But it's not macho to drop to the inner chainring. Real men ride the big ring.singlespeedscott wrote:Once you go beyond your 53x21 you should be dropping to the inner chainring.
Gearing Questions
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby RonK » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:31 pm
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:46 pm
Yep. You hear it all the time. "I rode that climb on the dog ring", blah, blah,blah. To bad they were using the 26-28 pie dish at the same time. They could have done it just as easily and saved their drive train using the 39x19-21.RonK wrote:But it's not macho to drop to the inner chainring. Real men ride the big ring.singlespeedscott wrote:Once you go beyond your 53x21 you should be dropping to the inner chainring.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby hannos » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:49 pm
I ride a compact and usually a 12-28.
Mind you, my ride starts with an average gradient of 12.5%... That's not overly fun when you aren't warmed up...
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:30 pm
Yes. Yes I do. Thx.singlespeedscott wrote: You do know that a 39x32 is the same as a 34x28 and a 39x28 is just shy of a 34x25.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:38 am
Depending on the grade and length of the climb they ride compact also.
Small cassettes are very old school. They used to ride big climbs in a 42/23 cause that is all they had. Spinning up in a lower gear is quicker and saves your legs.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby il padrone » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:31 am
There is a balance to it. It is quite possible to gear too low and unwittingly go slower and wear yourself out through spinning too much (speaking as a 'spinner').
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:57 am
We don't have much in the way of climbs that force the best climber to get out the compact, though. The French Alps will have guys doing the compact thing, sure. I'm certain that they are doing whatever they can to protect their legs.warthog1 wrote:The best climbers in the world spin up the hills.
Depending on the grade and length of the climb they ride compact also.
But we aren't professional riders putting out enormous watts per kilo trying to protect ourselves for the TT tomorrow for the GC. Those guys are spinning hard gears, with power meters, to gauge their performance. It's just not the same. As I said... 12-23 + compact should be plenty unless you're taking on serious hills over serious distances (3 peaks, Fitz Challenge, Jenolan return). I will not be using a 23 for Jenolan. But I won't use a 28 for my regular riding either.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby rdp_au » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:43 am
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:51 pm
The simple fact of the matter is that your lowest gear options are seriously low these days, and if you've started on 34/28 then you'll have a very different experience to the grizzly bears who grew up with a low gear at the top of the granny ring and have had to retreat to the 28 cassette.
Funnily enough, I wonder why the old race cluster was 13-18? Perhaps the value of close ratios shouldn't be understated, even at the expense of climbing power?
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby zero » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:48 pm
I have extremely close ratios, as I use a 12-21, and I am forever double shifting it. Its only around the favoured gear that close ratios are useful imo.Xplora wrote:
Funnily enough, I wonder why the old race cluster was 13-18? Perhaps the value of close ratios shouldn't be understated, even at the expense of climbing power?
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:01 pm
The faster riders are all on larger cassettes >25 teeth
NRS riders and past Aussie champs. They are on 27s.
I took a look at what they are using and went to a 28.
Strava says its faster for me also.
Ride a small cassette if you want but over longer climbs it will most likely be slower.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby warthog1 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:06 pm
That's why a sram 28-11 works for me. The bottom 5 are only 1 tooth diff and that is the only place they need to be.zero wrote:
I have extremely close ratios, as I use a 12-21, and I am forever double shifting it. Its only around the favoured gear that close ratios are useful imo.
I started on a 6 speed close ratio years ago also.
With the increase in gears available on 10 speed there is no need for them all to be 1 tooth apart.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby andione1983 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:43 pm
ycerb wrote:As I mentioned in gear spacing - the OP is a new rider. If their cadence isn't constant or specific over a specific range of speeds, it's probably not going to be the end of the world!Derny Driver wrote:I still like my 16 cog.
Riding at speeds between 25 and 30kph you need a 16.
39x16 = 24.58 at 80rpm, 27.65 at 90 rpm and 30.72 at 100 rpm.
I hate 2 and 3 tooth jumps.
Each to their own, everyone is different.
Also, 34x14 = 24.4 at 80rpm, 27.5 at 90rpm and 30.6at 100rpm. Basically the same gear as your 39x16, but using the compact + 11-28 I recommended.
+1 I'm pretty new... My speed fluctuates just after a good generally full range gear set size.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby andione1983 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:43 pm
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby LM324 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:49 pm
It would also depend on where you ride. For me it has been more about riding longer distances as opposed to actively seeking out hills and climbing. I would expect that this would be normal for people new to cycling. Sydney is also pretty flat and where there are hills it is just generally a short pinch, not a long climb. I don't know what is like in Melbourne though but I think that a compact with a 25 low sprocket would be adequate.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby rdp_au » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:57 pm
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby LM324 » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:05 pm
Yeah but those climbs are quite far away from Sydney, Akuna bay, west head etc. are in the national park about 30-40km away from Sydney, Galston gorge is 35km, Helensburgh is 50-60km away. Unless you live far away from the city, these places aren't usually places that you will just happen to ride through. The distance to get to the climb and back that would be quite a longer distance than what an average new cyclist would ride. There really aren't many long climbs in metropolitan Sydney.rdp_au wrote:That depends on where you live in Sydney! My 25km commute has a couple of 2km and one 4km climb. Agreed the really steep bits aren't particularly long, but there's certainly enough to raise the heart rate.... There's also the Gorges, Akuna Bay, and if you're really keen, The Wall at Helensburgh. Plus lots of hills on the Northern Beaches, as well as the aptly named Hills District.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby Xplora » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:32 pm
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby am50em » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:06 pm
I live in metropolitan Sydney and the Gorges are only a few kilometers awayPhilipthelam wrote: Yeah but those climbs are quite far away from Sydney, Akuna bay, west head etc. are in the national park about 30-40km away from Sydney, Galston gorge is 35km, Helensburgh is 50-60km away. Unless you live far away from the city, these places aren't usually places that you will just happen to ride through. The distance to get to the climb and back that would be quite a longer distance than what an average new cyclist would ride. There really aren't many long climbs in metropolitan Sydney.
