Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
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Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:35 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby darkhorse75 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:40 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby ldrcycles » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:46 pm
+1, i'm not aware of any Shimano hubs that have sealed cartridge bearings, i'm pretty sure they are all cup and cone.darkhorse75 wrote:I'm pretty sure the RS21's are cup and cone, the sealed bearing thing just refers to the seals that are present on the cup and cone system.
Mavic Aksiums have cartridge bearings, I've had 2 sets of Aksiums and after plenty of kms both of them are still super smooth. They are great wheels and very cheap too.
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:54 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:02 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby queequeg » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:15 pm
If the bike shop stuffed your wheel, surely they can replace the hub? I can't fathom how they managed to destroy both dust covers as well as the cone!
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby Mulger bill » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:47 pm
Misplaced the cone spanner so they used a couple of 10" bargain bin shifters.queequeg wrote:...I can't fathom how they managed to destroy both dust covers as well as the cone!
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:07 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby biker jk » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:13 pm
Shimano bearings are sealed but they use free bearings not cartridge bearings. The Shimano cup and cone system is much easier to service yourself. So if you have invested in cone spanners you might as well buy Shimano wheels.jimconte wrote:I just thought they were a sealed type bearing by the way the rear hub was laced up but im not sure my budget for a wheel set is $250 max are the sealed bearing hubs really that much faster. they must not be if there dura ace hubs are cup and cone if your information is correct on there being no shimno sealed bearing hubs.
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:00 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby queequeg » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:40 pm
Sounds like they really had no clue. I recently had my Deore XT Rear Hub start to grind a bit. I went and bought myself 1 cone spanners and a tub of grease. The park tool website had a simple step by step tutorial on servicing them. No force was necessary to remove the dust covers. They come straight off with your fingers.jimconte wrote:queequeg they destroyed the left hand dust cover( as it is not part of the cone) as they removed it. I can see the dent were they tried wedging it out while the cone was still in it where as your suppose to remove the cone first then use a tyre leaver with a bit of rag around it and wedge it out from the middle. they r not replaceable. they did not destroy my old cones just through them away and used ones that come of a 7 speed hybrid(don't have a seal ring) and this after I asked to only use genuine shimano cones and they told me yes. the dust cover they used is off a mountain bike which have a thicker cone so leaving the bearings completely exposed. when I complained I was told to shove the wheel up my a... which of course I reacted to as no one likes the threat of sexual assult. Went straight to water of course. you are probably thinking why I took it in there in the first place. the rear wheel developed a tick and I could feel a slight resistance and I do not own a chain whip or a cassette remover to do it myself( I have now got both tools orded and on the way all ready own cone spanners. I have certainly learned a lesson and also discovered through a different bike shop that the tic was coming from my free hub. I should have known better as this particular bike shop is a sports store and only sell low end mountain bikes but I do not own a car and the proper bike shop is 20km away
How come they chucked out the cones though?
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby ldrcycles » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:42 pm
You should be able to pick them up cheaper than that, I think Cell Bikes have them on special at around $150-170 every so often, and 2nd hand sets turn up regularly on ebay for $100-120.jimconte wrote:Thankyou ldr just looked at reviews for mavic askyms sound like they are just what I need and are right on my $250 budget. Sweet I love this site
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:52 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:56 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby Duck! » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:59 pm
Cartridge bearings (as used in wheels) are only designed to take radial loads, which is fine when you're just riding nice & straight & upright. Cup-&-cone hubs (technically called angular contact bearings because the cup-bearing-cone contact interface is at an angle to the rotational plane of the wheel) are better able to handle side loading induced through cornering, resulting in better wear resistance, providing they're correctly adjusted.
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:12 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby bychosis » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:17 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:25 pm
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby ldrcycles » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:20 pm
Good in theory perhaps, but I've done thousands of kms on those Aksiums with no problems. Cartridge bearings have been used since the 30s and they aren't expensive to replace if/when they do eventually wear out. I'm not against angular contact bearings, but cartridge bearings are just easier, with no real downside.Duck! wrote: Cartridge bearings (as used in wheels) are only designed to take radial loads, which is fine when you're just riding nice & straight & upright. Cup-&-cone hubs (technically called angular contact bearings because the cup-bearing-cone contact interface is at an angle to the rotational plane of the wheel) are better able to handle side loading induced through cornering, resulting in better wear resistance, providing they're correctly adjusted.
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby queequeg » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:06 pm
Only downside is that you need a set of bearing tools to remove and install them, and every hub is different.ldrcycles wrote:Good in theory perhaps, but I've done thousands of kms on those Aksiums with no problems. Cartridge bearings have been used since the 30s and they aren't expensive to replace if/when they do eventually wear out. I'm not against angular contact bearings, but cartridge bearings are just easier, with no real downside.Duck! wrote: Cartridge bearings (as used in wheels) are only designed to take radial loads, which is fine when you're just riding nice & straight & upright. Cup-&-cone hubs (technically called angular contact bearings because the cup-bearing-cone contact interface is at an angle to the rotational plane of the wheel) are better able to handle side loading induced through cornering, resulting in better wear resistance, providing they're correctly adjusted.
I had one bearing in my rear freehub destroy itself and it cost me $30 for a new bearing and $20 for the lbs to replace it. That was 1/3 the cost of the whole hub. When I lost another bearing 2 months after that one, I replaced the entire hub for $50 (Shimano Deore XT). All I had to do to service those was unscrew the cup and cone, clean the bearings, apply grease and put it back together.
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby ldrcycles » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:29 pm
And as the OP's experience shows, there are differences between cup and cone hubs too.
Bearing in mind, my race bike has Shimano RS80 wheels that have done over 4,000kms now without needing any adjustment, so there's nothing wrong with them, it's just that cartridge hubs are not the devil .
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby queequeg » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:37 pm
yes, you need a set of cone spanners, which will work on any cones. Trouble with bearing kits is that a kit fir one brand of hub won't work on another. To get a universal bearing kit is rather expensive.ldrcycles wrote:You need specific tools to service cup and cone hubs too .
And as the OP's experience shows, there are differences between cup and cone hubs too.
Bearing in mind, my race bike has Shimano RS80 wheels that have done over 4,000kms now without needing any adjustment, so there's nothing wrong with them, it's just that cartridge hubs are not the devil .
I have some brand new Hope Pro 2 EVO hubs waiting for a wheel build, but I need to swap the alloy freehub for the steel one. I need the bearing tools and freehub seal tool to do the job without damaging anything, so I haven't done it yet (lack of time is also a major issue). The Deore XT hub was just an interim measure, but it has so far held up for about 10,000km.
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby eeksll » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:31 am
If the cone gets pitted, you may as well get a new wheel because its not worth while paying for just the cone.
I have had 3 cup and cone hubs,
One that came with my giant crx4 (presumably cheap)
Shimano R500 ( reasonably cheap)
my dynamo hub, a Deore XT DH-T785 - TN 317 Hub Dynamo
All have developed pitted cups and cones, except the cheap rear wheel, which I haven't looked at ... and this is before I played with them.
having said that, i couldnt ever really notice it (while riding)
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby Duck! » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:40 am
Given that cones only cost a few dollars, you make an invalid point.eeksll wrote: If the cone gets pitted, you may as well get a new wheel because its not worth while paying for just the cone.
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Re: Shimano cup&cone hub or sealed bearing hub
Postby jimconte » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:04 am
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