Moron Motorists #3

BJL
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BJL » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:19 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
I can't speak for Colin, but my take on this is that most roads (and pretty well all roads built post-WWII) were designed and built for cars.
Whether they should have been designed and built for cars is another matter. And that doesn't mean other road users are not entitled to use them. But I don't see how you can dispute the notion that they were designed and built with cars in mind. And because bicycle lanes were not in the original design, adding them is retrofitting, by definition.


Sorry I haven't been able to respond to this thread sooner and may well be off topic, again.

My view remains the same. That roads are for people. They are not specifically for any form of transport. My view is that the roads have been built to 'accommodate' motor vehicles, NOT 'designed' for (there's a big difference), and as you have have said, NOT to the exclusion of other forms of road transport. Why do we need bike lanes I ask you? Painted lines on the roads protect you do they? Like I said, it's the piss poor attitude of motorists that drive such measures. And then they whinge about reduced road space because of bike lanes. Many of which are entirely unsuitable for their intended use and sometimes downright dangerous to use or ironically full of parked MOTOR VEHICLES! There's NO reason why we can't all share the roads without the need for bike lanes.Except the piss poor attitude of motorists. Segregated infrastructure only serves to reinforce and justify the piss poor attitude of motorists. Some of whom have already written to the media and expressed their 'opinion' that cyclists shouldn't be allowed to ride on ANY road without bike lanes. Well, how about the opposite? Motorists shouldn't be allowed to use any road without bike lanes? But no, all of a sudden I'm the evil one who is being unreasonable! Funny how things only work one way and people don't like it when their own ideas are applied to themselves.

And what exactly do the motoring lobbyists means by 'designed' for motor vehicles anyway? Your little Madza 3 or massive 4x4s? Motorists seem to think the roads are 'designed' for whatever vehicle they choose to drive at the time, no matter how big or stupidly unsuitable for the road it happens to be. I was almost hit by a Winnebago while riding between Emerald and Monbulk in The Dandenongs a while back. Narrow, winding mountain roads. Hardly 'designed' for such a vehicle. What about the caravans? The grey nomads who like to complain about cyclists on their caravan forums whilst they tow around caravans that don't even fit into their lane on the roads and expect others to make allowances for them.

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mikesbytes
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:29 pm

Unfortunately a significant proportion of the population will only take up cycling if they can ride without interaction with motor vehicles. While agreeing about what should ideally happen, the reality is that "ideal" isn't going to happen so that leaves us lobbying for separate cycleways. Use Sydney as an example, they are spending $52 billion on underground motorways where all they needed to do was to provide alternatives to driving the car, ie cycling and public transport
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:04 am

mikesbytes wrote:Unfortunately a significant proportion of the population will only take up cycling if they can ride without interaction with motor vehicles.

I don't see significant evidence for this extremity. Neither in Australia or overseas.
This is a typical street in Amsterdam.
Dutch cyclists and motorists share the road and interact all the time.

I do agree that key protected cycleways can help get more people on bikes. But a separated network is a pipe dream, it doesn't even exist in many areas of Holland. Shared roads is workable and it is already working in well in Melbourne's inner north.

Have a look here. This is pretty typical and becoming more typical in inner Melbourne. Cyclist in NORMAL clothes riding on the road, bikes locked up in the background. Cars also using the road interacting patiently with cyclist.

mikesbytes wrote:While agreeing about what should ideally happen, the reality is that "ideal" isn't going to happen so that leaves us lobbying for separate cycleways.

Yet it is already happening in areas of Melbourne without the need for separate cycleways. There are a couple of separated shared paths but the bulk of the infrastructure is on road. Cyclists are regularly interacting with motor vehicles and the drivers are getting used to behaving appropriately. In other areas they are trialling 30kph zones to protect vulnerable road users who are riding their bikes on the roads and pedestrians who are crossing the roads.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:32 pm

I'd rather ride on Melbourne roads than Sydney roads any day
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:51 pm

I don't mind the roads so much, it's the driver attitudes that are the issue for me.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Thoglette » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:27 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I'd rather ride on Melbourne roads than Sydney roads any day

trailgumby wrote:I don't mind the roads so much, it's the driver attitudes that are the issue for me.

human909 wrote:This is a typical street in Amsterdam.
Dutch cyclists and motorists share the road and interact all the time.


