The Cost Of Wheel Builds

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The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:00 pm

Ok people, my rear wheel has a split 1cm each side of the nipple. :( Will it be cheaper for me to buy a new set of wheels or get this one re built. The hub is WH-R 560 and still runs smooth. :?

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by BNA » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:34 pm

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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby mick243 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:34 pm

buy an appropriate rim, and swap it out for the most cost effective solution... plenty of "how to's" on line and it really isnt hard, and in your case it would be easier, lay the new rim on top of the old with the valves lined up, and move the spokes over 1 at a time, tension and true - good to go.
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby biker jk » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:39 pm

If it's a Shimano factory wheelset then it will be cheaper to buy a new wheelset. Proprietary rims will be expensive.
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:12 pm

At first glance there doesn't look to be any magic in the rim.
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/WH/EV-WH-R560-R-2480A_v1_m56577569830608669.pdf

I doubt that there is any special internal shaping to suit the spoke ends which is the most likely issue. Even if there is, they look like bladed spokes which make life a bit easier.

If it were me I'd be happy to just get a rim of the right depth and drilling and give it a try.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby biker jk » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:46 pm

ironhanglider wrote:At first glance there doesn't look to be any magic in the rim.
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/WH/EV-WH-R560-R-2480A_v1_m56577569830608669.pdf

I doubt that there is any special internal shaping to suit the spoke ends which is the most likely issue. Even if there is, they look like bladed spokes which make life a bit easier.

If it were me I'd be happy to just get a rim of the right depth and drilling and give it a try.

Cheers,

Cameron


Shimano hubs use straight pull spokes. They are very expensive. Shimano rims are also usually offset (asymmetric).
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby Nobody » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:37 pm

biker jk wrote:Shimano hubs use straight pull spokes. They are very expensive. Shimano rims are also usually offset (asymmetric).
Low spoke count ones are, like the WH-R 560. Many higher spoke count hubs (like 32 spoke) still use J spokes.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Cate ... goryID=765

foo on patrol wrote:Ok people, my rear wheel has a split 1cm each side of the nipple. :( Will it be cheaper for me to buy a new set of wheels or get this one re built. The hub is WH-R 560 and still runs smooth. :?

Foo
If you still like low spoke count wheels, then buy another one for the rear. If you'd prefer something that lasts longer, then it might be worth getting a higher spoke count wheel which usually have cheaper part replacement prices as well.
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby ironhanglider » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:51 pm

biker jk wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:At first glance there doesn't look to be any magic in the rim.
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/WH/EV-WH-R560-R-2480A_v1_m56577569830608669.pdf

I doubt that there is any special internal shaping to suit the spoke ends which is the most likely issue. Even if there is, they look like bladed spokes which make life a bit easier.

If it were me I'd be happy to just get a rim of the right depth and drilling and give it a try.

Cheers,

Cameron


Shimano hubs use straight pull spokes. They are very expensive. Shimano rims are also usually offset (asymmetric).



I agree with the spokes, however Foo hasn't mentioned a problem with these, I'd expect that he intends to re-use them. The rims looked to be a simple V shape like the R500 wheels which I used to own. This document
shows a symmetric rim and I saw somewhere that it was a 24mm depth. As long as you can find some at 20h drilling (I have a helpful contact if necessary) I stand by my previous statement, they don't look to be anything really unusual.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby Nobody » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:07 pm

ironhanglider wrote:The rims looked to be a simple V shape like the R500 wheels which I used to own. This document
shows a symmetric rim and I saw somewhere that it was a 24mm depth. As long as you can find some at 20h drilling (I have a helpful contact if necessary) I stand by my previous statement, they don't look to be anything really unusual.

Cheers,

Cameron
If you look at the diagram you linked, under spoke replacement it looks like an offset rim. Also my old 105 wheel has an offset rim as can be seen below.
Image

Edit: Grammar.
Last edited by Nobody on Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:14 pm

^^ Yep that is how my rim looks to. Drive side out of the middle and passenger side off centre.

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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby A_P » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:29 pm

I have a set of these wheels, good tough training wheel they are
Mine dont appear to be asymmetric.
New set for a bit over $200 here
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bicycle-Wheels-Shimano-Wheelset-560-/350566740966?pt=AU_Cycling_New_&hash=item519f67f3e6
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby Nobody » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:32 pm

foo on patrol wrote:^^ Yep that is how my rim looks to. Drive side out of the middle and passenger side off centre.

