Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

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PiratePete
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby PiratePete » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:02 pm

Today's test ride was 114km over various quality road surfaces (but all sealed), all of which are well known and familiar with recent history. Tyre pressures were set the same as I ran the previous tyres (Schwalbe Supreme - tubed version, same size).

Rolling resistance: at the 46km mark I left a regular training route. Prior to turning off I checked my stats with Cyclemeter where I have that route set up. Today I PR'ed that route (done 14 times this year), not by a small margin but by 3m56s, and nearly 9 minutes faster than the median. For the record I had a slight head wind this morning, and it was dark so I wasn't riding by instrumentation, just feel.

Ride comfort: ride was firm, but it felt more compliant. The handlebar was less buzzy than normal and my mudguards which like to complain over bumps were noticeably quiet. The difference in the ride was most noticeable on rough chip seal surfaces.

Handling: Who knows, the tyres are new and round, of course they will corner better than my old squared off ones.

I feel that I could drop the pressure a little however I'm already running the front below the tyre's stated minimum to keep them the same as the old ones.

And just for the fun of it (or because I stuffed up), when I arrived home I stripped the rear tyre from the rim and refitted it with the rotation arrow pointing the correct way... Oops. I deflated and removed one bead, looked at the goop and as there were a few fragments of rubber floating around decided to scrap it. After getting some goop on my fingers I had quite a bit of difficulty breaking the other bead free (slippery stuff). Once free, I wiped out rim, reversed the tyre and fitted without leavers, soaped and inflated without issue (compressor), no leaks. I added 60ml of fresh goop (without spilling a drop this time) through the valve.

I have added a few paper napkins to my saddle bag for roadside repairs just in case. And whilst pedaling along today I did think of one negative. I normally carry one spare tube and a puncture repair kit, theory being if I can save the tube by patching the holy tube then I can suffer more than one failure and keep going. If the goop doesn't seal the puncture and I need to use my one spare tube, what happens if I have a second failure?? If I can get to a servo (air compressor, yes I carry a schrader adapter), could I clean the tyre up well enough to get a patch to stick? If heading to the Boonies should I now be carrying two spare tubes or this this being paranoid?

All up if these tyres hold pressure OK then they're a keeper.
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Bakks
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Bakks » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:16 pm

Can anyone recommend a set of tyres (comparable to say the Continental GP4000's) for racing and training? The Schwalbe Pro One seem to be the fastest, but mixed reports around durability. I would like something with a good compromise for speed and durability.

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cancan64
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby cancan64 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:43 am

After numerous punctures I decided to go back to Tubeless on the good bike. I managed to buy a pair of Swalbe one's from UK and got the pair cheaper delivered than buying 1 in Auckland (when I finally found a store that stocked any)... I liked to run them for a week with a tube in to help set the bead but ended up getting a double puncture. Holes were small so added goo, inflated the tyre and spun the wheel until holes were sealed.. and all was good until my next ride and punctured... goo worked for a while but I had to put a tube in to limp home. I put the tyre onto the front and added a tube and put the other new tyre on the rear, filled with goo and pumped it up. Next morning went for a ride in the rain and punctured again ( was with 2 other riders, 1 double punctured and the other single puncture) and the goo sealed but tyre slowly went down so in went a tube. .. so much for tubeless... both tyres survived 1 ride each basically.
I think the last 2 punctures the goo might not have sealed as the roads were pretty wet so will try them again without tubes once I grab some more c02 canisters from Brisbane house.
I use the canisters to get the tyres up and then add the goo (using a medicine syringe).
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Bakks » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:57 am

That's not a glowing review!

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Thoglette
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Thoglette » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:09 pm

Bakks wrote:Can anyone recommend a set of tyres (comparable to say the Continental GP4000's) for racing and training? .... I would like something with a good compromise for speed and durability.

Some of the Compass tyre range is now officially "tubeless compatible" and has 3mm of tread for longer lifetime. They are basically an "open tubular" available with two sidewall weights. Two retailers in .au (Syd & Melb). Haven't had a chance to use them myself but they tick a lot of boxes.
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Chef
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Chef » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:09 pm

cancan64 wrote:.. and all was good until my next ride and punctured... goo worked for a while but I had to put a tube in to limp home. I put the tyre onto the front and added a tube and put the other new tyre on the rear, filled with goo and pumped it up. Next morning went for a ride in the rain and punctured again



I have had good mileage with Schwalbe one tyres (2-3,000km's for a heavy rider on performance tyre seems good to me), but recently switched to the 'new and improved' pro one's and have been very disappointed - numerous punctures over a short time (most sealing with goo, but some needing tubes to get home). I have just bought some hutchinson fusion 5 all season, and hope these will be a little more resistant - will post a review here once I have put some km's on them.

