Living with a velomobile

[Rhubarb]

Perhaps I should cast my net wider. There is a thread about video cameras, so a broader experience base.

Joe

I responded in the video camera thread.

[Joeblake]

I would suggest, looking at the pics that the ball goes into the socket and is secured with the knurled ring and a 'washer' or spacer of some kind. You may have a part missing!

edit; again just from looking at the pics if the threaded socket has slots cut into it and the knurled ring is tapered at the top then the act of screwing it down may secure the ball

Got my answer in the video camera thread. The trick is apply quite a bit of pressure to force the ball into the socket. Perhaps they've invented better plastics than when I was a kid.



Joe

[Bartek]

Glad you sorted it Joe,

I have had two 'milestone' events this week, I clicked over my first 1000 km's in the Mango yesterday on my way to work

and this morning I was stopped by the Police for the first time

1st cop was ok, just wanted to check what it was, cop no.2 said I was causing an obstruction and that I should be fully over to the left so vehicles can pass me in the same lane (no cycle lane) as roads are made for motor vehicles, the reason I 'took' the lane was because some drivers were getting too close. Also I was travelling too slowly (I was doing 36 km/hr in a 70 zone) and would be better off on the path.

I checked the traffic act and regulations and nothing he said is based on fact/law, just have to hope that he goes away and checks himself

[Roinik]

There are many discussions regarding this. Causing an obstruction to traffic is in the regs, however is difficult to prove due to your ability to play the safety card. A good lawyer will cite many examples of how riding in the gutter is less safe. The whole thing about the cycle path is incorrect as the regs only refer to an active cycle lane.

The good thing is that you don't have to carry a license when riding and therefore don't technically have to give your name and address because you don't have 'proof' of I'd. Either way, a loss of license doesn't preclude you from riding the mango.

[petie]

I have been following this thread with interest. One topic I haven't seen any mention of yet is security. How do people keep their velos secure whilst at work or at the shops? I keep thinking they stand out so much you can't really hope they won't be noticed....

[Joeblake]

I had one of my trikes stolen in 1995. It came back (somewhat worse for wear) in 2000. It took more than a coat of paint to disguise it.

But if I'm going somewhere that might necessitate security I either use a U-lock around the front outrigger to a roadside sign or I lock the trailer
to the back wheel, makes it mighty difficult to pick up the trike AND the trailer.

Joe

[Rhubarb]

I have been following this thread with interest. One topic I haven't seen any mention of yet is security. How do people keep their velos secure whilst at work or at the shops? I keep thinking they stand out so much you can't really hope they won't be noticed....

My mango is my daily commuter. At work I park it in the secure carpark of our building, with a cable bike lock around the frame behind the seat. Its also insured for damage and theft. I've had no issues in 9 months doing this, although I have had my mirrors adjusted a couple of times.

I don't take it to the shops though unless I can park it right outside and watch it. Not for theft but to protect against kids who attracted to it like moths to a flame. There are stories of others who have found kids sitting in their velos etc. Most people wouldn't realise that the floor cannot support your weight unless you stand in the correct spot. A stranger would likely put their foot through the bottom if they "innocently" tried to have a sit in it.

[petie]

I have been looking pretty seriously at a rotovelo so I guess the breakability isn't such an issue. However drawing attention to itself and opportunistic theft loom large! But it's still difficult thinking about the number of ways someone, or a group of onlookers, could inadvertently destroy your mode of transport. I guess the only way to cure it is to have millions of velos on the road so they blend in! Until then console ourselves with "be the change you want to see in the world"????

[Joeblake]

Why not make up a cover (either whole of shell or cockpit) from Kevlar and padlock it in place?

This was on the "New Inventors" a couple of years ago
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s2874704.htm

Joe

[Riggsbie]

I have a "Look but don't touch !" sticker in prominent spots on my Mango and always leave the Flevoroof or Race Hood on it when I park.....

You still see people squatting next to the Mango trying to take a look inside, usually looking for the steering wheel !

But at least that gives you the opportunity to have a chat and explain things etc...