Foo

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/compon ... 15548.html

So as said, it looks like your only cost effective option is a whole new wheel.
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby biker jk » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:02 pm

ironhanglider wrote:
biker jk wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:At first glance there doesn't look to be any magic in the rim.
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/WH/EV-WH-R560-R-2480A_v1_m56577569830608669.pdf

I doubt that there is any special internal shaping to suit the spoke ends which is the most likely issue. Even if there is, they look like bladed spokes which make life a bit easier.

If it were me I'd be happy to just get a rim of the right depth and drilling and give it a try.

Cheers,

Cameron


Shimano hubs use straight pull spokes. They are very expensive. Shimano rims are also usually offset (asymmetric).



I agree with the spokes, however Foo hasn't mentioned a problem with these, I'd expect that he intends to re-use them. The rims looked to be a simple V shape like the R500 wheels which I used to own. This document
shows a symmetric rim and I saw somewhere that it was a 24mm depth. As long as you can find some at 20h drilling (I have a helpful contact if necessary) I stand by my previous statement, they don't look to be anything really unusual.

Cheers,

Cameron


If he keeps the spokes he needs to find a rim with the same ERD and also bear in mind the spoke lengths are based on an offset rim. Cheaper to buy a new wheelset.
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby ironhanglider » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:35 am

Nobody wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:The rims looked to be a simple V shape like the R500 wheels which I used to own. This document
shows a symmetric rim and I saw somewhere that it was a 24mm depth. As long as you can find some at 20h drilling (I have a helpful contact if necessary) I stand by my previous statement, they don't look to be anything really unusual.

Cheers,

Cameron
If you look at the diagram you linked, under spoke replacement it looks like an offset rim. Also my old 105 wheel has an offset rim as can be seen below.
Image

Edit: Grammar.


The document showed a symmetrical rim with an offset drilling, much the same as the vast majority of rims that I have come across. Unfortunately the picture doesn't show whether this is to the right or left side nor a comparison to the other side.

This is an offset rim.

I can't see the offset in your picture due to the flare but a variation in alignment of the holes by a mm or two is not going to make more than a fraction of a mm difference in spoke length. Spokes typically have a useful adjustment range of several mm.

biker jk wrote:If he keeps the spokes he needs to find a rim with the same ERD and also bear in mind the spoke lengths are based on an offset rim. Cheaper to buy a new wheelset.


There are not radical differences in the thickness of the aluminium used to make rims, nor are there radical differences in the height from the bead seat to the outside diameter of the rim. Therefore the same rim depth will give a rim of a similar ERD, (at least within 2mm. assuming both rims are a similar construction). There is greater variation in the way different people measure ERD, some simply give the inner diameter, others inner diameter + thickness of materialx2, some to the bottom of the groove in the nipple and some to the top of the groove. I have seen 5mm differences in ERD for the same rim depending on who is doing the measuring. Unless you are doing the measuring yourself it is a leap of faith to trust someone else. The overall rim height is at least consistently measured accurately. As an example the top rim on this page would go close. I've bought rims from them before and they have been willing to do special drillings (although I was buying 4 40 spoke rims and other stuff at the same time)

For Foo I suspect that he'd be building the wheel himself which would make this an option. If not then I agree that a new wheel set is almost always cheaper. Deon's offerings appear to be well liked and well supported.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:59 am

Thanks for the feed back people, will have to put some more thought into what I will do now. :)

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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby Nobody » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:01 pm

ironhanglider wrote:ImageThis is an offset rim.

I can't see the offset in your picture due to the flare but a variation in alignment of the holes by a mm or two is not going to make more than a fraction of a mm difference in spoke length. Spokes typically have a useful adjustment range of several mm.
Yes it is like the Velocity rim. Admittedly hard to see in the photo as it was supposed to be of the hub, but I just felt the profile and it is steep on one side and shallow on the other. According to Peter White Cycles an off center rim is not necessary for a Shimano hub, but still a good idea.
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/velocity.asp
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby Saturnstarzz » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:45 pm

Foo If there same as RS10's your welcome to have my old wheels. Plenty of life left them but a small ding in the rear braking surface.
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby foo on patrol » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:49 pm

Where are you hidden Saturnstarzz?

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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby Saturnstarzz » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:46 pm

Western Sub's of Melbourne, oh yeah forgot about shipping and stuff.
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Re: The Cost Of Wheel Builds

Postby foo on patrol » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:52 pm

Yeah that could be a hassle but thanks for the offer. :wink:

Foo
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