back (early 20s) I managed about .7 of my bodyweight for 3x12... that was just about failure as well (attempting hypertrophy). 47kgs at 70kgs BW? Either way , this goal seems to be WAY outside my capabilities?!? Or is that the point?
What does BNA reckon?
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Crawf » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:10 pm
1.3-1.7x is very doable with some dedication and structure, it'll certainly mess with your cycling legs though, and 2x means you have some serious flesh pistons - very respectable
Half the battle with squats is your mind.
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:30 pm
So how achievable is 1.3 if you've got seriously skinny legs? That this is part of the Base period just horrifies me... funnily enough I have some decent speed on the bike, but squatting 100kgs seems somewhat insane???
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Re: Strength training?
Postby RomanTheCube » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:37 pm
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Re: Strength training?
Postby nescius » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:43 pm
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:44 pm
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Crawf » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:49 pm
Focus on technique foremost, if you have sh*te technique from the beginning and start putting on the weight you are also more likely to damage your posterior chain in some way.
Let your body adapt, before you know it you'll be getting stronger each session without even noticing.
100kg is very doable, don't discount yourself already, if you have 'skinny' legs you're not only working your legs you're building up you entire posterior chain, they all need to grow and strengthen equally.
Squat rack would be nice, I have one but prefer to squat outside of it - make the rep or fail
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Re: Strength training?
Postby RomanTheCube » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:50 pm
^ yup, pretty much.nescius wrote:Back in my rowing days I raced lightweight, so weighed in under 70kg, which was pretty light considering I am 189cm tall. I was squatting 120kg for 3 sets of 10, could power clean 100+kg and bench 100kg, I wasn't considered particularly strong so those numbers look fine. One of the other lightweights I rowed with could squat 170kg. With regular weight training you would be surprised at how strong you can get, it's hard work but very rewarding. Now I feel like I should buy a squat rack.
You can look at it 3 ways:
1) You are weak and if you start squatting regularly you will improve and gain a lot of strength fairly quickly with the famous 'newbie gains'
2) You are actually stronger than you think and some regular weight training will get you back on track
3) it is all too hard and you keep doing what you're doing
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Xplora » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:01 pm
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:54 pm
"Alls you can do is alls you can do".Xplora wrote:What does BNA reckon?
It depends on what your goal is.
When I did such work I ended up as both a slower bike rider overall and with a slower sprint too. It was the wrong training for my goals (which revolved around being a faster bike rider for my target events, which at the time were track racing and crits).
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Re: Strength training?
Postby RonK » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:57 pm
And very bad for the knees.Xplora wrote:squatting 100kgs seems somewhat insane???
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Re: Strength training?
Postby vander » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:23 pm
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Re: Strength training?
Postby boss » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:17 pm
Right, wrong, or a long story?
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Derny Driver » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:24 pm
Right.boss wrote:Newbie question- but I was under the impression that weights should be avoided, to get stronger you should ride more...
Right, wrong, or a long story?
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Re: Strength training?
Postby boss » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:26 pm
Next newbie question: why are we having this discussion?
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Re: Strength training?
Postby MarkG » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:31 pm
Anyone who says squats are bad for the knees, regardless of the weight is uneducated and needs to learn by doing and not quoting hearsay.
Fwiw..I'm 36, been body building since 18, competed at 29, knee reconstruction at 21, cycling since 2006 and train still 6 days a week. I regularly squat 140, dead lift 200 and leg press 400. No pain at all. Muscle soreness but that's par for the course.
This is not meant to come across as a dk measuring post, but the talk on here about diet and training and supplements etc is so far off the mark I had to say something.
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Re: Strength training?
Postby boss » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:34 pm
Weight training vs cycling performance. Interesting - cites peer reviewed studies rather than anecdotal evidence.
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:38 pm
It depends on what your objective is. OP did not say why they are doing the training. Could be any number of reasons related or unrelated to elements of cycling performance.boss wrote:Newbie question- but I was under the impression that weights should be avoided, to get stronger you should ride more...
Right, wrong, or a long story?
To get stronger, then weights are entirely appropriate. However it would be pretty rare for strength to be a limiter to endurance cycling performance. Sustainable aerobic power and strength are not well correlated and endurance cycling is not a strength sport. It's an aerobic sport with fairly low forces.
Strength training may provide some assistance to sprint cycling (although there is a limit here as well, as it's force at speed that matters). Being stronger does not guarantee being a faster sprinter.
If improving sustainable power output is the primary objective, there is no exercise more effective than what one can do on a bike. So to become more powerful (sustainable aerobic power to weight ratio) then yes, ride more, and ride harder.
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Xplora » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:27 am
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:07 pm
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Re: Strength training?
Postby madone » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:03 pm
Is the rate limiting step still your aerobic capacity, regardless of terrrain?
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Re: Strength training?
Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:39 pm
We are endurance athletes not league players.
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Re: Strength training?
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:22 pm
No. It's not a strength sport, we are not force limited. It's an aerobic sport.madone wrote:Would strength training, incorporating squats though, imrove your cycling performance in endurance events involving lots of climbing, such as the 3 Peaks Challenge?
What improves climbing speed is an increase in sustainable power to weight ratio. Sustainable power comes through increasing the sustainable generation and turnover rate of ATP.
Yes. That and appropriate gearing.madone wrote:Is the rate limiting step still your aerobic capacity, regardless of terrrain?
Perhaps if you had to carry your bike up a cliff, then that might be different.
The most effective training you can do for cycling performance is on the bike. But cycling performance may not be the sole goal for many.
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Re: Strength training?
Postby foo on patrol » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:11 am
Tell what action on the bike where you are taking all the stress through the knees whilst trying to keep you body moving down and up through the vertical plain?
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Re: Strength training?
Postby sb944 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:37 am
Power isn't a great word for it, it sounds to most like how much can you bench press or squat, which is about having the muscles/technique to overcome the weight on the bar for a few seconds. Power in cycling terms is about how much power can you hold over a full hour, far more a measure of fitness than muscle strength.Alex Simmons/RST wrote: What improves climbing speed is an increase in sustainable power to weight ratio. Sustainable power comes through increasing the sustainable generation and turnover rate of ATP.
I'd keep doing it xplora, but try to quantify (somehow?) whether you believe it's doing anything for you.
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