M7 Safety Alert Thread

WestlinkM7
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby WestlinkM7 » Tue May 29, 2018 4:18 pm

Jmuzz wrote:I've signed up twice (and again now they are promoting the link) but have never had an email from it, not even a confirmation/welcome which these mailbots usually have.
I'm not convinced it works.

Good to see they didn't lock the gate this week for the puddle. There is still 1m of dry section and they have left it open, much more sensible.


Hi Jmuzz

The M7 shared path email alerts are sent when the section of path at Prestons is closed due to flooding, and then when the gates are reopened. We also send updates on planned work that is happening on the shared path and that may impact our community (not part of normal maintenance work), and invites to the annual share the path event. I'm happy to check that your email subscription is working. Please feel free to email with your email address and I can check - info@westlinkm7.com.au

The last campaign sent on 9 May 2018 for the Endeavour Energy overhead wire pull work at Cecil Park, hopefully you received this notice?

I will check the set up of the share path alerts to see if a welcome (or goodbye :( message) is sent out.

thanks for your feedback.

kind regards
Tracey, WestlinkM7

WestlinkM7
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby WestlinkM7 » Tue May 29, 2018 4:24 pm

syu wrote:Image

The proliferation of all these signs along the path has to be the direct result of all the recent queries "Is the path open?", "When's the path going to open?", "I don't receive any emails?", "Do they still send alerts?" from a few weeks back.


Hi syu :)

We've installed 20 signs to promote the shared path email alert, as you're right. We've have had queries from shared path users who did not know about the email alert. The idea came up during our safety meetings. We are looking to producing the "stay informed" signs on metal in the future, so they may become a more permanent addition to the signs out on the path.

What do you think of the signs? Are they helpful? Is there any information that we need to include?

thanks
Tracey, WestlinkM7

WestlinkM7
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby WestlinkM7 » Tue May 29, 2018 4:32 pm

vosadrian wrote:
g-boaf wrote:
That's the downhill right corner I think - I don't know what the idea of it is, I've never seen any people taking that exit. I'm also wary of taking that downhill too quickly given that sometimes people going uphill run wide.

If I were entering the cycleway at that point and saw a group coming downhill quickly, I'm going to wait for them to go, irrespective of right of way.


Not the downhill kink... the next one when you are heading South/West about 2-300m down. You kink right to go through a tunnel and then left to follow the path (then you go a few hundred metres to the creek with the longish bridge over it). On the right kink you can go straight to go up the quakers hill parkway exit. They have marked the path so there is a give way line if you are going right to continue on the path. There is a similar line for people coming down the entrance onto the path (straight in other direction). Someone coming up the path heading north/east would come under the tunnel, and if they wanted to exit the path to quakers parkway, the would have right of way over people staying on the path heading west.


Hi vosadrian and g-boaf

I'm meeting with the M7 Engineering team soon, and can get some feedback on this, for you. Will be in touch again with an updated post in the next week or so. Please feel free to email us with any feedback or observations like this, so we can follow up.

info@westlinkm7.com.au

thanks
Tracey, WestlinkM7

WestlinkM7
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby WestlinkM7 » Tue May 29, 2018 4:46 pm

biker jk wrote:
robbo mcs wrote:Better than posting on the website, ring the M7 control office directly and report the problem. You get to speak to a human, and you know the message has got through. Tell them how dangerous it is. They do listen and respond.

number is 98349261

keep that number on your phone. If there is ever an accident that needs emergency services etc, it is very helpful as they can coordinate and facilitate access etc


But they won't provide access keys to the local ambulance service.



Hi biker jk

The M7 control team can definitely help in the event of an incident, 24/7. Our teams cooperate and work closely with all emergency services in the event of a known incident. For the shared path, NSW Ambulance has keys for the bollards, and can call us for a key to any gated area, or have our incident response team attend. Please feel free to contact me with any specific concerns you may have about emergency services access to anywhere within the M7 corridor, and I can help.

info@westlinkm7.com.au
02 9834 9200

thanks
kind regards
Tracey, WestlinkM7

WestlinkM7
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby WestlinkM7 » Wed May 30, 2018 10:20 am

biker jk wrote:
vosadrian wrote:
g-boaf wrote:
That's the downhill right corner I think - I don't know what the idea of it is, I've never seen any people taking that exit. I'm also wary of taking that downhill too quickly given that sometimes people going uphill run wide.

