Another help identify thread **please**

[bychosis]

Took a punt on this one off eBay. the original posting

Picked it up today. It has no markings other than serial no on the BB and a couple of marks under the head/top tube lug. The dérailleurs appear to be early 80s, suntour arx(google says). Other than that I'm a bit new to identifying other parts. Once I pull it apart ill test the frame weight to help work out if it isn't gaspipe. The frame seems to have detailing indicative of being decent.

Some pics, appears I forgot to take a pic of the whole thing.
Head tube

Head tube lug markings

Bottom bracket

Serial no

Chrome fork and brakes with red detailing, like the headset detailing.

Brake bridge

Seat stays


Also the rear dropouts are forged with screws in the ends and the bottle cage mounts have little diamond shapes around them.

If it is a decent frame and the right size I'll keep it, if not ill keep the parts and on sell as was the plan when I bid.

[ldrcycles]

Definitely looks like a decent quality frame, that brake is rather unusual too. I'll be interested to see what more knowledgeable people come up with.

[bychosis]

Quick trip out to the garage found a bit more info:
Suntour arx front derailleur dated 1985
Suntour a-5000 rear derailleur dated 1986
SR 'custom' cranks, 170mm
Formos brake calipers and levers
Seat post is larger than the 25.8 out of a steel dunger frame, but my calipers are missing and the seat post isn't stamped so not sure what diameter. The 25.8 almost fell in.

Edit: and I popped a set of 700c wheels in and they fit without adjusting the brakes. and fixed trial seatpost size 25.4-25.8

[P!N20]

Aero mounted levers, which were very cool in the early 80's.

Any identifiers on the dropouts? Screws in the ends are pretty standard for cast dropouts.

[pentlandexile]

Are those the Arx Symetrics levers, where the front derailleur automatically trims itself when you change gear at the back?

[bychosis]

The levers say suntour symmetric. Doesn't mention arx on them.

[Kermit TF]

The brake bridge is a standout....I know Ive seen it before
Frame looks kuwahara-ish. Give it a few hours , and you should have an answer from Zi experts...
I can confirm, its not an apollo

[pentlandexile]

The levers say suntour symmetric. Doesn't mention arx on them.

Yeah, that's them. Cool piece of kit.

[HappyHumber]

The brake bridge is a standout....I know Ive seen it before

I think those diamond bridge mounts with the triangular cutouts were a standard Tange component from the period - albeit one of their nicer ones. I personally have had them on a couple of Ricardo Nouvo frames.

[bychosis]

Spent a bit of time last night on the net looking for info. So far not much help, all the bikes I could find with top mount shifters didn't show enough detail or didn't have the diamond shaped detailing. None of the catalogues I saw had the same dérailleurs or brakes either. Left me with possibility of Ricardo. Miyata and Nishiki catalogues ruled out either of them. But could be wrong

Checked the size and got a little disappointed thinking it I would be too big. Tested it by popping some wheels on and throwing a leg over. Seems to fit OK but not a lot of seatpost showing.

Now the big question is whether I fix(ie) it, or move it on. As pictured it weighed 10.6kg, 700g less than my hi-ten tubed Fixie so the frame appears to be not too heavy, but not super light.

Pic of the bike with some spare wheels on.

Rear dropout

[WyvernRH]

Checked the size and got a little disappointed thinking it I would be too big. Tested it by popping some wheels on and throwing a leg over. Seems to fit OK but not a lot of seatpost showing.

If the saddle is set for you in the picture then that is about right for the bike's period. People did not have 9" of seat post sticking out back then. A general guide I was given was if you could grasp the post with your fist under the saddle you were right. Pretty unscientific and generalist but you get the idea of the expected look.
Richard

[rustychisel]

might be an early-ish Ricardo, possibly the 'Elite', possibly Tange No 5 tubing, or Tange 900.

Rough, looks like evidence of a sheared and rewelded seat tube at the BB junction then repaint. The weld appears ropey, or is that merely the image? If it broke it'll break again. Mine did. I'll further assume the champagne colour of rear stays is original paint, and the silver a new coat...?

Can you tell us more?

[bychosis]

Don't know anything of the history of the frame, only what I can see.

The seat tube joint at the bottom bracket does look different to the other joints, but doesn't look like a weld. Can't see any difference in the paint there, but might see if i can rub it back when i clean up the frame to closer inspect. The champagne paint is on top of the silver.

While we are identifying stuff what is the thing on the lower part of the seat stay on the drive side for? An see it hiding in the rear dropout pic just below where the cable passes the seat stay

[WyvernRH]

While we are identifying stuff what is the thing on the lower part of the seat stay on the drive side for? An see it hiding in the rear dropout pic just below where the cable passes the seat stay

That's a chain hanger braze-on to hang the chain on (surprisingly ) when you remove the rear wheel for punctures and the like.
Generally only found on better class frames AFAIK?
Cheers
Richard

[bychosis]

Thanks Richard.

More internetting (mostly in the ricardo appreciation thread) points me away from ricardo based on the serial number. All the ricardo numbers I have spotted start with L-number-letter. This frame appears to have serial number T5092107. Long serial number points me away from custom frame, but happy to be proven wrong there.

The other unhelpful thing about the frame is that the groupset seems to be of low-average quality on a frame with some fancier features. Of course this could be due to lots of reasons.

Have decided that this frame will become my fixie. No frame mods though 'just in case' for later.

[Velo13]

Seems a solid "mid-range" ride from the mid 80s. The stamped BB and rear dropout to stays are the giveaway. All the other lugs look quite reasonable.

Tange #5 or 900 is a reasonable guess.

If you feel it fits, clean it up, and ride it!

[bychosis]

Pulled it apart last night/this morning. Popped the frame on the scales and got 2142g frame and 836g fork. Quick look in the bare frame weight thread shows it as not a super lightweight, but certainly not gaspipe.
Time for painting.

[bychosis]

It's been a while, but the paint has dried, the parts reassembled. I fixed it. Rides nice, but makes me want to upgrade the wheel set to something that won't hold down the QE2. A little more hindsight and I should have filed off the cable guides on the top tube as I'm not running a rear brake. The picture doesn't do the colour justice, will have to get it out in there sunshine for another pic.

[scratchman]

That's a chain hanger braze-on to hang the chain on (surprisingly ) when you remove the rear wheel for punctures and the like.
Generally only found on better class frames AFAIK?
Cheers
Richard

thanks for that, have seen those many times, always wondered what their purpose was