Told you so.

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Told you so.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat May 04, 2013 9:30 am

Remember my experience of needing to take my shoes off so that i could count the number of cyclists running red at the Gabba last year? Are we really doing this at every intersection that requires us to stop? How many cyclists are doing this in SE QLD in one hour during peak times? Nooo, this doesn't look bad for us at all.
Please, if it says stop, at least make some sort of effort. Please?

"This is disturbing. Please SCAers, if there are stop signs at a given intersection they are there for a very good reason!
And to the police, you wear helmet mounted cameras to record dangerous road behaviour which can be used as evidence, so please show cyclists the same courtesy when they present you with their footage. Good chaps."
http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/Queensla ... ersection/
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by BNA » Sat May 04, 2013 9:50 am

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Re: Told you so.

Postby AndrewBurns » Sat May 04, 2013 9:50 am

I wonder how many cars went through there in the same time without coming to the legally required full stop.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat May 04, 2013 10:02 am

Probably none. The QPS are revenue raising like you wouldn't believe.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby FXST01 » Sat May 04, 2013 12:59 pm

Book em all I say.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby Pax » Sat May 04, 2013 2:22 pm

Agreed...we should stop.

Sounds kinda like that Amy Gillett Campaign....just sayin :twisted:

(sorry, couldn't resist....I know it is a cheap shot & doesn't address the complexities :wink: )
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Re: Told you so.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sat May 04, 2013 3:00 pm

Pax wrote:Agreed...we should stop.

Sounds kinda like that Amy Gillett Campaign....just sayin :twisted:

(sorry, couldn't resist....I know it is a cheap shot & doesn't address the complexities :wink: )

You take that back.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby Red Rider » Sat May 04, 2013 8:14 pm

All I see is road rules designed for cars imposed on cyclists.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby jcjordan » Sat May 04, 2013 8:49 pm

Red Rider wrote:All I see is road rules designed for cars imposed on cyclists.

I see a blind cnr which has a stop sign to for people to take the time to see whats coming.

A couple of riders nearly became hood ornaments blowing through the sign
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Re: Told you so.

Postby AndrewBurns » Sat May 04, 2013 8:53 pm

jcjordan wrote:
Red Rider wrote:All I see is road rules designed for cars imposed on cyclists.

I see a blind cnr which has a stop sign to for people to take the time to see whats coming.

A couple of riders nearly became hood ornaments blowing through the sign


One that I saw and he was clearly a reckless rider in any situation. The rest of them were clearly looking both ways, seeing that there were no cars and rolling safely through at little more than walking pace. They all did it with a clear view of the police too, likely because they've done the same thing in their car a thousand times (as everyone does).
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Re: Told you so.

Postby ldrcycles » Sat May 04, 2013 8:57 pm

I feel it's worth pointing out that at last weekend's Noosa Century (now called Subaru something something) the bunch skills and general road behaviour of a lot of the riders was atrocious. HOWEVER, I didn't see ANYONE run any of the numerous red lights we encountered.


And as far as the phrase 'revenue raising' goes, it's pretty straightforward, if you don't want to pay the fine, don't break the law :roll: .
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Re: Told you so.

Postby Dan » Sat May 04, 2013 10:23 pm

Back on topic.

Interesting location.

Rolling through the stop sign allows one to control their approach to the relatively safe centre/turning strip, protected from the left by a dividing strip (kerb, keep left signage, etc.)

Stopping fully means an uphill start, which puts one in the path of traffic coming down the hill from the right, and which was not yet visible or audible when taking off from a complete stop.

Intersection is close to 20m across at that point.

Extended dividing island in the centre as a staging point would be helpful.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby human909 » Sat May 04, 2013 10:24 pm

Oh dear.....

Victorian police also targeting the Capital City Trail this week. Fining dozens of cycling ignoring the red pedestrian/cyclist crossing. Despite the fact that the parallel street 15m away had no traffic lights. :roll:

Seriously, the mindset of the police doing this is absurd. Do they really think it will change behaviour? Pinning cyclist for not stopping at STOP signs is totally underhand behaviour.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby mick243 » Sun May 05, 2013 10:33 am

I beg to differ.....