If I were entering the cycleway at that point and saw a group coming downhill quickly, I'm going to wait for them to go, irrespective of right of way.


Not the downhill kink... the next one when you are heading South/West about 2-300m down. You kink right to go through a tunnel and then left to follow the path (then you go a few hundred metres to the creek with the longish bridge over it). On the right kink you can go straight to go up the quakers hill parkway exit. They have marked the path so there is a give way line if you are going right to continue on the path. There is a similar line for people coming down the entrance onto the path (straight in other direction). Someone coming up the path heading north/east would come under the tunnel, and if they wanted to exit the path to quakers parkway, the would have right of way over people staying on the path heading west.


It has to be an error. There's a Give Way sign on the entrance path but no sign on the main path (just the dashed line). I agree it will create some very dangerous situations. Perhaps Westlink/M7 needs to be informed?


Hi all, I've been reading through your comments about new line marking at Quakers Hill. I will bring it this matter up with the Assets team and they will be able to investigate and advise me on what changes have been made and why. As soon as I have some more information, I can update the forum with any actions we are taking. Feel free to email us directly with any observations or safety concerns, so they can be logged and we can address any issues - info@westlinkm7.com.au

thanks
Tracey, WestlinkM7

Jmuzz
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby Jmuzz » Wed May 30, 2018 12:57 pm

WestlinkM7 wrote:The last campaign sent on 9 May 2018 for the Endeavour Energy overhead wire pull work at Cecil Park, hopefully you received this notice?


Sorry, yes I have found that now by searching the date.
So I guess it does work though never had a flood email.
I have made a filter to tag and star emails from the address as higher priority.

For the signs, the email url should probably be a proper domain address rather than third party redirector.
Perhaps add QR code, though Australians don't really know how to use them unlike China where they are on every sign and TV ad.
A Facebook group could be a more modern way, plus has more user friendly picture and location uploads and ability to show better safety messages etc.

Perhaps some more signage for pedestrians to keep left and stay in the left-hand lane. Ie "this is a miniature road, follow usual road rules like you are a car".
And tips to wear reflectives and preferably get a $2 eBay blinking light if a regular night walker/jogger.
Though the low pedestrian traffic means they aren't that commonly encountered unlike other pathways.

WestlinkM7
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby WestlinkM7 » Wed May 30, 2018 1:33 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
WestlinkM7 wrote:The last campaign sent on 9 May 2018 for the Endeavour Energy overhead wire pull work at Cecil Park, hopefully you received this notice?


Sorry, yes I have found that now by searching the date.
So I guess it does work though never had a flood email.
I have made a filter to tag and star emails from the address as higher priority.

For the signs, the email url should probably be a proper domain address rather than third party redirector.
Perhaps add QR code, though Australians don't really know how to use them unlike China where they are on every sign and TV ad.
A Facebook group could be a more modern way, plus has more user friendly picture and location uploads and ability to show better safety messages etc.

Perhaps some more signage for pedestrians to keep left and stay in the left-hand lane. Ie "this is a miniature road, follow usual road rules like you are a car".
And tips to wear reflectives and preferably get a $2 eBay blinking light if a regular night walker/jogger.
Though the low pedestrian traffic means they aren't that commonly encountered unlike other pathways.


Hi Jmuzz

A 'shared path closed at Prestons' email alert has been sent today, as the section of path has been closed from the rain last night. Hopefully you received this one.

Also, thanks for your feedback and suggestions too. We are continually reviewing the requirements for any new or additional signage, in line with RTA, M7 operational and safety standards. The URL on the sign is the sign-up link, we can look at alternative if works better. Westlink M7 does not have a Facebook page, and we are not looking to establish one. I will pass your feedback on to M7 Assets team for further consideration.

kind regards
Tracey, WestlinkM7

LateStarter
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby LateStarter » Wed May 30, 2018 3:23 pm

Dear WestlinkM7, I would prefer you saved your money and rather than signs and emails why don't you just fix the path so that it doesn't get closed every time a cloud floats overhead, this has been going on for YEARS !!!, if it was a road used by cars it would have been fixed years ago. This is our standard commute for lots of us and it is highly annoying to find the gates lock again and only a tiny puddle on the outer side. Perhaps if we get each cyclist to bring a sand bucket each trip within a week we will have enough of a base to raise the path section enough, come on, just get it fixed ( and I don't care whose water it is, fix it)

