Improving hill top finishes

The foundations for successful riding

Improving hill top finishes

Postby Disciple » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:42 pm

Hi guys

My local club has some courses and finishes on a 2.5 km climb (AT) 6%. While I can keep up on this climb I really want to break my current plateau as well as build my speed on the other climbs around here.

I have a strong base including 50 km of vertical ascent this year and have been building 1-2 hill repeat sessions a week on a local 3 km climb @5.4 % trying to hold 75-80% max HR. I have an abundance of climbs from 500 m to 5 km long and grades from 3 to 12% averages within 20 minutes. I am also already fairly lean at 10% body fat and climb reasonably well ( I think).

Two questions:

1. Without a power meter what else can I try?
2. As winter is coming what indoor trainer sessions could I use?

Thanks in advance.
Image
Disciple
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Brisbane

by BNA » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:47 pm

BNA
 

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:47 pm

Forget about the power metres, you don't need them. :roll:

If you have been reading any of the other training threads on strength and power, you would have seen how many times it's been posted how! :(

I have stated that if you ride the top part of your climbs harder and keep it going over the top for say 50-60mtrs then you will improver your strength. :wink:

Ride the longer gentle inclines harder, do jump starts, do you see the reoccurring line of thought here? :) (read the threads all the time on training and you will see what to do)

Do your sprint work as well = pick out a pole or whatever and go at it as hard as you can and do these at least half a dozen times three times a week. Good luck! :wink:

You don't say what grade you ride or how long you've been riding? :|

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4036
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby Disciple » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:15 pm

Thanks for the reply Foo, I've read a lot of the posts and tend to utilise a number of these techniques already in my training. I'm esc keen to know what indoor sessions will be good as I'm moving into winter.

What I'm trying to find out on hill repeats is whether longer hills at slightly lower tempo or shorter higher intensity are likely to be better to break my current plateau, if this is even answerable?

I'm riding B grade, have been riding/racing for 15 years (across road, tri and MTB at various times). I'm 91 kg and have a PB on Mt Buffalo of 57 min from a few months ago.
Image
Disciple
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby philip » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:02 pm

Disciple wrote:I am also already fairly lean at 10% body fat and climb reasonably well ( I think)

Disciple wrote:I'm 91 kg

:shock:

91kg.. you have your answer right there
User avatar
philip
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:57 pm
Location: Lane Cove, Sydney

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:01 pm

I can't help you on the indoor trainer Disciple sorry. :(

The way I would do the hills is, start out at the bottom the same as you have just ridden into it but the then pick a steady tempo that you can maintain to within say 100mtrs of the top. Then you start to give it some stick and keep increasing your pace, right to the apex and give it all you got until you have gone that extra 50-60mtrs past it. :wink:

The idea (well for my thinking) is and was taught to me by some very good old timers, is that it is a pointless effort to attack at the bottom of the hill because anyone worth their salt on a climb will just look at you and go.....Ok hurt yourself down here and I'll pass you a bit further up and then leave you behind. :twisted: So if you can train yourself too still go at a good pace and then keep increasing your tempo towards the top but still have a little bit in reserve, to give it your all before the top and over then you will make more of a mark on things. Most will back off at the top but if you train yourself to keep going hard for that extra 50-60mtrs, then you will hurt them more and you will be able to recover after they get back on you while they are stuffed. Don't stop pedalling when they catch you neither because your muscles will start to cool and the blood flow slows. Just keep your legs moving, even if you're not placing pressure on the pedals, just keep them rotating. If you doubt this, then go hard and stop pedalling and you will feel your legs starting to cool. :wink:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4036
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby Disciple » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:15 pm

philip wrote:
Disciple wrote:I am also already fairly lean at 10% body fat and climb reasonably well ( I think)

Disciple wrote:I'm 91 kg

:shock:

91kg.. you have your answer right there


91kg and 197 cm tall, not a whole lot less to lose without becoming a monk
Image
Disciple
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby Disciple » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:17 pm

Thanks Foo,

I am def going to practice that one. I think it will hurt!
Image
Disciple
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:36 pm

Disciple wrote:Thanks Foo,

I am def going to practice that one. I think it will hurt!


