Derailleur/shifter questions

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Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby VRE » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:40 pm

Hi all,

I'm replacing my shifter cables and adjusting both derailleurs (for tourer bike) for the 1st time (I knew I'd get around to trying it one day :P ), and have some newbie questions, so hope they don't sound too dumb :) . I've put both new cables, cable outers, and ferrules on, and it seems to be OK, and I can even use both shifter levers to move the RD and FD, although I haven't done the adjustment of these, yet. By the way, I did search these fora for answers to these questions, but didn't find anything suitable, hence this thread, so please don't be offended if I inadvertently repeated an earlier question by someone else.

  1. The shifter cable set I bought has 6 ferrules, and as far as I can see, 2 of these ferrules (plastic) are for the STI shifter ends of the cable outers, while 3 of the others (also plastic) are for where the cable outers enter the down tube barrel adjusters and where the rear cable outer for the rear shifter cable enters the barrel adjuster on the RD. Then there's a metal ferrule which I guessed is for where the rear cable outer rests on the right chain stay. So my question here is: why are 2 of the 5 plastic ferrules differently shaped? These 2 have a ridge along one side of the outside of the cylinder, and the ends of the ferrules where the cable exits had a narrow plastic tube which looked like it was designed simply to be cut off with a utility knife. Are these 2 different because of the shape of the entry hole in the STI shifters, or something? If it's any help, the shifter cable set I bought is the Shimano Road Shift Cable Set (polymer-coated cables with black cable outers).
  2. How are the barrel adjusters installed? I can't see any mounting screw/bolt for any of them.
  3. One of my barrel adjusters won't turn, so is there a way to fix this? I've tried pulling on it before turning, but it just won't budge.
  4. Right now, perhaps because I haven't adjusted the shifters yet, when I use the inner/small levers to shift either the RD or FD down, i.e. to release tension, I get some resistance, and the shifter makes a loud clicking noise. Is there any way to reduce this? It certainly wasn't this obvious before I replaced the shifter cables. Is it simply due to not having the cable tension high enough? As I mentioned, I haven't yet done the RD/FD adjustments, and haven't yet used a cable stretcher to tension either cable.

Thanks all in advance for any knowledge you can provide to cure my ignorance :D .
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by BNA » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:53 pm

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Re: Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby Duck! » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:53 pm

First time I've heard of any ferrules with a ridge along the side. Are you sure it's not just a moulding line? The ferrules with the sleeve (there should be a couple of different length sleeves) go at the rear derailleur. It smooths the run through the barrel adjuster & derailleur body into the clamp & prevents the polymer coating wearing off, although there's no harm in not having the sleeve; the coating will get a bit "fluffy" as it wears & look a bit ratty but it doesn't harm the cable. The alloy ferrule goes into the chainstay stop. The ferrules without extension tubes go into the shifters.

What type of barrel adjuters are you referring to? There are many sorts out there. Some "in line" ones fit directly into the shifters (the ones with side exit cabling) & are held in by cable tension. Others require the outer cable to be cut into shorter pieces & they fit between the two pieces. Once the cables are tensioned there will be enough surface friction from the ends of the outers to hold the bits that need to be held still & allow the thread inside to work.

Loud noise from the shifters sounds like too much tension, as the mechanism is under a lot of load and lets go forcefully when the release lever is pressed. Check the way the cables are fed into the anchor bolts on the derailleurs, as this is a very common area for newbie errors. At the rear, the washer under the bolt has a bent-over tab on one side. This tab does NOT go over the cable, instead it points upward, alongside the cable. Its purpose is to prevent the washer spinning as the bolt is tightened, which would alter the cable tension. Placed over the cable, it creates a kink point, which increases tension as the derailleur is pulled in to the lower gears, throwing the gear tuning out of whack. At the front derailleur, there is a small tab below & to the inner side of the cable anchor bolt. Pulling the cable up from the bottom bracket guide, wrap it over the tab and across the top of the bolt. Feeding the cable between the underside of the guide tab & the bolt causes the cable to pull against the shifter, which with some models can result in failure of the shifter mechanism.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
Duck!
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Re: Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby VRE » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:23 am

Thanks for the comments, Duck, much appreciated :) . I finished the cable installation, but will need to redo the front cable, as I'd clamped it in the incorrect way you mentioned. Then when trying to correct this, I made a bit of a mess of the cable and now it's frayed, so I'll have to buy another one. Oh well, live and learn :) . By the way, the barrel adjusters I mentioned are both attached to the down tube, and 1 of them won't turn. As I mentioned above, how are these mounted to the down tube, and is there any way to fix the stuck one?
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Re: Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:04 pm

This kind?
Image
Or this kind?
Image
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Re: Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby VRE » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:58 pm

Thanks for the reply :) . The barrel adjusters are definitely shaped like the one in the top pic, and 1 of them pulls out then pops back in as soon as you release it, thanks to the internal spring. The mounting point looks more like in the 2nd pic, though.
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Re: Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:06 pm

Sounds like it's broken. They're essentially the same as the one on the RD; a threaded core which screws into the mount, with a plastic grip around the head to give you a handle to turn it. It's not that uncommon for the threaded bit to break off in the mount. If it fell off when the old cable was removed, that's a definite sign it's broken, 'cos they shouldn't do that! You can usually extract the stub from the mount by tapping a small phillips head screwdriver into it firmly enough to set some grooves in, then unscrew it. Your LBS should be able to fix you up with a new adjuster core.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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Re: Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby VRE » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:25 am

Duck! wrote:Sounds like it's broken. They're essentially the same as the one on the RD; a threaded core which screws into the mount, with a plastic grip around the head to give you a handle to turn it. It's not that uncommon for the threaded bit to break off in the mount. If it fell off when the old cable was removed, that's a definite sign it's broken, 'cos they shouldn't do that! You can usually extract the stub from the mount by tapping a small phillips head screwdriver into it firmly enough to set some grooves in, then unscrew it. Your LBS should be able to fix you up with a new adjuster core.

It didn't fall off, it just stuck there and won't turn any more. I haven't yet tried using pliers to try to pull it out, though. I'll give that a go, and then use WD-40 on it to try to loosen it up.
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Re: Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby VRE » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:22 pm

Sorry, forgot to mention, Duck. I tried using pliers on the stuck barrel-adjuster, and it loosened up nicely and now works fine. As for your advice on the FD cable clamping, you were spot on. I did clamp it incorrectly, and have now rectified that. I did have to use a fine triangular file on the groove into which the cable rests, because it was very rough and was cutting wires on the cable as soon as I clamped it. But it's all good now, and has gone a week without any follow-up adjustment needed :D . Thanks for the tips, much appreciated.
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Re: Derailleur/shifter questions

Postby Duck! » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:14 pm

Glad to hear it's sorted. :)
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.
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