Please (my mother said it is polite to say please)

WestlinkM7
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby WestlinkM7 » Thu May 31, 2018 10:33 am

LateStarter wrote:Dear WestlinkM7, I would prefer you saved your money and rather than signs and emails why don't you just fix the path so that it doesn't get closed every time a cloud floats overhead, this has been going on for YEARS !!!, if it was a road used by cars it would have been fixed years ago. This is our standard commute for lots of us and it is highly annoying to find the gates lock again and only a tiny puddle on the outer side. Perhaps if we get each cyclist to bring a sand bucket each trip within a week we will have enough of a base to raise the path section enough, come on, just get it fixed ( and I don't care whose water it is, fix it)

Please (my mother said it is polite to say please)


Hi LateStarter

We (Westlink M7) understand your concerns and frustrations about this issue and we are sorry for any inconvenience that the closure of the path at Prestons causes for our shared path users. As the shared path is owned by RMS, and Westlink M7 maintains it, unfortunately, we are unable to carry out any design changes, modifications or new engineering work to the shared path infrastructure, without any approval from RMS. We are working very closely with RMS to seek a solution. In the meantime, we will pass on your feedback to our Asset Manager and to RMS, for their consideration. Please note we take all feedback of this nature seriously. You are welcome to contact us at any time on any issue - info@westlinkm7.com.au or 02 9834 9200.

thanks
Tracey, WestlinkM7

Jmuzz
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby Jmuzz » Thu May 31, 2018 11:18 am

Thanks for some clarification on the ownership.

Who has jurisdiction over the water closure policy?
Roads don't get closed because one lane is a puddle of 1 inch deep standing water.

Who sets the policy of the big gate vs the usual 1m tall gate or chain which closes a road or access lane to park etc?

It's a huge overreaction to a puddle, even flooding causeways which will legit kill you (eg Audley in royal national park) don't get such lockout measures.

This morning I watched a cyclist use the M7 the whole way due to the closure. That is far more dangerous to everyone than the puddle could ever be.
The breakdown lane is a cycle lane, but I think we would all agree it is better for everyone if the safe pathway is used instead.
The Bernera Rd roundabouts are also far more dangerous than the puddle.

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g-boaf
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:28 am

Jmuzz wrote:This morning I watched a cyclist use the M7 the whole way due to the closure. That is far more dangerous to everyone than the puddle could ever be.
The breakdown lane is a cycle lane, but I think we would all agree it is better for everyone if the safe pathway is used instead.
The Bernera Rd roundabouts are also far more dangerous than the puddle.


Who is we? I totally disagree with that.

I've used the shoulder quite a lot, especially to get around the closure of the path heading from Camden Valley Way to the round about at Brenera Road. The shoulder is there much wider than the path even and much safer than using Brenera Road and the other rat-race side-streets.

I'll use the shoulder when I feel it is appropriate to avoid a dangerous diversion onto Brenera Road.

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biker jk
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby biker jk » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:51 am

g-boaf wrote:
Jmuzz wrote:This morning I watched a cyclist use the M7 the whole way due to the closure. That is far more dangerous to everyone than the puddle could ever be.
The breakdown lane is a cycle lane, but I think we would all agree it is better for everyone if the safe pathway is used instead.
The Bernera Rd roundabouts are also far more dangerous than the puddle.


Who is we? I totally disagree with that.

I've used the shoulder quite a lot, especially to get around the closure of the path heading from Camden Valley Way to the round about at Brenera Road. The shoulder is there much wider than the path even and much safer than using Brenera Road and the other rat-race side-streets.

I'll use the shoulder when I feel it is appropriate to avoid a dangerous diversion onto Brenera Road.


You don't believe the M7 shared path is safer than the M7 shoulder? Have you noticed the number of truck crashes on the M7, many ending up on the shoulder?

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g-boaf
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:08 pm

biker jk wrote:
g-boaf wrote:
Jmuzz wrote:This morning I watched a cyclist use the M7 the whole way due to the closure. That is far more dangerous to everyone than the puddle could ever be.
The breakdown lane is a cycle lane, but I think we would all agree it is better for everyone if the safe pathway is used instead.
The Bernera Rd roundabouts are also far more dangerous than the puddle.


Who is we? I totally disagree with that.

I've used the shoulder quite a lot, especially to get around the closure of the path heading from Camden Valley Way to the round about at Brenera Road. The shoulder is there much wider than the path even and much safer than using Brenera Road and the other rat-race side-streets.

I'll use the shoulder when I feel it is appropriate to avoid a dangerous diversion onto Brenera Road.


You don't believe the M7 shared path is safer than the M7 shoulder? Have you noticed the number of truck crashes on the M7, many ending up on the shoulder?



I don't believe the Brenera Road diversion is safer than the shoulder. So I'll use a short 1km or so section of the shoulder to avoid getting close shave passes from trucks and cars on Brenera Road.

I will prefer to make that decision myself rather than someone here making the decision for everyone else.

If I have to, get the legal department to send me a form and sign a waiver, just as you have to do in some places in the USA just to buy a bicycle and I'll do it. :roll:

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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:39 pm

g-boaf wrote:I don't believe the Brenera Road diversion is safer than the shoulder. So I'll use a short 1km or so section of the shoulder to avoid getting close shave passes from trucks and cars on Brenera Road.


I'm comparing M7 to the path.
And Bernera to the path.

One day someone using either diversion is going to be dead or seriously injured which wouldn't have happened if they were on the path.
It is flawed risk management to force bikes to go by more hazardous route just to manage a slip risk.

The puddle is slippery when muddy for sure, I know it from experience being crossed up on it.
But there are better ways to manage it by a bypassable gate rather than full lockout (which still gets bypassed anyway).

Eg low gate/bar at the puddle so bikes are forced to slow and look at the situation and can choose to walk over.

Or raise path 20cm of course, which will greatly reduce the number of flood mud events and duration.

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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby g-boaf » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:14 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
g-boaf wrote:I don't believe the Brenera Road diversion is safer than the shoulder. So I'll use a short 1km or so section of the shoulder to avoid getting close shave passes from trucks and cars on Brenera Road.


I'm comparing M7 to the path.
And Bernera to the path.

One day someone using either diversion is going to be dead or seriously injured which wouldn't have happened if they were on the path.
It is flawed risk management to force bikes to go by more hazardous route just to manage a slip risk.

The puddle is slippery when muddy for sure, I know it from experience being crossed up on it.
But there are better ways to manage it by a bypassable gate rather than full lockout (which still gets bypassed anyway).

Eg low gate/bar at the puddle so bikes are forced to slow and look at the situation and can choose to walk over.

Or raise path 20cm of course, which will greatly reduce the number of flood mud events and duration.



You are going pretty straight when going through the section with that puddle, I don't see how it is particularly risky for people to slip or crash on it. I'm on either 23mm or 26mm tyres and I used to get through there okay before these nuisance gates were installed.

I knew to go slowly because I didn't want to have too much water spraying up everywhere and making a mess.

But given the choice between the small section of motorway shoulder up to Brenera Road exit to the roundabout (heading north) and using the indicated road diversion, I'll take the motorway shoulder every time. It is miles wide, smooth and I'm well away from cars and trucks. I don't have to cross in front of them, I don't have to be anywhere near them. I feel much safer going that way.

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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:42 pm

Ive found the slippery bit, which does involve being too fast but anyway, stayed upright but its a big angle from front washout.

Image

How do you find the Southbound M7? Ive looked at the ramp and the M5 branch and it didnt feel very appealing.
Is there a good way for that?
The gate is usually...open...anyway.

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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby zebee » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:24 am

As long as any "go through at own risk" gate/bypass is trike/velo friendly. So no raised bar or narrow gate.

Hey WestlinkM7 can you share the decision making process? Why is it important to close the path? The underpass at Tempe was never closed when there was water even if it was neck deep to a triker! IS it because this is owned by private corporations rather than a council? Who have different liability constraints?

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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:44 am

They have covered the northern flood gate in rigid 5mm mesh so it is currently unpassable.

If only they would put that much effort into fixing the drainage.

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g-boaf
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:28 pm

Jmuzz wrote:They have covered the northern flood gate in rigid 5mm mesh so it is currently unpassable.

If only they would put that much effort into fixing the drainage.


So when someone riding the diversion on Brenera Rd gets hit by a truck and badly injured, the M7 will accept full liability for that?

