The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

open topic, for anything cycling related.

Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:52 am

Aushiker wrote:
jules21 wrote:at least she's on a bike..

+ 1 ...

Can't find anything funny about the photo ...

Well, the placement of her child would be funny if it wasn't so disturbing :o She really needs a kiddy-trailer :|
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by BNA » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:58 am

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:58 am

Just a polite reminder, condsidering it's my thread, and the pic of the squashed child has been around for years....

This thread is for posts about observed incidents and discussions of those incidents. Going off-topic to discuss things such as the unfairness of red lights, bicycle helmets or "rights" should be carried out elsewhere.

And OT includes random pictures.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:14 pm

high_tea wrote:
newie wrote: Safety is the first priority, the politeness of letting them know I am coming is second. The other day I had a lady complain at me for not using the bell (even though I passed her safely and she had no objection on that front) and I rode along next to her for a bit and tried to explain to her why, but I couldn't get through. It was a polite conversation, but ineffective, so I won't be bothering with that again. Although I have previously had success with that conversation off the bike, with people who when they find out you are a cyclist bring it up as a gripe.


That's pretty much my take on it too. Riding safely is the priority, as you rightly point out. It's possible to ride safely and sound a bell roughly never. Because of this, I find the criticism of not having a bell completely unwarranted. The expectation that I should always sound my bell when passing is stupid*. I don't intend to start gratifying the stupid expectations of random strangers anytime soon. Bell + sensible riding is fine with me. No bell + sensible riding too. Take the sensible riding away and I have an issue, bell or no bell. The only thing I need one for, near as I can judge, is meeting some stupid expectations and not breaking a stupid law.

* Among other things, I can't see it scaling worth a tinker's cuss, so it must be some kind of depends-on-the-situation thing and I suspect asking 10 different people when you have to ping your bell would get you 10 different answers


That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using a bell. If you can't safely operate a bell, there's no way you can safely operate a whole bike.

And with the greatest of respect Twizzle, because you seem to be one of the more reasonable posters here - but I don't believe that starting a thread makes it "yours". Any thread on a public forum belongs to that forums community IMO.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:42 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using a bell. If you can't safely operate a bell, there's no way you can safely operate a whole bike.

And with the greatest of respect Twizzle, because you seem to be one of the more reasonable posters here - but I don't believe that starting a thread makes it "yours". Any thread on a public forum belongs to that forums community IMO.

Nice strawman. I said it was, generally speaking, safe not to ring a bell. You take this to mean it's dangerous to ring one. Wrong!
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:51 pm

high_tea wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:
That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using a bell. If you can't safely operate a bell, there's no way you can safely operate a whole bike.

And with the greatest of respect Twizzle, because you seem to be one of the more reasonable posters here - but I don't believe that starting a thread makes it "yours". Any thread on a public forum belongs to that forums community IMO.

Nice strawman. I said it was, generally speaking, safe not to ring a bell. You take this to mean it's dangerous to ring one. Wrong!


Ok - I'll take your word for it that it wasn't what you met. But even having read your clarification, I still can't understand what you were trying to say.

Does this make me an internet grammar nazi?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby high_tea » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:58 pm

fatdudeonabike wrote:
high_tea wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:
That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for not using a bell. If you can't safely operate a bell, there's no way you can safely operate a whole bike.

And with the greatest of respect Twizzle, because you seem to be one of the more reasonable posters here - but I don't believe that starting a thread makes it "yours". Any thread on a public forum belongs to that forums community IMO.

Nice strawman. I said it was, generally speaking, safe not to ring a bell. You take this to mean it's dangerous to ring one. Wrong!


Ok - I'll take your word for it that it wasn't what you met. But even having read your clarification, I still can't understand what you were trying to say.

Does this make me an internet grammar nazi?


No. I suppose it might make you an internet semantics nazi, but that's a game for experts only :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: In particular, you need to be clear on the difference between grammar and semantics before you go there. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I will in turn assume good faith on your part and try again. Ringing a bell is neither necessary nor sufficient to ensure safe riding. HTH. HAND.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Baalzamon » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:02 pm

To that idiot cyclist that I almost knocked off his bike
DO NOT go to the side of a car turning left at a roundabout you almost became a hood ornament /rant
Essentially I was turning left off karel Ave onto the onramp for Roe Hwy. I was looking to the right at traffic seeing when I could go, I got opening and went fully unaware I had a bike on my left, next thing it's scooting infront of me, if I had a petrol car not diesel he would have been a hood ornament and I would have had to call ambo.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:09 pm

gbh wrote:
malnar wrote:A couple of months ago I dinged a female jogger who moved left and as I passed she said ‘you could at least thank me’. When I ding, my intent is to let them know I’m there what they do is up to them so I don’t see why a thanks is necessary. Despite that, I thought about what she said and have started waving a thanks to those that make a real effort to move. I’ve found it feels good to do that and I hope the goodwill is received.


I try always to thank people - pedestrians, motorists, other cyclists - who adjust their behaviour to accommodate my cycling. Apart from the courtesy element, I can't think of anything more likely to ensure that they keep doing it.


THIS!!!!!!!

The good ones get a "Thanks!", a smile and wave, the meh ones get not much more than a muttered "ta" and the bad ones get anything from a blown kiss via an eyroll and head tap to a full blown Hellenic gesture of contempt. As always, option three varies widely according to incident and prevailing mood.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby fatdudeonabike » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:16 pm

high_tea wrote:No. I suppose it might make you an internet semantics nazi, but that's a game for experts only :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: In particular, you need to be clear on the difference between grammar and semantics before you go there. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:



I'll admit it - I lol'd.

I still strongly disagree on your other point though - you can give a lot more notice with a bell than you can with their voice. The people who I've experienced using their voices just don't use them effectively enough to be valuable. The fact remains that a bell can be heard from 50 metres - a voice can't.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:19 am

fatdudeonabike wrote:That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?


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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:28 am

twizzle wrote:On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?

Anywhere you wish to. Surely you can move your hands. :? If you have problems doing so then consider getting flat bars or some other bars that suit your abilities.

(I'm not advocating the need for bells. But the logic of "I have drop-bars therefore I can't use a bell" seems a little bizarre.)
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:41 am

twizzle wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?


Sent from my iThingy...


This is, I think an issue that hasn't really been addressed. Put the bell on the tops or a headset spacer and it is functionally useless, put it anywhere near the brifters in a way that will work and there's sodall room for your hands. I'd appreciate photos from any member who's solved this problem without recourse to an AZ or electronic device.

Late edit. Dunno about you H, but quite often the times I need an audible warning device are also the times it's a good idea to be covering the brakes, if not actually hauling hard on the levers because once again some iPed has chosen to blindly make a busy road part of their meanderings. I'll stick with the Acme Siren clenched ready between me teeth in the likely spots.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby bychosis » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:52 am

I tend to use either/or due to the bell placement when riding drop bar. I ended up mounting the bell on the stem. Usually when I want to ring it I'm slowing anyway and therefore more likely to be in the sit up position and its not too hard to get. When it's time for braking its too late for bell ringing anyway.

Method approaching pedestrians requiring bell: sit up/move hand and slow, attempt to ring bell twice (sometimes misfires), cover the brakes, use voice if required, use controls to avoid incident, then get back down and ride off into the next situation.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby g-boaf » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:25 am

human909 wrote:
twizzle wrote:On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?

Anywhere you wish to. Surely you can move your hands. :? If you have problems doing so then consider getting flat bars or some other bars that suit your abilities.

(I'm not advocating the need for bells. But the logic of "I have drop-bars therefore I can't use a bell" seems a little bizarre.)


I knew someone would say that - and I was almost going to say it in a sarcastic manner. This last comment "If you have problems doing so then consider getting flat bars or some other bars that suit your abilities." just seems particularly like flame-bait, or deliberately provocative and rude. I'm sure Twizzle is particularly skilled at riding a bike. :roll:

Anyhow, wasn't this a thread about dumb cyclists and pedestrians, rather than bells and braking methods? The OP has requested that in quite big and bold terms.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:16 am

twizzle wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?


On the bars just below the levers. Have done it on all three of my bikes that have dropbars. Works fine for me. I am still able to use the drops okay, however I am not on the drops when riding on shared paths where pedestrians are about or likely to be about. In such circumstances I am on the hoods and my hands are in a position to allow me to brake and where appropriate ring my bell with minimal movement of my hand. In an emergency situation my focus is on braking etc not ringing my bell so I don't try to use both at the same time.

This is not a great photo but you can get the idea of the positioning

Image

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:33 am

Aushiker wrote:Image


Andrew - what bell is that?
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby biker jk » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:42 am

Mulger bill wrote:
gbh wrote:
malnar wrote:A couple of months ago I dinged a female jogger who moved left and as I passed she said ‘you could at least thank me’. When I ding, my intent is to let them know I’m there what they do is up to them so I don’t see why a thanks is necessary. Despite that, I thought about what she said and have started waving a thanks to those that make a real effort to move. I’ve found it feels good to do that and I hope the goodwill is received.


I try always to thank people - pedestrians, motorists, other cyclists - who adjust their behaviour to accommodate my cycling. Apart from the courtesy element, I can't think of anything more likely to ensure that they keep doing it.


THIS!!!!!!!

The good ones get a "Thanks!", a smile and wave, the meh ones get not much more than a muttered "ta" and the bad ones get anything from a blown kiss via an eyroll and head tap to a full blown Hellenic gesture of contempt. As always, option three varies widely according to incident and prevailing mood.


If you go full Hellenic gesture of contempt then you won't be holding the handlebars. :lol:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby outnabike » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:06 am

g-boaf wrote:
human909 wrote:[quote="twizzle"]On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?[/quote]
Anywhere you wish to. Surely you can move your hands. :? If you have problems doing so then consider getting flat bars or some other bars that suit your abilities.

(I'm not advocating the need for bells. But the logic of "I have drop-bars therefore I can't use a bell" seems a little bizarre.)[/quote]

I knew someone would say that - and I was almost going to say it in a sarcastic manner. This last comment "If you have problems doing so then consider getting flat bars or some other bars that suit your abilities." just seems particularly like flame-bait, or deliberately provocative and rude. I'm sure Twizzle is particularly skilled at riding a bike. :roll:

Anyhow, wasn't this a thread about dumb cyclists and pedestrians, rather than bells and braking methods? The OP has requested that in quite big and bold terms.[/quote][/quote][/quote]


Hi g-boaf,
I am glad you didn't get sarcastic, I reckon human909 was responding to the OP's own question so couldn't really have been of topic.... :D
I am sure it was a light hearted comment to a very good rider who will appreciate the humour. I sure did. :lol:
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby human909 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:46 am

Mulger bill wrote:Late edit. Dunno about you H, but quite often the times I need an audible warning device are also the times it's a good idea to be covering the brakes, if not actually hauling hard on the levers because once again some iPed has chosen to blindly make a busy road part of their meanderings. I'll stick with the Acme Siren clenched ready between me teeth in the likely spots.


I can't fault the effectiveness of a Acme Siren. :wink:

In my experience audible warning are best use a LONG time before the potential conflict. ie; 50m beforehand. In my experience in a true emergency whether it be a car or a bike the best bet is to concentrate of braking and avoiding rather than using the horn or bell. Though I've been in the car when some people's first reaction is the horn rather than the brake! :shock: The only time that I remember issuing an emergency warning was along the Swanston st bike path and it stop the pedestrian in his/her tracks.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:18 am

jasonc wrote:
Aushiker wrote:


Andrew - what bell is that?


One of those little tinny things that makes a tiny 'ping' noise.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby twizzle » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:27 am

outnabike wrote:Hi g-boaf,
I am glad you didn't get sarcastic, I reckon human909 was responding to the OP's own question so couldn't really have been of topic.... :D
I am sure it was a light hearted comment to a very good rider who will appreciate the humour. I sure did. :lol:


No, that's h909 being his typical self. As far as I can tell, he only rides at pedestrian speeds therefore braking is always optional and he has lots of time between using a bell and having to move to the brakes.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby queequeg » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:38 am

twizzle wrote:
fatdudeonabike wrote:That is beyond crazy. We can move our hands to change gears, to brake, to grab bottles from underneath us, but ringing a bell which should be right next to your thumb is that much more difficult?

On a drop bar roadie, where would you suggest placing the bell so that I can ring a bell while still being able to reach the brake?


Sent from my iThingy...


Image
Image

Same place on both bikes, upside down with the little pinging thing pointing at an angle. I can flick the bell with my hands on the bars. I am usually riding on the hoods, so briefly moving one hand to the flats is not an issue. I have never had a need to use a bell while riding in the drops
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jasonc » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:43 am

twizzle wrote:
jasonc wrote:
Aushiker wrote:


Andrew - what bell is that?


One of those little tinny things that makes a tiny 'ping' noise.


when I google it, that model doesn't come up.
I would like to know what model comfortably fits over a 31.8mm bar with that strap.
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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby jules21 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:35 pm

jason, i have this one.

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Re: The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

Postby Aushiker » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:08 pm

jasonc wrote:Andrew - what bell is that?


That bell has been replaced now with a M Part Bicycle Bell For Oversized Bar (31.7-31.8mm) which I got from Probikekit for about $4.85. It is about the same size but has a screw mount so it can be tensioned better and the lever to ring the bell can be rotated to a position which suits you.

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