If we as cyclists wish to be viewed as equally entitled to a fair share of space on the road, we need to BE SEEN to be obeying all the laws and rules applicable to all road users.

shrugging something off as "just a law made for cars" is seen by people in cars as "yobbos flouting the law".

legally, a bicycle on the road is a "vehicle", and a car is a "vehicle", both legally entitled to their fair share of space on the road, and bound (mostly) by the same laws rules and regulations (there are some bike specific rules - I'm not aware of any "car only" ones...).

we also need to be policed in the same way as cars - if a copper sees a cyclist doing the wrong thing, they should book them, same as for cars.


if you think your cycling route has intersections where it is unsafe for you to obey traffic controls, take a different route. if you run a stoplight or sign, hang your head in shame and pay the fine quietly.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby g-boaf » Sun May 05, 2013 10:49 am

I beg to differ on this. A bike rider rolling very slowly up to the start of and beginning of an intersection and clearly and carefully looking both ways to ensure no vehicles are approaching is just as good as stopping. Especially if it is an uphill section. If there are no vehicles, you can quickly continue on your way causing minimal delay to anyone else.

If you are only doing 6-8km/h, you can stop quickly enough to avoid a collision.

Cars almost never completely stop at stop signs either - you see them do the same thing. But the Police never usually do anything about them and the general public doesn't complain about it either. The law needs to be changed to be a bit more sensible for both cars and bicycles.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun May 05, 2013 10:54 am

The whole "we do it but its ok because they do" thing is more than a little grade 5 don't you think?
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Re: Told you so.

Postby ball bearing » Sun May 05, 2013 11:00 am

g-boaf wrote: The law needs to be changed to be a bit more sensible for both cars and bicycles.

MMMMMM, I don't like the idea of cars having the legal option of running stop signs. As much as a pain it sometimes is, I believe that all road users must follow all road rules.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby jcjordan » Sun May 05, 2013 12:15 pm

mick243 wrote:I beg to differ.....

If we as cyclists wish to be viewed as equally entitled to a fair share of space on the road, we need to BE SEEN to be obeying all the laws and rules applicable to all road users.

shrugging something off as "just a law made for cars" is seen by people in cars as "yobbos flouting the law".

legally, a bicycle on the road is a "vehicle", and a car is a "vehicle", both legally entitled to their fair share of space on the road, and bound (mostly) by the same laws rules and regulations (there are some bike specific rules - I'm not aware of any "car only" ones...).

we also need to be policed in the same way as cars - if a copper sees a cyclist doing the wrong thing, they should book them, same as for cars.


if you think your cycling route has intersections where it is unsafe for you to obey traffic controls, take a different route. if you run a stoplight or sign, hang your head in shame and pay the fine quietly.

Ahh the voice of common sense

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Re: Told you so.

Postby jcjordan » Sun May 05, 2013 12:32 pm

g-boaf wrote:I beg to differ on this. A bike rider rolling very slowly up to the start of and beginning of an intersection and clearly and carefully looking both ways to ensure no vehicles are approaching is just as good as stopping. Especially if it is an uphill section. If there are no vehicles, you can quickly continue on your way causing minimal delay to anyone else.

If you are only doing 6-8km/h, you can stop quickly enough to avoid a collision.

Cars almost never completely stop at stop signs either - you see them do the same thing. But the Police never usually do anything about them and the general public doesn't complain about it either. The law needs to be changed to be a bit more sensible for both cars and bicycles.

I disagree

The rolling part encourages riders to accelerate when its not safe to do so as they are rolling and dont want to stop.

Rider a must come to a complete stop the same as a car or other vehicle. Track stand or unclip it does not matter.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby high_tea » Sun May 05, 2013 12:38 pm

human909 wrote:Oh dear.....

