Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby rolandp » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:07 am

Looks like a traffic measuring counter device has been installed on the cycle path (the one that runs along Newcomen Rd, next to Stirling Civic Gardens Park), in Stirling.

Hopefully this means that someone is counting the number of bikes who use the Perth Bicycle Network in this area, which may result in justification to improve the conditions of the bike network in this area.

For those who are don't use this area, please see previous posts including:
Closure of Hutton St PSP
Hazard in Osborne Park shared path
Accident in Osborne Park
as examples of the condition of the PSP in this area.

If you do ride in this area, please ensure that you ride over the counter (those thin black pieces of rubber over the PSP), to ensure that your trip is counted.

Unfortunately this survey is occurring in the middle of Winter, when number of cyclists commuting to Perth drop down, so make your trip count, ride over the measuring device, and lets hope that the numbers justify improvements in the area.
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by BNA » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:36 am

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Postby moosterbounce » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:36 am

I might make a special trip and ride over it a few times :D
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Postby PathPusher » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:40 am

These have also been installed on the Burswood river track and where the track on the north eastern side of the Wyndham bridge intersects with the river trail.
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Postby rambler1au » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:56 pm

I asked the council to see if they could put a bicycle lane an cedric st between amelia st and karrinyup rd as this is a juncture between two bike paths and forces cyclists to dice with cars on a very narrow road.

well they told me that the bike paths are under review and not to hold my breath, in other words get stuffed. so I dont think the council is going to do a damn thing on newcomen st
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Postby cricetidae » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:43 pm

It always worries me when they say that they are reviewing cycle paths. In a lot of cases this is to work out the following.

How many people use them.
Cost of maintenance and delivering of service.
Can we avoid our obligation to the public.

As far as councils are concerned I am really cynical especially Stirling considering they are the ones that wanted to take bikes off the dual paths along the coast and force them to either use the road or walk their bike while on the path.

Councillors are only concerned about things when you feel threatened at election time or there is a dollar in it for them.
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Postby GSXR1 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:37 pm

moosterbounce wrote:I might make a special trip and ride over it a few times :D

Vote early, vote often.... :lol:
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Postby mich rolling » Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:06 pm

I noticed that the older style rubber tube (audio) counters on the bike paths were doubled up with the newer Metrol counters around September-November 2007. Not all of the old counter sites were so doubled and now counting seems to be done be Metrol counters chained to power poles.

Does anyone know:

how compatible are the old and new data sets?

where are the current counters located?

where is the data reported? (I had the data up to 2006 but cannot find the website again for updated data-Main Roads website seems to regard all data as a state secret that must be asked for)

What came out of the bicycle consultancy in September last year? E.g. no aditional drinking fountains have appeared.
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Postby Aushiker » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:06 pm

G'day

This has been posted to the BTWA blog:

Len Hall writes:

“Maybe like me you have wondered what those devices on poles with a solar panel at the side of the dual use paths are used for. They have been erected in many places over the last few months and they are solar powered and there are two black strips across the path nearby. The devices have been erected as permanent electronic counters that work 24/7 and they can tell the difference between cyclists and gopher drivers.”

We look forward to getting some information from MRWA, who are running the initiative, about cycling numbers and habits once the data has been collated.


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Postby rolandp » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:44 pm

I don't recall seeing one of these solar counters up North, though now that I'm aware that they exist, will try to spot one.

Speaking to the City of Stirling today who installed the counter on the dual-use path, as well on Cedric Street to monitor car trips around the cross-over here, the City indicated that they were still reviewing the data collected. Hopefully this will demonstrate that some more formal means of crossing is required at Cedric Street.

The counters were removed around a week ago from this area.
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby rolandp » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:16 am

It's back, this time on the section near the council offices. Will it make a difference this time?

5 years ago, nothing significant then.

This time, could this lead to grade separation at cedric st crossing, grade separation at Karrinyup rd, or am I setting the bar too high? Time will tell, just don't leave it another 5 years.

As a FYI, there is a a permanent bike counter just north of Karrinyup rd, been there just under 12 months. So hopefully something is happening, otherwise, why bother to count again.
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Re:

Postby roller » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:29 am

moosterbounce wrote:I might make a special trip and ride over it a few times :D


Image

:D
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby Sprocket » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:44 pm

moosterbounce wrote:I might make a special trip and ride over it a few times :D


:lol: Reminds me of when I was a kid - walking home from school my brother and I came across a traffic counter on a gravel road. We spent the next 15 minutes taking turns to jump up and down on the black strip and see how high we could get the counter. Oddly enough the road got sealed fairly soon after this. :roll:


Edit: oops - just seen I'm commenting on a post from years ago.... sorry :oops: And looks like upping the counter didn't get a result this time.
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:37 pm

Sprocket wrote:
moosterbounce wrote:I might make a special trip and ride over it a few times :D


:lol: Reminds me of when I was a kid - walking home from school my brother and I came across a traffic counter on a gravel road. We spent the next 15 minutes taking turns to jump up and down on the black strip and see how high we could get the counter. Oddly enough the road got sealed fairly soon after this. :roll:


Edit: oops - just seen I'm commenting on a post from years ago.... sorry :oops: And looks like upping the counter didn't get a result this time.


