The average joe CANT race A grade...

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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby nickobec » Tue May 21, 2013 5:41 pm

Don't know if I want to race A grade, seeing B grade last week had:

Current Oceania U19 Womens TT Champion,
a 4 times WC in team pursuit and
Breakaway companion of Eddie in the 67 WC

be happy just trying to keep up with them, still that is a couple of years away.
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by BNA » Tue May 21, 2013 7:11 pm

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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby Le Velo » Tue May 21, 2013 7:11 pm

The winner of this years battle of the border Master C grade has recently won the world triathlon title in age group 50-54 and is now racing in the Queensland road series ....l gone from international winning title to master C and back to racing in Elite A in only a few weeks ..... Coach must be good :shock:
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby sb944 » Wed May 22, 2013 2:34 pm

There is no way on earth you'd find me training 15 hours a week and eating perfectly for 5 years just to get to A grade if I had no talent. I don't mind riding 8 hours a week, when most of it is commuting anyway, eating and drinking like a pig, and hoping A grade will still fall in my lap one day. I'm pretty sure I speak for most humans on this.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby mjd » Wed May 22, 2013 3:20 pm

Le Velo wrote:The winner of this years battle of the border Master C grade has recently won the world triathlon title in age group 50-54 and is now racing in the Queensland road series ....l gone from international winning title to master C and back to racing in Elite A in only a few weeks ..... Coach must be good :shock:


Seen him at battle, real strong rider but how he can be satisfied racing C Grade is beyond me. Would have been a good tussle in that grade without him there. Next three were separated by 11 seconds. He won 3 stages except his specialty TT'ing :roll: reckon the brakes were rubbin! IMHO its everything that's wrong with Australia's grading system. I was not in his grade but was just a observation.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby RomanTheCube » Wed May 22, 2013 4:38 pm

sb944 wrote:There is no way on earth you'd find me training 15 hours a week and eating perfectly for 5 years just to get to A grade if I had no talent. I don't mind riding 8 hours a week, when most of it is commuting anyway, eating and drinking like a pig, and hoping A grade will still fall in my lap one day. I'm pretty sure I speak for most humans on this.


pretty much!
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby Le Velo » Wed May 22, 2013 5:34 pm

mjd wrote:
Le Velo wrote:The winner of this years battle of the border Master C grade has recently won the world triathlon title in age group 50-54 and is now racing in the Queensland road series ....l gone from international winning title to master C and back to racing in Elite A in only a few weeks ..... Coach must be good :shock:


Seen him at battle, real strong rider but how he can be satisfied racing C Grade is beyond me. Would have been a good tussle in that grade without him there. Next three were separated by 11 seconds. He won 3 stages except his specialty TT'ing :roll: reckon the brakes were rubbin! IMHO its everything that's wrong with Australia's grading system. I was not in his grade but was just a observation.


Not having competed domestically he was not graded with CQ and was placed in MasC based on age and no points or track record of local events .... The famous grading system ..... let's not open that can of worms :!:
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby mjd » Wed May 22, 2013 8:44 pm

Le Velo wrote:
mjd wrote:
Le Velo wrote:The winner of this years battle of the border Master C grade has recently won the world triathlon title in age group 50-54 and is now racing in the Queensland road series ....l gone from international winning title to master C and back to racing in Elite A in only a few weeks ..... Coach must be good :shock:


Seen him at battle, real strong rider but how he can be satisfied racing C Grade is beyond me. Would have been a good tussle in that grade without him there. Next three were separated by 11 seconds. He won 3 stages except his specialty TT'ing :roll: reckon the brakes were rubbin! IMHO its everything that's wrong with Australia's grading system. I was not in his grade but was just a observation.


Not having competed domestically he was not graded with CQ and was placed in MasC based on age and no points or track record of local events .... The famous grading system ..... let's not open that can of worms :!:


OK that explains it a bit, like I said a real strong rider & would have been pretty competitive in any grade.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby Disciple » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:24 am

This is an interesting thread because it relates to my current situation.

I am racing top of B Grade in my local CC (winning last race in two man breakaway for last 30 km). The problem is A grade in my local CC is made up of almost entirely NRS racers, including recent stage winners and guys who can keep in a breakaway in the elite national champs until the last lap, as well as a national masters champion.

My point is that at my last CC if I was racing with the numbers I have at the moment would have been competitive in A grade at my last CC, in this CC I am still unable to stick with A grade, esc when climbing.

I agree whole heartedly not all A grades are equal.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:57 am

Even the NRS has wildly varying capabilities in the rider (and team) pool, and plenty of "NRS" riders would be smoked in some local A grades. I think it's quite a problem that needs fixing (at NRS level I mean, I don't mean local/club level grading, which is more a function of the available racing talent pool / rider numbers).
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:32 pm

It has been this way since I raced in the 70s Alex. :|

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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby thearthurdog » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:43 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Even the NRS has wildly varying capabilities in the rider (and team) pool, and plenty of "NRS" riders would be smoked in some local A grades. I think it's quite a problem that needs fixing (at NRS level I mean, I don't mean local/club level grading, which is more a function of the available racing talent pool / rider numbers).

I know the NRS at times has 'local' teams who come on board for their 'local' events. ^^ this may be the case for some of those teams. For the teams who follow the series around the country though, I am not sure this is quite accurate. A NRS 'reserve' who didn't make the top 6 for his own team at the NRS Battle of the Border rode Elite 1 with the non-NRS elite A riders and the top 'cut' of Elite B - he shredded us!
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby iaintas » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:01 pm

thearthurdog wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Even the NRS has wildly varying capabilities in the rider (and team) pool, and plenty of "NRS" riders would be smoked in some local A grades. I think it's quite a problem that needs fixing (at NRS level I mean, I don't mean local/club level grading, which is more a function of the available racing talent pool / rider numbers).