Metropolitan (from wikipedia):
or http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/lear ... tan-sydney" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;A metropolitan area, sometimes referred to as a metro area or metro, is a region consisting of a densely populated urban core and its less-populated surrounding territories, sharing industry, infrastructure, and housing. A metropolitan area usually comprises multiple jurisdictions and municipalities: neighborhoods, townships, cities, exurbs, counties, and even states
Hmmm - nitpicking is there anything betterMetropolitan Sydney is classified as Greater Sydney - Capital City Statistical Area by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). The area extends from Wyong and Gosford in the north to the Royal National Park in the south and follows the coastline in between. Towards the west, the region includes the Blue Mountains, Wollondilly and Hawkesbury. The area covers 12,367.7 square kilometres and is made up of 38 Local Government Areas (LGA) within the Sydney region and five LGAs in the Sydney Surrounds (Wyong, Gosford, Blue Mountains, Wollondilly and Hawkesbury).
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby queequeg » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:31 pm
If you live in the North of Sydney, most of those are local rides. Last time I checked, Sydney still included all those locationsPhilipthelam wrote:Yeah but those climbs are quite far away from Sydney, Akuna bay, west head etc. are in the national park about 30-40km away from Sydney, Galston gorge is 35km, Helensburgh is 50-60km away. Unless you live far away from the city, these places aren't usually places that you will just happen to ride through. The distance to get to the climb and back that would be quite a longer distance than what an average new cyclist would ride. There really aren't many long climbs in metropolitan Sydney.rdp_au wrote:That depends on where you live in Sydney! My 25km commute has a couple of 2km and one 4km climb. Agreed the really steep bits aren't particularly long, but there's certainly enough to raise the heart rate.... There's also the Gorges, Akuna Bay, and if you're really keen, The Wall at Helensburgh. Plus lots of hills on the Northern Beaches, as well as the aptly named Hills District.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby LM324 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:31 pm
My point was that one does not need a really low gear for general riding in sydney unless you actively seek out hills and for a person new to cycling they probably won't be able to get up big hills whatever low gearing they have.
Sorry if I offended you with my ignorance. I know someone that lives in dural, it takes quite a while (a long time!) to get there and I would say is very different to my idea of what living in "sydney" is. You have to turn on high beam on the roads there and the houses are massive, he lives in a three storey house. He has a swimming pool and a tennis court in his back yard, the land is probably several acres/hectares... I don't know. Compared to others, his house/land is not that big. Hence the reason for my uninformed opinions.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby am50em » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:51 pm
We are just quibbling about the use of the term "metropolitan" which is not the right term for what you were trying to say.Philipthelam wrote:Fair enough, but why does it matter?
My point was that one does not need a really low gear for general riding in sydney unless you actively seek out hills and for a person new to cycling they probably won't be able to get up big hills whatever low gearing they have.
Sorry if I offended you with my ignorance. I know someone that lives in dural, it takes quite a while (a long time!) to get there and I would say is very different to my idea of what living in "sydney" is. You have to turn on high beam on the roads there and the houses are massive, he lives in a three storey house. He has a swimming pool and a tennis court in his back yard, the land is probably several acres/hectares... I don't know. Compared to others, his house/land is not that big. Hence the reason for my uninformed opinions.
I would say someone just starting can get up big hills if they have a low enough gearing.
I have ridden from Hornsby to Botany Bay several times - it is relatively easy to get across Sydney by bike and you can always catch a train with your bike if you want to go further (e.g. Blue Mountain or Mount Annan which I have also done)
cheers!
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby Duck! » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:41 pm
That's a pretty sweeping generalisation there! "New to cycling" does not automatically equate to "getting off the couch for the first time in a decade", which at an extreme interpretation is what you're saying. Many new cyclists come from other active backgrounds and can find a tight cassette or *gasp* even a traditional crank perfectly suitable.Philipthelam wrote: ....for a person new to cycling they probably won't be able to get up big hills whatever low gearing they have.
There is a lot more to the right gearing for any particular rider than how long they've been riding for. Overall physiology plays a big part. Some riders naturally work better at higher cadences, others at a lower cadence; I fall into the latter - I've been riding for 20 years, so I know what my natural rhythm is. My natural cadence is about 84 RPM, which is at the lower end of the generally-considered "acceptable" range.
Underlying fitness as well as expected terrain need to be considered when recommending a gear set. It's not particularly appropriate to put a big powerful guy on a compact with a wall-climber if there's not a hill within cooee just 'cos he's a newbie on a bike. Conversely, it's just as inappropriate to put a touring rider on a 54-42 TT crank & corncob cassette if they're hitting mountains for weeks on end just 'cos they've been riding forever.
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Re: Gearing Questions
Postby Xplora » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:07 am
I maintain my position. It was 12kms of climbing and Strava reckons you're going through multiple Cat 2 areas in the process; you really need a climb that goes for 10-15 minutes to require such a low gear. Maybe a good indication is how many times you stop for a rest? 1 rest, end sprocket 2 teeth bigger. 2 rests, 4 teeth. I'm not sure how I would have gone with Bowen if I had the 28; the climb is much sharper.
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