Don't worry the op booted it up again as a new counter is there
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby rolandp » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:52 pm

Worked it out, it is to justify CoS to put speed humps onto the entrance to the temporary car park, as a car failed to stop this evening. Eldavo, did you get it on video?

Yes, the original post was 5 years ago.
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby eldavo » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:54 pm

Yep, got the footage I had posted at the thread linked below. I noticed the stop sign is probably inhibiting its reflective paint.
Also usually the convention for a stop sign city slickers would be used to is a sealed surface with black bitumen and thick solid white stop line... nothing close to that at this spot has so not surprising people drive through.

Since the loose surface run-off also has eliminated the PSP surface change colour it all more easily blends into one continuation of the driver's car park exit.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=42874&start=275#p956050
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Re:

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:42 pm

mich rolling wrote:I noticed that the older style rubber tube (audio) counters on the bike paths were doubled up with the newer Metrol counters around September-November 2007. Not all of the old counter sites were so doubled and now counting seems to be done be Metrol counters chained to power poles.

Does anyone know:

...

where is the data reported? (I had the data up to 2006 but cannot find the website again for updated data-Main Roads website seems to regard all data as a state secret that must be asked for)

...


Is this what you are after? http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/activetransport/25730.asp
It's all there in a format suitable for your own number crunching. As are are pdf reports and other stuff as well. Just drill down at http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/activetransport/24022.asp for a heap of stats and analysis.

(I sometimes wonder if I am counted as none or as one. :lol: )
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby rolandp » Thu May 02, 2013 12:08 am

Potential reason for the latest counter, large signs installed today indicating the car park will be closed next week for maintenance. The same car park where I was nearly hit by a car last week who failed to stop and give way. Lets hope that the maintenance includes improvements in this area.

But there is a bigger picture to this area. State government opened up their car park on the same area of land around 12 months ago (Stirling station car park expansion). This land which both car parks is on is under the area of Stirling alliance, so once this finally gets the nod, both car parks go. So good money being spent for motorists now on temporary solutions to further encourage more people to drive.

And yet the perth bike network plan does not allocate 1cent to this area, as it will be part of Stirling alliance, so we don't get for example grade separation at cedric st now, even though we now have more cars travelling to the car parks, which makes crossing cedric even more difficult and dangerous. So no money being spent for cyclists now on permanent solutions to encourage more people to ride.

The really sad bit is, there are really good staff at Stirling, winning awards for sustainability travel smart ideas, who must also feel this frustration.

Soap box over, ride careful through the area next week, as there will be large vehicles crossing the shared path at this location.
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Re: Re:

Postby embee8 » Thu May 02, 2013 3:53 pm

(I sometimes wonder if I am counted as none or as one. :lol: )[/quote]

Afraid it's none :wink: . The counting equipment log and time-stamp all the axles. Assumptions on a bike path and on a road are that all vehicles have a minimum of 2 axles. False sensor hits, kids jumping on them after school, and the plethora of unicyclists :) , etc, are recorded as spurious hits and are not reported as vehicles.
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Re: Re:

Postby Baalzamon » Thu May 02, 2013 6:55 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
(I sometimes wonder if I am counted as none or as one. :lol: )


Stop, get off wheel the uni upto it run over it with the uni, pick up and repeat 30 times
Your now a uni pack following the correct rules of the path single file
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Re: Re:

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu May 02, 2013 11:15 pm

embee8 wrote:Afraid it's none :wink: . The counting equipment log and time-stamp all the axles. Assumptions on a bike path and on a road are that all vehicles have a minimum of 2 axles. False sensor hits, kids jumping on them after school, and the plethora of unicyclists :) , etc, are recorded as spurious hits and are not reported as vehicles.

It was only a rhetorical query but here goes anyway: These strips, as I understand them, also give the direction of flow. With a single wheel that is not possible.

I recall when I was young and silly (aas opposed to old and silly) I and a couple of mates drove our corolla over a strip, stopped and then lifted the back wheels off the ground as the driver edged forward. Silly of course because there are lots of vehicles with odd numbers of axles anyway. Still, we thought it was a productive venture.