Attitude, entitlement, inappropriate regulations and poor "design" (mostly fixable with some white paint and some enforcement).

Note that the Dutch road shown above is clearly no place for 60kph speed limits.
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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:00 am

Thoglette wrote:Note that the Dutch road shown above is clearly no place for 60kph speed limits.

Exactly. Which although is discussed, is probably not as emphasised as much as it should be on these forums.

If you have speed limits of 30kph on most residential roads then suddenly you create an environment that is less hostile for cyclists. It is no coincidence that the photo I grabbed of 'inner Melbourne' lies inside the new 30kph trial.

Thoglette wrote:Attitude, entitlement, inappropriate regulations and poor "design" (mostly fixable with some white paint and some enforcement).

It also seems to be self fixing in areas where cycling has become commonplace. I've NEVER seen police out patrolling the cycle dense areas I often refer to. But motorists are mostly courteous and considerate.

One cyclists are out in numbers motorists realise that they are here to stay. They learn how to interact appropriately and the learn that cyclists are just people too. Seeing women and children cyclists and very little Lycra no doubt helps things too. Not to mention babies on the backs of bikes!

When you see a father riding along with 3 young girls on one bike surely you can't help but smile! :-D

(Does that footage of the TV news team harassing a mother with her child on a bike still exist on the web? Link? Horrible nasty stuff,)

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby trailgumby » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:01 pm

Unfortunately the rider directly in front of me and I each move at the critical instant and the forward camera's view slightly obscured, but this pass was about a handlebar width away from skittling our most senior rider. Thoroughly unnecessary.


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby hunch » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:45 pm

human909 wrote:(Does that footage of the TV news team harassing a mother with her child on a bike still exist on the web? Link? Horrible nasty stuff,)


Does seem like it's gone. It was Ben Fordham doing a bit of opportunistic harassment off duty, then presenting it on ACA a couple of days later.

Last I heard, one of the unmoderated comments on their webpage, left up for over a year, was very defamatory of the woman and she was taking action - hopefully there was some comeuppance! :evil:

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:56 pm

hunch wrote:
human909 wrote:(Does that footage of the TV news team harassing a mother with her child on a bike still exist on the web? Link? Horrible nasty stuff,)


Does seem like it's gone. It was Ben Fordham doing a bit of opportunistic harassment off duty, then presenting it on ACA a couple of days later.

Last I heard, one of the unmoderated comments on their webpage, left up for over a year, was very defamatory of the woman and she was taking action - hopefully there was some comeuppance! :evil:

That's right she was endangering her child's life by transporting the child on a bicycle. Footage was at or near railway square off memory
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby pj » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:50 pm

Unfortunately you can't hear the excessive engine RPM as they pass me!


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby HenryCharlie » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:07 pm

I see that they moved into the other lane to go round you, what did they do wrong?
I overtook some people going uphill once.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby pj » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:50 pm

HenryCharlie wrote:I see that they moved into the other lane to go round you, what did they do wrong?


First issue for me is that I was travelling at 35 km/hr and they were way too close behind me. It's unrealistic to expect a 3 second gap but there was no chance of them stopping if I came off.

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When they passed me they were well within 1m

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Sorry if it seems pedantic, here and youtube is the only place I can vent :wink:

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby human909 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:35 pm

Agreed FAR FAR too close.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby DavidS » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:24 pm

I had an idiot beeping me and then close pass as he just had to get past me before he had to slow down as the car in the next lane was turning right. All this so he could beat me to the red ligh, then again, he just went straight through the red light so that clearly wasn't an issue.

I just wish these knobs would learn the road rules - change lanes to pass another vehicle. If I had known what he was about to do I would have been smack bang in the middle of the lane. A@$*hole.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby antigee » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:48 pm

pj wrote:
HenryCharlie wrote:I see that they moved into the other lane to go round you, what did they do wrong?


