29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby DavidL » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:03 pm

Aidan,

Have done just over 400km on it so far based on Strava and I would guess that around 300km of that would be on the tarmac. When my MTB was out of action I did use this as a replacement which is why the pannier is removed in this pic but the rear mech had a party with a stick and the spokes which bent the hanger and destroyed the derailleur. Though all back going again now as of last week.

I use this as my commuter mainly at the moment and the tyres are nice to ride on, the 2.2" helps compensate for no suspension on our rough roads up this way. However I would say that the rear is about 1/3-1/2 worn, so doubt I will see 2,000km out of these tyres. But it needs to be considered that my daily commute is just up and down a hill that averages around 10%, so the climb home each day is tearing the knobs off the tyres. On the flat you would get better mileage.

But they roll very well and don't know what I will replace them with at this stage when the finally do wear out. Very happy with the Race Kings, but not sure if they are the right style of tyre for what I mainly do.

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by BNA » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:47 pm

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:47 pm

Tyres that are half worn after 400kms ??? :shock:

Mate, bin them straight off and fit some real tyres to that bike. I can most strongly recommend a set of Vittoria Randonneur Cross, but just about any tyre wold be better than those you have fitted. :|
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:17 pm

il padrone wrote:Tyres that are half worn after 400kms ??? :shock:

Mate, bin them straight off and fit some real tyres to that bike. I can most strongly recommend a set of Vittoria Randonneur Cross, but just about any tyre wold be better than those you have fitted. :|

Good tyres indeed but if they dont come fatter than 700x38 (40-622) are they going to offer the cush of a fully fledged 29er tyre :?:
http://www.bicyclestore.com.au/vittoria ... cross.html
Shame they dont come a little fatter like the 26" which comes in a 1.75
They go for good prices and get good reviews mind you
http://road.cc/content/review/15534-vit ... trail-tyre

I'm thinking as an entry into 700c of getting some Schwalbe Big Apples with kevlar belt protection and 2.35 inches of shock absorption.
http://www.jensonusa.com/Schwalbe-Big-A ... -29Er-Tire
I imagine the Ogres 4130 stovepiping to be quite jarring given the excuse of undertyred for its frame weight but its only a theory thus far.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:37 pm

If it's beef you want in your tyres I'd go for some Marathon Mondial, available up to 28 x 2.00 (26 x 2.3 for MTB wheels). These are a better casing than the Big Apple IMHO, thicker and with a better puncture protection layer I believe.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:47 pm

il padrone wrote:If it's beef you want in your tyres I'd go for some Marathon Mondial, available up to 28 x 2.00 (26 x 2.3 for MTB wheels). These are a better casing than the Big Apple IMHO, thicker and with a better puncture protection layer I believe.

Well its mostly air volume I'm thinking about due to the awful straight (what the...) fork of the disk braked Ogre which I can see being jarring if left to it own devices. I shall look at the Mondail with interest. My desire for CX-Rays has met some derision but when you see the weights of some of the 29er tyres you might appreciate the attraction for wanting lighter wheels without compromising strength.
Thanks for the Mondail tip! :D
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby DavidL » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:10 pm

il padrone wrote:Tyres that are half worn after 400kms ??? :shock:

Mate, bin them straight off and fit some real tyres to that bike. I can most strongly recommend a set of Vittoria Randonneur Cross, but just about any tyre wold be better than those you have fitted. :|


Like I said, they are not a good road tyre, other than they are light. At 650gm for a 2.2inch 29er tyre they are light and fast. But won't last long on the road and I would guess glass would cut them up bad.

I am looking at getting another wheelset and running these for single-track and getting something a little thinner and with more solid tread blocks/slick for everyday riding. But for now this is just the bike I jump on if I want to ride somewhere so these tyres will stay for now until I get around to showing it some more TLC someday. Also because this bike is still used for gravel and single track I need something more than city tyres on it.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:17 pm

If you are going to run these tyres at low enough pressure to have any significant "cush", then I think it likely you are going to be disappointed by the amount of drag they will generate.

Even with fast rolling Marathon Supremes there is a noticeable increase in drag between the 1.6" tyre and the 2.0" tyre. And that is with the tyre inflated hard.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:33 pm

Drag? Cush?

Outback Central Australia. We were running the Marathon Mondials (2.3") as low as 20psi due to the deep sandy road to Andado Station. This was hauling 50-60kgs of gear and I had three wheels rolling - still managed to knock out 65kms per day (with a big slab of siesta time during the afternoon due to heat).

At good pressure (50-55psi) on the blacktop they seemed to roll along fine. But I was not trying to do some race - happy with 70-90km days.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:42 pm

RonK wrote:If you are going to run these tyres at low enough pressure to have any significant "cush", then I think it likely you are going to be disappointed by the amount of drag they will generate.