I wonder what those people recording the Super Tuesday counts make of me. :mrgreen:
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Re: Re:

Postby embee8 » Fri May 03, 2013 4:52 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
embee8 wrote:Afraid it's none :wink: . The counting equipment log and time-stamp all the axles. Assumptions on a bike path and on a road are that all vehicles have a minimum of 2 axles. False sensor hits, kids jumping on them after school, and the plethora of unicyclists :) , etc, are recorded as spurious hits and are not reported as vehicles.

It was only a rhetorical query but here goes anyway: These strips, as I understand them, also give the direction of flow. With a single wheel that is not possible.

I recall when I was young and silly (aas opposed to old and silly) I and a couple of mates drove our corolla over a strip, stopped and then lifted the back wheels off the ground as the driver edged forward. Silly of course because there are lots of vehicles with odd numbers of axles anyway. Still, we thought it was a productive venture.

I wonder what those people recording the Super Tuesday counts make of me. :mrgreen:


Need two strips (sensors) for direction ... and at least 2 axles too :D
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby rolandp » Tue May 07, 2013 12:13 am

Image

This looks like more than just repair a couple of holes in this car-park which is currently a gravel-stone temporary car-park, which I think was originally created for the Saturday/Sunday morning guys to fly their model air-planes from. Maybe they need a more extensive run-way now.

Site includes one dismountable office, and a shipping container. We didn't have this much equipment to build the shared path on Beach Rd last week. It is a temporary car-park that will go in a couple of years once Stirling Alliance takes off. Maybe the City of Stirling know more about the Stirling Alliance then we do?
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby rolandp » Wed May 15, 2013 12:12 am

As a by-product of this work, there was a crew working on Civic Place, and finally that lump of concrete which has been there for more than 6 months has been removed. It is where they have been building that set of houses which have just finished, and you turn back onto the shared path near the council buildings.

How do I know the lump of concrete has been there that long? I reported it on 26 Nov 2012 to City of Stirling as I was tired of hitting it when making that turn back onto the shared path.
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby rolandp » Thu May 30, 2013 8:24 am

Installed yesterday at this location:
Image

Glad we have priorities correct at this location and City of Stirling are focusing on car parks and additional foot traffic as a result of those cars.

This is my biased view, but have a look at that video earlier, where the car didn't give way when exiting that car park. The traffic numbers at that time:
Pedestrians - zero
Cars - one
Cyclists - three
The mode of traffic most disadvantaged by recent developments at this location, cyclists.

Yes I appreciate that there is that Local Law (it is shown on the bottom of the sign), but the Local Law also applies to all traffic entering the car parks around this location, and they aren't sign posted.

To make it even more fun, there isn't a 20kph zone exit point, so I had to continue my journey home at 20kph until I passed another speed limit sign, or I took the time to read the Local Law.
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Re: Cycle Counter Usuage - Cycle Path, Stirling

Postby citywomble » Fri May 31, 2013 2:33 pm

Hi,

As Roland has previously reported at this location the access to the overflow car park has often resulted in lose gravel and sand being carried onto the shared path and there has also been an issue with cars failing to give way. Because cycling safety is given a high priority, as part of the car park surfacing the opportunity has been taken to improve the vehicular access to avoid debris being carried across the path which also enables clear STOP lines and marking to be installed to reinforce the existing STOP signs which are being replaced as they are faded. It is hoped that this will improve vehicle compliance at this location.

At a recent Safety and Health meeting the issue of speeding vehicles within the Civic complex had been raised by a number of staff members. As a result it was decided to bring the car parking areas in line with the City's depot and other sites with the introduction of 10kph speed limits. The shared path runs through this complex and, rather than impose a similar speed limit, it was agreed that this would be set at the recommended design speed for shared paths of 20kph. This could be justified by the fact that visibility between bike riders and crossing pedestrians is generally good. Far from preferencing cars, the measures in place are actually biased towards the needs of cyclists although pedestrians will always quite rightly have the highest priority as they are the most vulnerable group.

Cyclists are requested to slow down and abide by the speed limit shown. It is also worth reminding that, as this is a shared path, all cyclists must give way to pedestrians on or crossing the path at all times. Although forming part of the PSP 'route' this path is a standard shared path located within the Civic complex and subject to local rather than state laws and enforcement.

On a final point, as Roland has pointed out, there are no end of 20 kph exit signs. The reason for this is that they clearly apply to the shared path and, in exactly the same way with a road which terminates at another, the speed restriction ends with the path. It is, therefore, unnecessary to have an end of speed limit, or even end of shared path, sign just before the path ends.
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