First issue for me is that I was travelling at 35 km/hr and they were way too close behind me. It's unrealistic to expect a 3 second gap but there was no chance of them stopping if I came off.................


moved into the other lane when could but not with any real consideration....... aggressive close and then closer - can't really calc from youtube but reckon around 1 second gap when entering section with vehicles to right and less at end - no benefit to driver doing this other than to intimidate.....that's what they did wrong

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby pj » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:36 am

human909 wrote:Agreed FAR FAR too close.

DavidS wrote:I just wish these knobs would learn the road rules - change lanes to pass another vehicle

antigee wrote:no benefit to driver doing this other than to intimidate


Yep totally agree.

Not sure if this driver didn't see the speed bump or didn't see the oncoming car :? !? Good thing they aborted.


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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby g-boaf » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:08 am

That's a pretty stupid MGIF attempt.

I had one thinking of doing a MGIF, on the approach to a right corner that I take at 40km/h, a speed that would be difficult for a car to do.

I'm on the drops and could see this out of the corner of my eye. The driver moved out then decided to move back in. Fortunately.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby BrisBoy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:55 am

pj wrote:
human909 wrote:Agreed FAR FAR too close.

DavidS wrote:I just wish these knobs would learn the road rules - change lanes to pass another vehicle

antigee wrote:no benefit to driver doing this other than to intimidate


Yep totally agree.

Not sure if this driver didn't see the speed bump or didn't see the oncoming car :? !? Good thing they aborted.



From his (or her? can't see) behaviour afafterwards I'd say he realised he done a very stupid, dangerous thing. Hopefully that sticks in his mind for a while. Glad you're safe though.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby HenryCharlie » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:32 pm

antigee wrote:
pj wrote:
HenryCharlie wrote:I see that they moved into the other lane to go round you, what did they do wrong?


First issue for me is that I was travelling at 35 km/hr and they were way too close behind me. It's unrealistic to expect a 3 second gap but there was no chance of them stopping if I came off.................


moved into the other lane when could but not with any real consideration....... aggressive close and then closer - can't really calc from youtube but reckon around 1 second gap when entering section with vehicles to right and less at end - no benefit to driver doing this other than to intimidate.....that's what they did wrong


I think I've been close passed way too much as my tolerance for it now is sadly much higher. I was thinking that at least this person pulled out and gave you some room, without yelling, beeping or throwing stuff.
I overtook some people going uphill once.

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby Ross » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:53 pm

Sydney truck driver caught using 2 mobile phones at once

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia ... ar-BBM00g7

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby pj » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:08 pm

BrisBoy wrote:From his (or her? can't see) behaviour afafterwards I'd say he realised he done a very stupid, dangerous thing. Hopefully that sticks in his mind for a while. Glad you're safe though.


Very strange behaviour, he was driving behind me for a while leaving me heaps of space, then suddenly decides to overtake on a corner. He gave me an apologetic wave and nod afterwards then stayed well back!

HenryCharlie wrote:I think I've been close passed way too much as my tolerance for it now is sadly much higher. I was thinking that at least this person pulled out and gave you some room, without yelling, beeping or throwing stuff.


Surprisingly I haven't anything physically thrown at me yet!

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby pj » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:10 pm

Ross wrote:Sydney truck driver caught using 2 mobile phones at once

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia ... ar-BBM00g7

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Crazy, running his business while stuck in traffic :lol:

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby solmanic » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:36 am

Ross wrote:Sydney truck driver caught using 2 mobile phones at once

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia ... ar-BBM00g7

Image


And they say he got TWO fines for the infringement. Nice one but the cops here don't treat close passing a group ride as multiple infringements!

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Re: Moron Motorists #3

Postby jasonc » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:08 am

solmanic wrote:And they say he got TWO fines for the infringement. Nice one but the cops here don't treat close passing a group ride as multiple infringements!

Passing a group ride close - only have to be 8 riders a you would lose your licence
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