I have got on of those cheapie motion alarm things from FleaBay but not actually used it in anger.......it is very loud in the Mango and has a remote just like a car alarm/remote locking blipper.

Not actually locked my Mango yet, not sure how I would without removing a wheel cover.......


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[Riggsbie]

Also, went for 4 hour ride yesterday in the wind and saw 2 recumbents.....

A shiny new looking Orange RotoVelo on the Barwon Heads/Geelong road, he followed me (I was riding my Vortex) into the wind and was expecting him to monster past me pretty soon into a stiff headwind but it didn't happen.

Then on my second lap I saw a chap on a Catrike on 13th Beach Road, big grins and "hello's"..... You always see recumbent riders with grins !


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[Aushiker]

Video on the Milan SL. It is in German but you get the idea. I would have to say that a Milan versus a Red Edition Mango decision may well need to be made later this year. Will watch Steve's progress in Canada with close attention.

Andrew

[Baalzamon]

Hoped onto sinners website and noticed they were closed for Spezi 2013, got me thinking about next year my plans to head to Europe. Thought about going to gronigen to see sinner, but now mmm Spezi 2014 got me thinking and it's at an ideal time as well. Right after Anzac day and the week after easter.

[Roinik]

I would have to say that a Milan versus a Red Edition Mango decision may well need to be made later this year.

Consider ventilation (or lack of) very carefully given Perth's summer temps. The Mango, Rotovelo and WAW have a much greater ventilation airflow.

[Baalzamon]

Given with what I'm seeing with broken bits n pieces of the structure of the Quest is definitely putting me more on the Mango path

[Rhubarb]

Hoped onto sinners website and noticed they were closed for Spezi 2013, got me thinking about next year my plans to head to Europe. Thought about going to gronigen to see sinner, but now mmm Spezi 2014 got me thinking and it's at an ideal time as well. Right after Anzac day and the week after easter.

Spezi would be great, and a great place to check out a few different velos too. It really is a difficult choice, so if you could absolutely rule out certain models because you didn't fit in them, it would make the process much easier.

[Rhubarb]

Given with what I'm seeing with broken bits n pieces of the structure of the Quest is definitely putting me more on the Mango path

Quests are far and away the market leaders so will always be over-represented in forums etc, for good and bad reasons. I doubt there is anything fundamentally wrong with the quest. The quest and mango come from the same stable too remember.

[william]

[quote="Riggsbie"]Also, went for 4 hour ride yesterday in the wind and saw 2 recumbents.....

Then on my second lap I saw a chap on a Catrike on 13th Beach Road, big grins and "hello's"..... You always see recumbent riders with grins !

Another thing I find is that recumbent riders seem to become friends by association of bike (recumbent).
I too bumped into a couple of recumbent riders between Geelong and Queenscliff when doing a 200K ride. They were going the other way but we didn't hesitate to stop and have a chat and intro's. Later on I did 2 Oppy's with these guys along with other Audax rides.

[Rhubarb]

Video on the Milan SL. It is in German but you get the idea. I would have to say that a Milan versus a Red Edition Mango decision may well need to be made later this year. Will watch Steve's progress in Canada with close attention.

Andrew

Interesting choice as they are 2 very different velomobiles there.

I did so much research before buying my mango, I nearly did my own head in. Its very hard when you can't roll up to the various dealerships and test drive like you can with cars.

My best advice is stack them all up, and start eliminating based on your most important criteria. For many that starts with can I fit in it? Aushiker and Baalzamon, I think you guys are both big-ish guys. That may rule out the Quest XS, Milan SL and Evo S for starters. Conversely, smaller guys should rule the bigger velos out. The quest xs was created because smaller riders had to sit higher to see out and this made the centre of gravity much higher and hence made them easy to roll.

Next you need to work out where you are going to ride this and what sort of riding you will be doing. This is where ground clearance, ventilation, suspension, turning circle etc come in play. For me this is where the closed wheelers were eliminated. The quest has a turning radius of 11+m, depending on tyres. The Milan Mk2 has a radius of around 12.5m and the Milan SL is around 14m. I do a lot of my riding on bike paths so agility is critical for me. The open wheelers have a much better turning circle (mango 7.3m, rotovelo 5.6m, Evo K 8.5m).