Even with fast rolling Marathon Supremes there is a noticeable increase in drag between the 1.6" tyre and the 2.0" tyre. And that is with the tyre inflated hard.

Yeah, unfortunitely I get that. Running the Moulton on 1.1x 406 was the original Marathon tyres I used on the Moulton with a max inflation of 110psi.
I used 100 psi and they were quite a fast tyre especially compared to the Nokian 1.9 bmx tyres the bike came with. When I had issue with supply when I was in NZ I was forced to use something else, so I went with a Maxxis Grifter 1.9x406 80 min 100psi Max. Although high pressure, the comfort factor was streets ahead of the skinny 1.1 Marathons. I never went back. I think the Moulton currently runs 1.75 Marathon plus's and at a low 50psi and they too are a comfortable tyre. I dont think about the drag which must be shocking compared to the others.
I bet both the second sets of tyres mentioned have a huge rolling resistance compared to the 1.1 high pressure Marathons I started with but I really prefer the comfort factor of being over-tyred. :roll:
I'm hoping for a somewhat similar outcome from the big heavy 29er wheels. As the bike will be predominantly a long distance tourer (both on road and off), and I cant store an array of tyres, I'm going to have to go with one set for day to day riding and find something suitable for touring with a off road ability and big comfort factor. I think thats going to mean low pressure and fat with lots of drag.
Lucky I'm happy with lowish kms compared to many here. :shock:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:43 pm

il padrone wrote:Drag? Cush?

Outback Central Australia. We were running the Marathon Mondials (2.3") as low as 20psi due to the deep sandy road to Andado Station. This was hauling 50-60kgs of gear and I had three wheels rolling - still managed to knock out 65kms per day (with a big slab of siesta time during the afternoon due to heat).

At good pressure (50-55psi) on the blacktop they seemed to roll along fine. But I was not trying to do some race - happy with 70-90km days.

Pretty much my expectation :D at the 70km end of things more likely than the 90. If the Mondail came in a 2.3x700c I'd be all over them.
Is that 28 you mentioned likely to fit on a 700C rim? I know next to nothing about the bigger sizes except that there appears to be less choice than in the 26" range. I did know this when I started though and its a quest for comfort that decided me to experiment with the larger sized wheels. :|
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:33 pm

28" is an alternative designation for 700C. For some really strange reason 29er is as well :? :?: :?: 28/700C tyres generally do not come in as wide a size as 26", don't know why.

Cycling standards - so many mysteries.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:46 pm

il padrone wrote:Cycling standards - so many mysteries.

Thank you for clearing that one up IP :D
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:15 am

il padrone wrote:Outback Central Australia. We were running the Marathon Mondials (2.3") as low as 20psi due to the deep sandy road to Andado Station. This was hauling 50-60kgs of gear and I had three wheels rolling - still managed to knock out 65kms per day (with a big slab of siesta time during the afternoon due to heat).

No thanks. That's not a tour - that's an ordeal.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:21 am

il padrone wrote:28" is an alternative designation for 700C. For some really strange reason 29er is as well :? :?: :?: 28/700C tyres generally do not come in as wide a size as 26", don't know why.

Cycling standards - so many mysteries.

Look at Schwalbe beyond the Marathon range and the 28"x2.0" Big Apple Plus might tick a few boxes, but it's awfully heavy. Not quite as puncture-proof but a lot lighter is the 28"x2.35" Big Apple. Step down again and there is the 28"x2.15" Big Ben or the 29"x2.35" Super Moto. these tyres will all fit a rim with an ERD of 622mm, i.e. a 700C or 29er rim.

The best choice for Aidan is probably the 28"x2.35" Big Apple.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby il padrone » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:51 am

RonK wrote:
il padrone wrote:Outback Central Australia. We were running the Marathon Mondials (2.3") as low as 20psi due to the deep sandy road to Andado Station. This was hauling 50-60kgs of gear and I had three wheels rolling - still managed to knock out 65kms per day (with a big slab of siesta time during the afternoon due to heat).

No thanks. That's not a tour - that's an ordeal.

Ah well, we had a very enjoyable time. Only a few days got to be really too trying - mostly the hot ones, when it got to 39C by 1pm.

Image
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:12 am

il padrone wrote:
RonK wrote:
il padrone wrote:Outback Central Australia. We were running the Marathon Mondials (2.3") as low as 20psi due to the deep sandy road to Andado Station. This was hauling 50-60kgs of gear and I had three wheels rolling - still managed to knock out 65kms per day (with a big slab of siesta time during the afternoon due to heat).

No thanks. That's not a tour - that's an ordeal.

Ah well, we had a very enjoyable time. Only a few days got to be really too trying - mostly the hot ones, when it got to 39C by 1pm.

Nice pics, but best enjoyed from the comfort of an air-conditioned living room.

I grew up in the NT - it holds little appeal to me. Last visit was to Ayers Rock and the Olgas in February 1984 - the daytime temperature was in the high 40's. I find all the redness quite literally depressing.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:51 am

RonK wrote: I find all the redness quite literally depressing.

I've heard drinking red can do that. Time to switch to a nice Kiwi Sav Blanc? :wink: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby HappyHumber » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:56 pm

Aidan, I'll be in the market sometime in the coming month or two for a pair of Big Apples in 60-622 (28"x2.35"). Apart from the Jenson USA link you just provided. I'd only seen that biggest size instock/available at $60ea from an Aussie site.

Unfortunately I found the product range listed on the EU & US Schwalbes site versus what seemed to be in stock and available from e-tailers to be quite different :( The Super Motos caught my eye initially - but I was damned if I could find a store that had them.

Anyway... bear me in mind if you want to combine an order to Perth.
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:28 pm

Hi Kym,
will do!
Cheers
Aidan :D
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby RonK » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:59 pm

rifraf wrote:Time to switch to a nice Kiwi Sav Blanc? :wink: :lol: :lol:

Are you kidding? I'm none too fond of sheep dip. :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:08 pm

HappyHumber wrote:Aidan, I'll be in the market sometime in the coming month or two for a pair of Big Apples in 60-622 (28"x2.35"). Apart from the Jenson USA link you just provided. I'd only seen that biggest size instock/available at $60ea from an Aussie site.

Unfortunately I found the product range listed on the EU & US Schwalbes site versus what seemed to be in stock and available from e-tailers to be quite different :( The Super Motos caught my eye initially - but I was damned if I could find a store that had them.

Anyway... bear me in mind if you want to combine an order to Perth.

Hi Kym,
hey check out ebay :idea: as there is some decent prices there especially if you'll settle for a narrower big apple.
Alternatively check out Ze Germans with pedestrian postage at Bike24 as their lay out for tyre searches, tyre info, as well as sheer availability seems second to none. :!:
I'm currently contemplating some 2" supremes for local use and some 2' mondails for travels further afield.
Some of the weights of large tyres is just obscene. I looked at some 2' big apple plus and nearly fainted not at the price but at the 1.1kg per unit. :shock:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby DavidL » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:37 pm

Ok, some 2" Surpreme's are on the cards for the Fargo and will get some fenders for the winter.

But think a second wheelset might be in order for the single track, as the Marathon's will limit use to hard pavement/gravel and I can run something a little more useful than the RaceKings.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:01 am

DavidL wrote:Ok, some 2" Surpreme's are on the cards for the Fargo and will get some fenders for the winter.

But think a second wheelset might be in order for the single track, as the Marathon's will limit use to hard pavement/gravel and I can run something a little more useful than the RaceKings.

- David.


Keen to hear what fenders you decide on and why David, so keep us informed.
As for the Supremes, check out the prices on Bike24.com.
I just grabbed 2 big apples for 41,84 eu (the pair) or approx $53.51 Au. plus postage of course. I grabbed some other stuff as well so didnt notice the postage.
Next I want some of their Supremes (700-2.00) for a pair 55.30 EUR = 70.77 AUD+P&P
and some Mondails in 2.00 which for the pair is: 67.06 EUR = 85.82 AUD +P&P
Bike24 will send either just a little or quite a lot for the same postage price of 20 euros.
Also SJS Cycles as I read somewhere they had a Schwalbe special on currently (three week sale 25% off ends 1st March)
(Scratch that as SJS only have the supreme in 40-622 where you want 50-622(700-2.00 or also called 28-2.00))
Maybe bike24 have some fenders? :idea:
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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby DavidL » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:36 pm

Wiggle currently have the 50-622 for just under $53, and buying a pair will have free shipping AND currently an extra 10% off that if you spend over $165.

Fenders seem to be hard to come across for 29ers. There are Hybrid versions that are 50mm wide which might surfice, but the only 29er specific guards I have found are Plant Bike Cascadia 29er which have good online reviews and at 65mm wide with disc brake support seem to tick all the boxes.

Looks like the Fargo is going to be a dedicated winter commuter for this season.

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Re: 29er as a Road and Single-track Tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:15 pm

DavidL wrote:Wiggle currently have the 50-622 for just under $53, and buying a pair will have free shipping AND currently an extra 10% off that if you spend over $165.

Fenders seem to be hard to come across for 29ers. There are Hybrid versions that are 50mm wide which might surfice, but the only 29er specific guards I have found are Plant Bike Cascadia 29er which have good online reviews and at 65mm wide with disc brake support seem to tick all the boxes.

Looks like the Fargo is going to be a dedicated winter commuter for this season.

- David.

I cant see the Supreme in 29er at Wiggle David - that link shows "discontinued".
Let us know if you find a decent price on the Cascadias as most of the availability I've seen encumbers large postage costs.
I'm considering some white ones to contrast with my Ogres back frame.
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