Also bought a dynaplug tubeless repair kit; not used yet, but will post impressions here once it gets used

Cheers
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MichaelB
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby MichaelB » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:51 pm

I was an advocate of the tubeless way a few years ago, but gradually got dissolusioned (sp ? - not enough coffee !!!) when the mixture kept forming boogers and being a real pain.

Tried the DIY formula's with limited success, and have ended up back at tubes - the price and longevity of the Hutchinson's were an issue, and am keen to get back onto the bandwagon gain, but what is the booger status of the current formula's ?

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Chef
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Chef » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:06 pm

MichaelB wrote:I was an advocate of the tubeless way a few years ago, but gradually got dissolusioned (sp ? - not enough coffee !!!) when the mixture kept forming boogers and being a real pain.

Tried the DIY formula's with limited success, and have ended up back at tubes - the price and longevity of the Hutchinson's were an issue, and am keen to get back onto the bandwagon gain, but what is the booger status of the current formula's ?



Results are varied - I have tried Stan's which lasts for a couple of months then splits (the tyre wall gets a good coating of latex and leaves behind a thin water liquid). Doc Blue didn't seal well (and didn't last well when it did, leaking again once the tyre was pumped to full pressure).
Currently running Stan's Race which you can't even use an injector for because it sets so quickly! as below, this is another new addition and I will post up an opinion once its had some use - so far, so good!
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Bakks » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:35 pm

Great - I was looking at the Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance and also wanted to give the Dynaplug a try. I'll be interested in your thoughts. I've got a bit of life left on my standard Giant (Gavia SLR) tyres so no need to rush to a decision yet.

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cancan64
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby cancan64 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:57 pm

I punctured twice yesterday again....going to work and then coming home... 3 week old tyre, maybe 6 rides, 6 punctures less than 300 km ... dont think I will be buying the new Schwalbes again
“Some say he isn’t machine washable, and all his potted plants are called ‘Steve’.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Crawf » Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:05 pm

Been running various tubeless road tyres for the last 5years on all my bikes, for the last two years, or since they were released it has been solely on Schwalbes, commuting, training, racing - not one puncture in two years. Prior to that was always on Hutchinson and in those 3 years I had two slashes which required a tube put in, so thats 2 punctures in 5 years, not bad going I think and I do a reasonable amount of kms.
I have found two downsides to Schwalbes current tubeless range, I roughly only get around 3000km per tyre.
The the other is re inflation of a used tyre, for example I will rotate the rear to the front with around 30% wear on it, but re inflating is a nightmare, they seem to lose their form/structure and the beads just become harder to push out.

I scratch my head at people who are forever getting punctures, some people just don't pay attention, or hug the gutter riding through debris, afraid of taking up lane space.

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cancan64
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby cancan64 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:14 pm

Crawf wrote:I scratch my head at people who are forever getting punctures, some people just don't pay attention, or hug the gutter riding through debris, afraid of taking up lane space.


I am scratching my head as I am now forever getting punctures....but I am jumping between 2 bikes, and only getting punctures on 1 bike and its not my mostly used bike.... group ride today and there were 2 punctures, group ride Wednesday and more punctures, 3 of us riding Sunday, all 3 punctured and 1 double. Prior to changing to the new Schwalbe ones I had the old Schwalbe ones, didnt puncture just run out of rubber.... All my other punctures have been racing cyclocross and I was running low pressure as the conditions have been so muddy here, pinching on rocks or trying to cycle back to hotels and gone back to tubeless and no issues last few races .... has been a lot of rain and they reckon that brings the crap to the surface, a lot of glass around, Auckland drivers are amongst the worse that I have seen in a western country and a lot of accidents and I am confident to take up a lane or ride away from the kerb...it does result in being clipped by mirrors and so many near misses and yet I have easily had a puncture in all but 1 ride since changing tyres....
“Some say he isn’t machine washable, and all his potted plants are called ‘Steve’.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby PiratePete » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:00 pm

cancan64 wrote:I am scratching my head as I am now forever getting punctures....