Be careful when evaluating ground clearance. The clearance under the belly is rarely the issue, I've never scraped there. Where you will scrape is under the nose as you approach ramps etc. The worst are when you are coming off a down hill bike path where it dips into a deep gutter then goes up steeply back to the middle of the road. So the length of the nose, and angle of uplift under the nose are the key things here.

If you do get a Milan Aushiker, expect to have to cut the enclosed foot well out. Freeze it at the 10 mark of that video above and you'll see what I mean. That will help with ventilation too, although ventilation is only ever an issue at slow speeds, notably when climbing. One foot hole should be ample at speed and the Milan has the advantage of being able to lift the bonnet a little when climbing.

Good luck - its not an easy decision as the most suitable velo depends on many factors. In the end, I narrowed it down to the mango or evo k. Heart said evo, head said mango. The mango really is aimed at the sort of riding I do, ie mostly commuting and 1 day rides. Its super comfy (roomy, great suspension) and very stable and safe (track 76cm, compared to 63cm in quest, 66cm evo k, 64 Milan etc). It also came with all the necessary commuting extras (lights, indicators, bell, horn, USB charger, rain hood etc) that you need for a daily commuter.
I could have DIYed all of these things onto the evo k of course but it would not have been as well integrated and functional as it is in the mango. The mango really is a lovely place to be and I'm sure I made the right decision. Every time I come close to scraping or have to back up via the foot holes (evo k has none) I know I made the right call. That doesn't stop me desperately wanting the lower weight and higher speed of the evo k at times.

And just a final thought to screw with your minds, there are at least 2 tilting velos in development right now that will be out in less than 12 months. Tilt means they can be nice and narrow and still be extremely stable around corners. Possible downside is that they may cross several lanes everytime they are hit by a wind gust. Lots of potential though. And Daniel Fenn (designer of Evo K and Evo S) just quit Beyss and went to work for Velomobiel.nl, makers of quest and strada. What will they come out with next? And when will Trisled release their carbon rotovelo with suspension? Especially if they apply some of their world record breaking aerodynamic design into it.

Many attractive offerings soon to come to the velomobile world. Good luck with your decision making

[Rhubarb]

Video on the Milan SL. It is in German but you get the idea. I would have to say that a Milan versus a Red Edition Mango decision may well need to be made later this year. Will watch Steve's progress in Canada with close attention.

Andrew

Interesting choice as they are 2 very different velomobiles there.

I did so much research before buying my mango, I nearly did my own head in. Its very hard when you can't roll up to the various dealerships and test drive like you can with cars.

My best advice is stack them all up, and start eliminating based on your most important criteria. For many that starts with can I fit in it? Aushiker and Baalzamon, I think you guys are both big-ish guys. That may rule out the Quest XS, Milan SL and Evo S for starters. Conversely, smaller guys should rule the bigger velos out. The quest xs was created because smaller riders had to sit higher to see out and this made the centre of gravity much higher and hence made them easy to roll.

Next you need to work out where you are going to ride this and what sort of riding you will be doing. This is where ground clearance, ventilation, suspension, turning circle etc come in play. For me this is where the closed wheelers were eliminated. The quest has a turning radius of 11+m, depending on tyres. The Milan Mk2 has a radius of around 12.5m and the Milan SL is around 14m. I do a lot of my riding on bike paths so agility is critical for me. The open wheelers have a much better turning circle (mango 7.3m, rotovelo 5.6m, Evo K 8.5m).

Be careful when evaluating ground clearance. The clearance under the belly is rarely the issue, I've never scraped there. Where you will scrape is under the nose as you approach ramps etc. The worst are when you are coming off a down hill bike path where it dips into a deep gutter then goes up steeply back to the middle of the road. So the length of the nose, and angle of uplift under the nose are the key things here.

If you do get a Milan Aushiker, expect to have to cut the enclosed foot well out. Freeze it at the 10 mark of that video above and you'll see what I mean. That will help with ventilation too, although ventilation is only ever an issue at slow speeds, notably when climbing. One foot hole should be ample at speed and the Milan has the advantage of being able to lift the bonnet a little when climbing.

Good luck - its not an easy decision as the most suitable velo depends on many factors. In the end, I narrowed it down to the mango or evo k. Heart said evo, head said mango. The mango really is aimed at the sort of riding I do, ie mostly commuting and 1 day rides. Its super comfy (roomy, great suspension) and very stable and safe (track 76cm, compared to 63cm in quest, 66cm evo k, 64 Milan etc). It also came with all the necessary commuting extras (lights, indicators, bell, horn, USB charger, rain hood etc) that you need for a daily commuter.
I could have DIYed all of these things onto the evo k of course but it would not have been as well integrated and functional as it is in the mango. The mango really is a lovely place to be and I'm sure I made the right decision. Every time I come close to scraping or have to back up via the foot holes (evo k has none) I know I made the right call. That doesn't stop me desperately wanting the lower weight and higher speed of the evo k at times.

And just a final thought to screw with your minds, there are at least 2 tilting velos in development right now that will be out in less than 12 months. Tilt means they can be nice and narrow and still be extremely stable around corners. Possible downside is that they may cross several lanes everytime they are hit by a wind gust. Lots of potential though. And Daniel Fenn (designer of Evo K and Evo S) just quit Beyss and went to work for Velomobiel.nl, makers of quest and strada. What will they come out with next? And when will Trisled release their carbon rotovelo with suspension? Especially if they apply some of their world record breaking aerodynamic design into it.

Many attractive offerings soon to come to the velomobile world. Good luck with your decision making

[Poiter]

Also, went for 4 hour ride yesterday in the wind and saw 2 recumbents.....

Then on my second lap I saw a chap on a Catrike on 13th Beach Road, big grins and "hello's"..... You always see recumbent riders with grins !

Another thing I find is that recumbent riders seem to become friends by association of bike (recumbent).
I too bumped into a couple of recumbent riders between Geelong and Queenscliff when doing a 200K ride. They were going the other way but we didn't hesitate to stop and have a chat and intro's. Later on I did 2 Oppy's with these guys along with other Audax rides.

But those Audax riders will stop and chat with anyone...

[Aushiker]

Thanks Rhubarb for sharing your thoughts ... Whilst I am saving up the Pesos/loosing weight for a velomobile I keep looking at options but must admit sill come back to the Mango. The Milan sparked my interest because of the way the top opens up to provide much easier access.

I must go read up on the Evo.

Andrew

[Rhubarb]

Evo K is sooooo tempting.

Peter Haan replaced his mango RE with an Evo K. Read his blog here: http://www.pjotr320.blogspot.com.au/

He loves it, but you've got to read between the lines a little too, eg both him and Lee Wakefield (Milan SL) both raved about the hardened suspension when they first got their velos, but have both since replaced the original springs with longer and softer ones, for greater clearance and a softer ride. Peter says his evo is 25-30% faster than his mango in a straight line, but slower over bumpy roads. He says its 15% faster overall on his commute with 3:1 open road to city. So for my commute this gap would be much closer, although the cheapest evo k is 24kgs v 29.5kg mango RE, so hills would be faster.

So read Peter's blog with some context. This is what he means when he says that access to the cranks etc for maintenance is no issue without footholes:
http://youtu.be/V3r5dNuvmok We all have different perspectives on things hey.

I also came across a video of a guy basically stuck inside an evo k, unable to get out. It was all in german and I can't remember where I saw it.

The mango by contrast is no trouble to get in and out of.

[Rhubarb]

ok so this is NOT the video I was referring to but this is still pretty funny.

The guy helping is Daniel Fenn, designer of the Evo K, and consistent winner of velomobile races in Europe. That is actually his semi transparent Evo K. Imagine what you do with some internal lights in that at night

[Riggsbie]

Oh my God.....

Wonder what the story is behind that escape attempt from an Evo K ?

Looks very very snug !

Hey Rhu, how noisy is your Mango ?

Mine is very noisy on the coarse chip roads I have to ride on 90% of the time, it is almost impossible to ride with the Race Hood without earplugs/earbud headphones.....I find it really fatiguing !


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