Victorian police also targeting the Capital City Trail this week. Fining dozens of cycling ignoring the red pedestrian/cyclist crossing. Despite the fact that the parallel street 15m away had no traffic lights. :roll:

Seriously, the mindset of the police doing this is absurd. Do they really think it will change behaviour? Pinning cyclist for not stopping at STOP signs is totally underhand behaviour.


Underhanded? It's a stop sign. The word STOP is a dead giveaway. Bicycles are a vehicle. What's the drama?
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Re: Told you so.

Postby Rhubarb » Sun May 05, 2013 1:20 pm

Does anyone know why a commercial tv station was invited along for these "busts" ? Did Q Police invite them along to get publicity around the issue, or does the tv station approach the police to arrange a "story" ?

There have been a couple of these sorts of things recently, bikes speeding down Mt Coot-tha being one other recent example. Same tv channel too. What is the arrangement here?
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Re: Told you so.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun May 05, 2013 1:24 pm

Rhubarb wrote:Does anyone know why a commercial tv station was invited along for these "busts" ? Did Q Police invite them along to get publicity around the issue, or does the tv station approach the police to arrange a "story" ?

There have been a couple of these sorts of things recently, bikes speeding down Mt Coot-tha being one other recent example. Same tv channel too. What is the arrangement here?

Does it matter? For the one negative story (to cyclists) about cyclists on 7 News Brisbane this week, there were 4 regarding driver behaviour.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun May 05, 2013 1:24 pm

I win life!
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Re: Told you so.

Postby g-boaf » Sun May 05, 2013 1:55 pm

jcjordan wrote:Track stand


Doesn't track standing do the following:

jcjordan wrote:encourages riders to accelerate when its not safe to do so


ball bearing wrote:MMMMMM, I don't like the idea of cars having the legal option of running stop signs.


Perhaps it might actually encourage cyclists to stop at stop signs and red lights. Perhaps pedestrians could be legally allowed to crash-tackle cyclists who run red-lights or stop signs? How far should we take it?

Will this alter bad driver behaviour against cyclists, in the manner that some organisations are suggesting law-compliance by bike riders will make drivers behave better towards cyclists?
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Re: Told you so.

Postby jcjordan » Sun May 05, 2013 2:32 pm

A track stand is a complete stop in my opinion and while you can accelerate quicker than a unclipped rider I dont think its a significant amount of time.

I cant do it myself but a mate who can had to argue with a member of the local constabulary that felt that you could only come to a complete stop if one foot hit the ground.
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Re: Told you so.

Postby The 2nd Womble » Sun May 05, 2013 2:51 pm

g-boaf wrote:
jcjordan wrote:Track stand


Doesn't track standing do the following:

jcjordan wrote:encourages riders to accelerate when its not safe to do so


ball bearing wrote:MMMMMM, I don't like the idea of cars having the legal option of running stop signs.


Perhaps it might actually encourage cyclists to stop at stop signs and red lights. Perhaps pedestrians could be legally allowed to crash-tackle cyclists who run red-lights or stop signs? How far should we take it?

Will this alter bad driver behaviour against cyclists, in the manner that some organisations are suggesting law-compliance by bike riders will make drivers behave better towards cyclists?

How do you know it won't help? How can we expect compliance from anyone else if we don't give a toss and blame everyone else and everything else for whatever displeases us?
The continued whining and bullshisters from a lot of cyclists comes down to the fact they were never told no as children.
If you don't like a law, work towards changing it. If you don't like the road you're riding on, work towards changing it. If you don't like the boys in blue then do the right thing. if you run through a stop sign because you're too damn stupid to see them all clustered together 100m away, booking cyclists, wearing flouro yellow safety vests, standing beside squad cars and police bikes, with a 7 News Kluger with a big arse camera on a big arse tripod pointed directly at you, then I can understand your concerns as to your ability to take appropriate action in the first place, in which case, how do you manage to get from A to B at all?
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