Hehe no pain no gain! :twisted:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4036
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:00 pm

Disciple wrote:
philip wrote:
Disciple wrote:I am also already fairly lean at 10% body fat and climb reasonably well ( I think)

Disciple wrote:I'm 91 kg

:shock:

91kg.. you have your answer right there


91kg and 197 cm tall, not a whole lot less to lose without becoming a monk

Dilemma of the big guys mate... maybe you can lose a kilo or two, most of us always can ( and it makes a big difference ) , but if you do and improve your performance you will move up to A grade and you won't have a chance against an A grade climber. I am of similar build to you, I have to pick and chose my races to suit my build.

But to your training... work on all levels, train your hour power so you can arrive at the bottom of the climb with more left in the tank, train your VO2 level ( 5 minute'ish intervals ) so you have the level to dig deep on the climbs, don't try and match the accelerations of the lighter guys... hit the climbs on the front at a strong pace to discourage any attacks and this allows you to drift back a little bit through the bunch without getting dropped on the climb, train your 1 minute and sprint power so you can use your power to come back round the wippets at the end :P .
On the trainer in winter personally I would just be doing 20 minute sweet spot intervals with maybe one session a week doing VO2 intervals, working on a strong base with out going to deep before ramping it up in spring training... but were I am you only race cross in winter, not like in Oz where you can race 52 weeks a year!.
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14026
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby Metor » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:09 pm

Disciple wrote:
philip wrote:
Disciple wrote:I am also already fairly lean at 10% body fat and climb reasonably well ( I think)

Disciple wrote:I'm 91 kg

:shock:

91kg.. you have your answer right there


91kg and 197 cm tall, not a whole lot less to lose without becoming a monk

Are you sure?
I know a few riders (good friends of mine) who are 206cm and weight at least 5kg less... And I cannot keep up with them uphill with my 69kg. :wink:
User avatar
Metor
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:24 pm

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:15 pm

94 kgs of awesum :P
Image
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14026
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby Disciple » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:36 pm

Thanks Toolonglegs,

I think I am just going to mix it up and see if I can break through my current form.
Image
Disciple
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:38 pm

As a 65kg ish rider I love hill top finishes, hit them hard early and the bigger guys lose heart and start racing for the minor places, once I've got 20-30 seconds I just ride at a steady pace, if someone tries to come across just up the ante and they back off. Admittedly only E grade vets but I reckon most of it is in the mind, they'd rather conserve something and fight for 2nd than chase me for a win and risk blowing up.
They get their revenge of flat finishes so it all evens out.
Scott CR1
you cannot be sirrus
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:47 pm

you cannot be sirrus wrote:As a 65kg ish rider I love hill top finishes, hit them hard early and the bigger guys lose heart and start racing for the minor places, once I've got 20-30 seconds I just ride at a steady pace, if someone tries to come across just up the ante and they back off. Admittedly only E grade vets but I reckon most of it is in the mind, they'd rather conserve something and fight for 2nd than chase me for a win and risk blowing up.
They get their revenge of flat finishes so it all evens out.


See I don't hold to this theory because if you train the way I have suggested, a bigger bloke can ride hard on the hills and more than hold his own and I watched blokes and raced that could. :wink:

I'll give you this much though, they do have to be serious about their training and train the way I said and you will see results. :twisted:

I don't concur with the line of thought, that you need to be a Biafran to be a good climber. :mrgreen:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4036
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby Xplora » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:58 pm

May need to work on better tactics as ell. There is not a rider on the planet who can just ignore the fact that they just aren't built to thrive in some situations. Sadly cycling is pretty specialised. Be awesome, but accept that your club wants to encourage climbers as well as TT and sprinters ;)
Xplora
 
Posts: 4663
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:33 pm

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby you cannot be sirrus » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:38 am

foo on patrol wrote:
See I don't hold to this theory because if you train the way I have suggested, a bigger bloke can ride hard on the hills and more than hold his own and I watched blokes and raced that could. :wink:

I'll give you this much though, they do have to be serious about their training and train the way I said and you will see results. :twisted:


Foo


I think E grade vets training is pretty much a group ride with the mates when you can for some of them. The bigger guys certainly hurt me on the shorted pinches, a nice 3km climb up Willuga Hill suits me better.
Scott CR1
you cannot be sirrus
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Re: Improving hill top finishes

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:35 am

I trained with a bloke that was 40yrs and I was 20yrs and he could hurt us youngins big time. :oops:

He had been out of the racing scene for 20yrs! :shock:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km
Image
User avatar
foo on patrol
 
Posts: 4036
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:12 am
Location: Sanstone Point QLD


Return to Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Top Bikes & Gear
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Cell Bikes Cell Bikes AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist