Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thread)

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby biker jk » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:16 pm

human909 wrote:
biker jk wrote:The public relations disaster that comes from riding through red lights makes cycling advocacy that much harder.


:roll: Yep, just like drink drivers and speeding motorists stop politicians from building more freeways. :roll:


No but cyclists running red lights and knocking down pedestrians do stop politicians from supporting the building of more cycling infrastructure. Indeed, there's now a push for registering bicycles as a result. Not really helping cycling advocacy, eh?
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by BNA » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:33 pm

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby high_tea » Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:33 pm

I dunno, it seems to me that rego-for-bicycles is one of those ideas that never goes away. OTOH it never seems to be taken seriously.

As far as the cyclists-are-lawbreakers argument goes, it comes up in the context of overtaking laws or building infrastructure or something and the answer to that argument is that it's completely irrelevant.

I don't particularly mind discussing the problem as such, nor solutions like better sensors. But it often comes up in completely unrelated discussions, basically as ad hominem. Red-light running isn't harming cycling advocacy in that case, the failure to point out that the claim is completely irrelevant is.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:15 pm

biker jk wrote:No but cyclists running red lights and knocking down pedestrians do stop politicians from supporting the building of more cycling infrastructure. Indeed, there's now a push for registering bicycles as a result. Not really helping cycling advocacy, eh?

Just like how all the motorists running red lights and knocking pedestrians down makes the pollies stop supporting building better roads ???? :roll:

Rather OT, but such a comment from any regular poster on here quite amazes me.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Baldy » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:44 pm

il padrone wrote:Rather OT, but such a comment from any regular poster on here quite amazes me.


Yes and that says a lot more about you than them.

Your incredulity towards anyone who forms a different opinion on subjective matters is plain for everyone to see.

But yeah, welcome back. Let the passive aggressive sniping begin :roll:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby biker jk » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:06 pm

il padrone wrote:
biker jk wrote:No but cyclists running red lights and knocking down pedestrians do stop politicians from supporting the building of more cycling infrastructure. Indeed, there's now a push for registering bicycles as a result. Not really helping cycling advocacy, eh?

Just like how all the motorists running red lights and knocking pedestrians down makes the pollies stop supporting building better roads ???? :roll:

Rather OT, but such a comment from any regular poster on here quite amazes me.


Perhaps you are a little simple (intelligence wise) but cyclists are a minority and so there's a higher hurdle to win over politicians. Public perceptions of cyclists as red light runners (and they're not just perceptions, based on my daily observations) harm our efforts to get politicians to implement policies which will help cycling. I'm amazed that a regular poster on here can't see that.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby DavidS » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:13 pm

The perception of cyclists as red light runners is promoted by those who want bikes registered/riders licenced/bikes off the roads. Comparisons between cyclist and driver behaviour shows that there are idiots in both camps. I hardly think your comments are helping bicycle advocacy eh biker jk.

As for infrastructure, there's plenty of infrastructure. It's called roads. Bicycles are road vehicles and roads are everywhere. Given some of the bike lanes I see on a daily basis I don't care that much for more crap infrastructure. I'd prefer to see the money spent on educating road users about the definition of a vehicle. Maybe if the education works we can even remove the silly laws which require the wearing of foam on my head when riding.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:26 pm

DavidS wrote:As for infrastructure, there's plenty of infrastructure. It's called roads. Bicycles are road vehicles and roads are everywhere. Given some of the bike lanes I see on a daily basis I don't care that much for more crap infrastructure. I'd prefer to see the money spent on educating road users about the definition of a vehicle.


My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:43 am

biker jk wrote:Perhaps you are a little simple (intelligence wise)......

Hmm... Oh thanks for the "compliment".

Such veiled snide insults almost drove me off this forum for keeps back in April and now it all begins again :evil: :evil:

Have a bit of a think about what you say before you post and "walk a mile in the other man's shoes"
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby g-boaf » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:53 am

biker jk wrote:
il padrone wrote:
biker jk wrote:No but cyclists running red lights and knocking down pedestrians do stop politicians from supporting the building of more cycling infrastructure. Indeed, there's now a push for registering bicycles as a result. Not really helping cycling advocacy, eh?

Just like how all the motorists running red lights and knocking pedestrians down makes the pollies stop supporting building better roads ???? :roll:

Rather OT, but such a comment from any regular poster on here quite amazes me.


Perhaps you are a little simple (intelligence wise) but cyclists are a minority and so there's a higher hurdle to win over politicians. Public perceptions of cyclists as red light runners (and they're not just perceptions, based on my daily observations) harm our efforts to get politicians to implement policies which will help cycling. I'm amazed that a regular poster on here can't see that.

At the moment, the general public wants rego for adult cyclists and even a lycra tax.

They also want existing bicycle lanes ripped up and all new ones stopped, along with cyclists being banned from the roads. That's a random sample of the general public opinion of cyclists at the moment.

So the politicians don't have a lot of incentive to do anything supportive for cyclists. It might even be bad for them to be seen to be supportive of cyclists.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Percrime » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:59 am

il padrone wrote:
biker jk wrote:Perhaps you are a little simple (intelligence wise)......

Hmm... Oh thanks for the "compliment".

Such veiled snide insults almost drove me off this forum for keeps back in April and now it all begins again :evil: :evil:

Have a bit of a think about what you say before you post and "walk a mile in the other man's shoes"

Do what I do Pete.
Just make a mental note and move on. Cycling is not such a big world... sooner or later you will meet him face to face. Then you can comment appropriately on his lack of manners.

Or he is no one in cycling and you wont ever meet him and have lost nothing.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby biker jk » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:13 am

Percrime wrote:
il padrone wrote:
biker jk wrote:Perhaps you are a little simple (intelligence wise)......

Hmm... Oh thanks for the "compliment".

Such veiled snide insults almost drove me off this forum for keeps back in April and now it all begins again :evil: :evil:

Have a bit of a think about what you say before you post and "walk a mile in the other man's shoes"

Do what I do Pete.
Just make a mental note and move on. Cycling is not such a big world... sooner or later you will meet him face to face. Then you can comment appropriately on his lack of manners.

Or he is no one in cycling and you wont ever meet him and have lost nothing.


So his frequent condescending tone is acceptable but when he receives some in return it's a lack of manners. Oh the double standard. :roll:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:23 am

One of the comments I have just read is simply rude and insulting

The intelligent thing to do is to debate the topic not the posters

Also that's the rule
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby citywomble » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:45 pm

Mikesbytes said:

The intelligent thing to do is to debate the topic not the posters


I agree and funnily enough that's just what seemed to be happening until a certain person came back.

I think Baldy hit the nail on the head.

Yes and that says a lot more about you than them.

Your incredulity towards anyone who forms a different opinion on subjective matters is plain for everyone to see.

But yeah, welcome back. Let the passive aggressive sniping begin


By the way, from my observations, a disproportionate amount of cyclists do run red lights and no amount of ignoring the obvious can change that. But, there is a substantial difference between cyclists and motorists, not just vulnerability but also basic physics and the laws of conservation of momentum. Cyclists personally and physically pay to make up lost momentum, motorists only pay later at the pump.

While it is unlawful it is both understandable, the problem is not so much the cyclist as the inadequate infrastructure that favours the motor vehicle. For example, at one intersection near me the running tally (hundreds of cyclists) is 95% red light runners at the crossing. BUT, absolutely essential they do. It takes two light cycles to cross, only four bikes can wait mid way, and at peak times up to 12 cyclists per cycle - go figure.

That said there are bad eggs in both baskets.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Percrime » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:53 am

biker jk wrote:
So his frequent condescending tone is acceptable but when he receives some in return it's a lack of manners. Oh the double standard. :roll:


Condensation is the subtle implication that one is smarter or knows more than another. Calling someone dumb is just rude. Yes ruder is worse that subtle implication. If there is a double standard between my occasional wince at someones condensation and my downright annoyance at rudeness I dont see it. Its more of a continuum of bad behavior with one behavior being a little bad and another much worse.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby simonn » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:30 am

Percrime wrote:Condensation is the subtle implication that one is smarter or knows more than another.


I beg to differ. I think you mean condescension.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Xplora » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:52 pm

simonn wrote:
Percrime wrote:Condensation is the subtle implication that one is smarter or knows more than another.


I beg to differ. I think you mean condescension.

I was rolling with it... assumed it meant "making the comment more condensed, and thereby causing offence by it" :lol:

Helmets are bad yo. Had a funny commute... 900m return to the shops on the MTB. Had the hat on... but rode the footpath on the return journey. Didn't cause any dramas. Falling onto my skull was certainly not an issue. "Riding a bike" just isn't dangerous enough to warrant it.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby high_tea » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:27 pm

Xplora wrote:
simonn wrote:
Percrime wrote:Condensation is the subtle implication that one is smarter or knows more than another.


I beg to differ. I think you mean condescension.

I was rolling with it... assumed it meant "making the comment more condensed, and thereby causing offence by it" :lol:

Helmets are bad yo. Had a funny commute... 900m return to the shops on the MTB. Had the hat on... but rode the footpath on the return journey. Didn't cause any dramas. Falling onto my skull was certainly not an issue. "Riding a bike" just isn't dangerous enough to warrant it.


Having read this anecdote, the scales have fallen from my eyes. I shall picket Parliament House forwith!

/sarcasm
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:59 pm

simonn wrote:
Percrime wrote:Condensation is the subtle implication that one is smarter or knows more than another.


I beg to differ. I think you mean condescension.

$20 says Perc was typing on a mobile and got auto-corrected.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby KenGS » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:55 pm

simonn wrote:
Percrime wrote:Condensation is the subtle implication that one is smarter or knows more than another.


I beg to differ. I think you mean condescension.

I see nothing but irony around here :lol:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:21 am

I don't do any ironing.... I leave that up to the missus.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Percrime » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:58 am

Heh. :oops:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:02 pm

Percrime wrote:Heh. :oops:

Did I win? :D
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby Xplora » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:29 pm

high_tea wrote:Having read this anecdote, the scales have fallen from my eyes. I shall picket Parliament House forwith!

/sarcasm

I hear there is a cream for that :mrgreen:
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby London Boy » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:17 pm

high_tea wrote:I dunno, it seems to me that rego-for-bicycles is one of those ideas that never goes away. OTOH it never seems to be taken seriously.

As far as the cyclists-are-lawbreakers argument goes, it comes up in the context of overtaking laws or building infrastructure or something and the answer to that argument is that it's completely irrelevant.

I can understand why that certain set of ignorant and ill-informed motorists would want to see cyclists registered.

But I wonder how the quid pro quo would fly? Registering and licensing cyclists would require enforcement. That would take policemen away from enforcing the rules that apply to large fast heavy metal objects. So to make up for it, we need to find some other means of enforcement. An option would be to install cameras - speed and red light - in the same kind of density as in, for example, the UK. They pay for themselves, directly in fines, and indirectly in reduced medical and other costs.

We would all be safer.
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (Was One & ONLY Helmet Thr

Postby il padrone » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:16 am

Not to mention the need to bump up the rego costs for motorists to pay for all this, because rego for cyclists certainly won't finance it.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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