Maybe the gods are suggesting you return to Brissie...
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tomee
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby tomee » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:46 pm

curious, but has anyone run Pro One's on a wheel that has no rim bead?

i have a set of wheels with no rim bead and i have emailed the manufacturer to see if anyone had run them tubeless. Their reply was yes it should be fine.

im a bit skeptical on this

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby awinner » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:44 pm

Crawf wrote:The the other is re inflation of a used tyre, for example I will rotate the rear to the front with around 30% wear on it, but re inflating is a nightmare, they seem to lose their form/structure and the beads just become harder to push out.


So how do you inflate the tyre? I decided to top up sealant, the tyre unseated and i have tried everything to get the tyre to re-inflate with not luck at all. Thoroughly cleaned the bead and rim, have tried using co2, giant control tank and a ozito inflator.

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby AndyRevill » Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:01 pm

awinner wrote:
Crawf wrote:The the other is re inflation of a used tyre, for example I will rotate the rear to the front with around 30% wear on it, but re inflating is a nightmare, they seem to lose their form/structure and the beads just become harder to push out.


So how do you inflate the tyre? I decided to top up sealant, the tyre unseated and i have tried everything to get the tyre to re-inflate with not luck at all. Thoroughly cleaned the bead and rim, have tried using co2, giant control tank and a ozito inflator.


Unfortunately some tyre/rim combinations are better than others but I can usually re-seat mine with my floor pump but in the past have resorted to CO2 and/or my home compressor, both of which were successful options. What tyres and rims do you have? One trick I use with my current pairing (Pro One and HED Belgiums) is to deflate slowly and have the wheel off the ground. That way the bead seems to stay mostly seated but this combination isn't as good at staying seated as my first set which were Bontrager rims and tyres.

Cheers, Andy
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Thoglette
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Thoglette » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:04 pm

tomee wrote:i have a set of wheels with no rim bead

rims sans crochet?

I haven't seen rims (new) like that for so long that I can't find a picture of one onthe interweebbbything
Here's sheldon's picture of a rim with a hook or bead
Image

SheldonBrown wrote:Hook-Edge Rim
A rim with a ridge on the inner edge to help retain the bead of a clincher tire, as shown in the cross section at the right. Some older rims were straight-sided, and will not hold a tire as securely as a hook-edge rim (that is, the tire cannot be inflated to as high a pressure.) Virtually all good-quality rims in current production are of the hook-edge type.


Wow, found the new ones here on bike radar
Image

All I can say is they seem like a mindnumblingly stupid idea at 110psi where hooked tubeless tyres seem to have problems staying on.

Apparently they save manufacturing costs. So clearly they are going to be Next Year's Must Have Item
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby awinner » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:35 pm

AndyRevill wrote:Unfortunately some tyre/rim combinations are better than others but I can usually re-seat mine with my floor pump but in the past have resorted to CO2 and/or my home compressor, both of which were successful options. What tyres and rims do you have? One trick I use with my current pairing (Pro One and HED Belgiums) is to deflate slowly and have the wheel off the ground. That way the bead seems to stay mostly seated but this combination isn't as good at staying seated as my first set which were Bontrager rims and tyres.

Cheers, Andy


Bontrager TLR and scwhalbe pro one is what i have, spoke to the guys at the sydney giant store, they reckon sometimes you just cant get a tyre to seat. Getting new wheels in a few weeks will try Hutchinsons on them, going to run a tube in the miscreant tyre.

Wonder if anyone has tried to top up fluid with a hypodermic syringe?

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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby boyracer » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:36 pm

^^^Wonder if anyone has tried to top up fluid with a hypodermic syringe?

Yep. Go to chemist or vet /Dr and grab a box of 10 ml syringes. Fit nicely in a valve stem, sans core. With a bit of vinyl tubing you can even use them to top up/fill a tube without removable core.
I use them to put a bit (15ml) in my tubes. works a treat on the local glass strewn bike paths/lanes.

I had a brand new ( 200 km) panaracer 38 mm gravel king TL go dead flat on the trail yesterday on my CX commuter. Stopped rotated a bit and then prayed whilst using my mini pump to reinstall. It got me home and still up today.

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