I know the NRS at times has 'local' teams who come on board for their 'local' events. ^^ this may be the case for some of those teams. For the teams who follow the series around the country though, I am not sure this is quite accurate. A NRS 'reserve' who didn't make the top 6 for his own team at the NRS Battle of the Border rode Elite 1 with the non-NRS elite A riders and the top 'cut' of Elite B - he shredded us!



Agree, i very much doubt most riders that follow the NRS series would get "smoked" in local A-grade races. If that was the case we would have alot bigger NRS series and bigger numbers oversease! It may well be the case that a single NRS rider coming along for a club ride might get beaten by a "team" racing in an A-grade, and i often get the felling that when they turn up to local events its more a training ride than a race.

great example is Campbell Flakemore almost lapping Cameron Wurf at a local crit last year. Is Campbell a whole lap better than Wurf? i doubt it, but wurf was in his off season and campbell was likely near his peak.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:30 pm

iaintas wrote:Agree, i very much doubt most riders that follow the NRS series would get "smoked" in local A-grade races. If that was the case we would have alot bigger NRS series and bigger numbers oversease! It may well be the case that a single NRS rider coming along for a club ride might get beaten by a "team" racing in an A-grade, and i often get the felling that when they turn up to local events its more a training ride than a race.

great example is Campbell Flakemore almost lapping Cameron Wurf at a local crit last year. Is Campbell a whole lap better than Wurf? i doubt it, but wurf was in his off season and campbell was likely near his peak.

Check results from Adelaide. Riders who are pushing just to make it on podium in masters racing are finishing top 1/3rd on GC, with a large proportion so far off the pace it's a worry.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby iaintas » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:59 pm

If that were the case wouldnt you suspect large gaps between the top 15 in NRS and the rest of the Field? If masters and "A" graders were generally a better standard than the NRS then why arent we seeing more cyclists at international level, or Did Haas and porte etc fluke getting a ride at international level.

As i said before, there is the usual NRS teams then the ones that enter locally, that i agree are probably not Pro standard. I also stick by my comment that guys trying to get professional contracts coming through the NRS are not going to flog themselves in a local Crit as they have no need. Infact i have seen one ex NRS rider get a talking to by his coach after smashing himself at a local road race to easily take the win.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:37 am

iaintas wrote:If that were the case wouldnt you suspect large gaps between the top 15 in NRS and the rest of the Field?

Yes, and this is exactly what's happening.

I think you've missed my point. I haven't said the masters/local riders are better, but that the quality of the NRS field is so highly variable. It lacks depth. Given that such local/masters riders can make top 3rd on GC in NRS stage races, then those in the bottom half have to wonder why they are there. Riders finishing an hour down after 3-5 stages of ~200-300km total of mostly flat/rolling/circuit racing? And we are not talking the odd rider here and there. I think it needs sorting. Time limits and cuts for a start.

What the top NRS riders do in local races isn't relevant (for various reasons, one of which you point out). I'm saying that the bottom half of the field in these races would struggle in local quality racing. And that's a worry.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby trek52 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:55 am

Give me Ave Joe for 6 months and he can finish and poss win club A grade.

And yes plenty of Masters can go top few at NRS......Easty anyone...
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby iaintas » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:00 pm

[/quote]Check results from Adelaide. Riders who are pushing just to make it on podium in masters racing are finishing top 1/3rd on GC, with a large proportion so far off the pace it's a worry.[/quote]

I read that as the guys finishing in the top 1/3 of NRS races struggle at masters, not the guys getting beaten by an hour of so. Anyway!

I do agree there are large gaps between the bottom semi pro/regular NRS teams and the local teams that enter some NRS races, i guess the thing you have to remember is that the NRS is a development series, it gives young guys the opportunity to race quality riders and gives them an opportunity to get noticed by NRS teams. Its not ideal but the volume of racing throughout Australia is poor and the NRS allows it. I personally don't think that a bad thing!
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:12 pm

iaintas wrote:I read that as the guys finishing in the top 1/3 of NRS races struggle at masters, not the guys getting beaten by an hour of so. Anyway!

I do agree there are large gaps between the bottom semi pro/regular NRS teams and the local teams that enter some NRS races, i guess the thing you have to remember is that the NRS is a development series, it gives young guys the opportunity to race quality riders and gives them an opportunity to get noticed by NRS teams. Its not ideal but the volume of racing throughout Australia is poor and the NRS allows it. I personally don't think that a bad thing!


yeah, can see how what I wrote might be misinterpreted.

Races with fields like that are not helping development of younger riders IMO, there are too many who simply shouldn't be there and are just mobile chicanes. It's too easy to make up a team and race NRS at the moment. Needs some standards in my view (and not just on the riders but on team management) in order to race at that level. It's the top level of domestic road racing.

Quality over quantity in my opinion.

Perhaps if we want quantity, the have an NRS B division.
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Re: The average joe CANT race A grade...

Postby iaintas » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:27 pm

Absolutely agree with a B division, or Junior division. I guess as always for cycing in australia it comes down to cost and the communities willingness to close roads! Its sad that we have such great cycling talent in Australia both on Road and Mtb yet it barely rates a mention and basically all government funding is directed towards the AIS and track cycling. I had hoped that Cadels win in the tour might change things up, but i doubt it!

Anyway topic has gotten way off track :)
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