Seriously, it's a bloody joke. It's a little bit of water - not some raging torrent of viscous lava! Get rid of the gates and be done with it.

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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby vosadrian » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:22 pm

Guys, I agree it is stupid, but they are just protecting themselves in the society we live in. If you hurt yourself on property they are responsible for while doing something that could have been foreseen as a risk of injury that was not mitigated, they are responsible. If they protect you from this risk by forcing you elsewhere that they are not responsible for, then they have no responsibility if you hurt yourself. If you were in the same position, you would do the same thing. I think you have to blame society here... not the carers of the path.

Obviously it would be great if the problem could be removed by fixing the flooding, but I presume that is on someone else's land and out of their control.

I think they do a great job of maintaining the path in general. I thought it would become an orphan due to the fact that cyclists don't pay any bills towards upkeep, but on the whole it has been well looked after for many years now.
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LateStarter
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby LateStarter » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:59 pm

I noticed that we have now had the gates for a few weeks short of FOUR YEARS !

Of course "Westlink M7 is working closely with Liverpool City Council on a permanent solution to the flooding. In the meantime, to manage this hazard, lockable gates are being installed on the shared path" (31 July 2014)

https://bikeliverpool.org.au/2014/07/31 ... ared-path/

The Chinese built a 1,350km / 350kph Very Fast Train line between Beijing and Shanghai in less than 4 years but they didn't have the engineering challenges of a hundred metres of cycleway to contend with. M7 must be holding out for a 50 year extension on their motorway contract in order to fix the path.

Jmuzz
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:29 pm

They have probably spent more on the fence over the years than the path fix would cost.
It's only a 3m strip which stays muddy because it pools there due to the camber facing into the man made M7 raised roadway embankment, of course there is nowhere for water to flow.
Just admit it's M7's man made pooling and fix it with a selection of methods instead of playing some lockout game to make someone else step in and pay.

I don't see the current monstrosity lasting much longer than usual anyway so more wastage.


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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:29 pm

LateStarter wrote:I noticed that we have now had the gates for a few weeks short of FOUR YEARS !

Of course "Westlink M7 is working closely with Liverpool City Council on a permanent solution to the flooding. In the meantime, to manage this hazard, lockable gates are being installed on the shared path" (31 July 2014)

https://bikeliverpool.org.au/2014/07/31 ... ared-path/

The Chinese built a 1,350km / 350kph Very Fast Train line between Beijing and Shanghai in less than 4 years but they didn't have the engineering challenges of a hundred metres of cycleway to contend with. M7 must be holding out for a 50 year extension on their motorway contract in order to fix the path.

Those gates never used to be there and in the time before the gates existed, whenever there was any water over the path I cannot remember ever having any trouble with it. I don't remember any other incidents either.

This is complete insanity sending people off onto a very busy road. People like me who ride a lot, okay we can handle it, people who don't ride a lot are not going to find that acceptable.

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recumbenteer
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby recumbenteer » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:45 pm

If no solution is forthcoming from M7 or Liverpool Council.... :(

seems like "they're" too damn precious
(read "scared of litigation" or it's too hard to get everyone "on side")...
to "get it organised & get stuck into it"....

I for one am fed up with the "diversion" :evil:


Obviously In this "litigious society" we live in....all the "boxes have to be ticked". :evil: :roll:



How about we make a "working bee"...


Let's get ourselves organised, turn up one weekend... Saturday/Sunday, shovel in hand.... and build a Stormwater dispersion/rubble pit along the section of pathway in question....... No doubt someone will have a "contact" to organise a digger, rubble supply, hessian sheeting... etc....it's close to Jedda Rd for parking & access



Obviously if we're all so keen to "break through the gates" & "temp fate", by riding through the closed off area ... so why would we not be "scared of a bit of hard yakka" & pitch in and have a go at a decent repair.... ourselves



lets all have a cup of cement & HTFU.... & make a difference in the world 8)


...of course the M7 will say NO.... :) so we won't ask.... :wink:

then it'll be easier to just ask for forgiveness, rather than ask for permission :mrgreen:
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Re: M7 Safety Alert Thread

Postby Jmuzz » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:09 pm

The flood bypass is terrible, can't believe they send carbon wheel roadies this way instead of going through one puddle!


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