Spamday Herald Sun

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Spamday Herald Sun

Postby il padrone » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:57 am

The usual set-piece from the Feral Hun today. They set up their own speed camera specifically to target an area with a ridiculous 'recommended speed'. By the way Ms Harris and Mr Nash, that means it is not a limit at all, and solely at the discretion of the rider :idea: :roll:

But this was what I fond to be the most disturbing comment:

Bicycle Network Victoria spokesman Garry Brennan said Southbank promenade had a well-known "design failure'' because there was no alternative through route or defined path for bikes.

But he said cyclists should only go as fast as runners on shared paths.


:shock: :x

Damn fool comment. So we should all stick to 10kmh?? On all shared paths??

Guess what Gary, today I rode a few shared paths. Apalling signage by the way - I knew these paths but still took a couple of wrong turns; anyone strange to the area would have misssed at least a dozen turns at unsigned and obscure junctions. At some sections I was doing four times the recommended speed!! Yes, four times. Recommended speed was 5kmh and yet, in the wet it was OK to do 20kmh (no pedestrians about).

Melbourne might lay claim to being a world class cycling city, but many of our shared paths are an insult to cyclists.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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by BNA » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:59 pm

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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby find_bruce » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:59 pm

You are misunderstanding what he said - "as fast as runners" Marathon pace is ~20km/h, Usain Bolt is 36 km/h. Somewhere in there ought to cover it :lol:
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby Mulger bill » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:09 pm

Which reminds me...
Time to clean the budgies cage.

Did you read the letters page?
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby iaintas » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:09 pm

But i did learn a new peice of legislation that could be used to charge car drivers next time you get buzzed or T-boned.

http://www.australiancriminallawyers.co ... ering_life
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby g-boaf » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:18 pm

il padrone wrote:Damn fool comment. So we should all stick to 10kmh?? On all shared paths??

Guess what Gary, today I rode a few shared paths. Apalling signage by the way - I knew these paths but still took a couple of wrong turns; anyone strange to the area would have misssed at least a dozen turns at unsigned and obscure junctions. At some sections I was doing four times the recommended speed!! Yes, four times. Recommended speed was 5kmh and yet, in the wet it was OK to do 20kmh (no pedestrians about).

Melbourne might lay claim to being a world class cycling city, but many of our shared paths are an insult to cyclists.


I've suggested this numerous times - but it's pointless. All you get is the argument that you have to "share" the paths, which means pedestrians have right of way, blah blah blah, hoon cyclists, etc, TDF wannabes... :roll:

I just give up. People need to exercise common sense and caution. That means going at appropriate speeds. So in a clear area with nothing around, why not do 45km/h? I do. Sometimes even 50km/h, even 70km/h on a wide downhill stretch. And it was fine. But when it is narrow and there are pedestrians, 15-20km/h is okay. If it's very crowded, 10km/h or less is what I do.

And guess what, I do okay with most pedestrians. None of them complain. I give them plenty of warning I'm going to pass them on the right side and it all seems to work fine. If they look unsure, I slow down in plenty of time.

This makes the Herald-Sun's trashy melodramatic piece utterly worthless and pointless.

I also want to know how you do 5km/h on a bicycle? Mine is extremely twitchy at such low speeds. No design fault, that's the way it is. It's designed for high speeds, not going extremely slow.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby Xplora » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:12 pm

Pedestrians should hurry up and go as fast as my bicycle. Equally ridiculous. Does a runner have precedence over a slow moving convoy of prams or schoolkids? Do they automatically have no right to use the path faster than anyone else, because we must appeal to the lowest common denominator?

When I see absolute, unequivocal respect from drivers for my unalienable rights to use the road with my vehicle at a speed that respects me the SAME, I expect I'd feel somewhat more compelled to slow down. Simple fact is that some people are unwilling to share with anyone, and bikes currently have less legal protection than any other group.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby London Boy » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:32 am

il padrone wrote:Melbourne might lay claim to being a world class cycling city, but many of our shared paths are an insult to cyclists.

I'm not aware that Melbourne is a world-class anything much.

It's a wannabe European city that can't cut it, but otherwise has nothing much to offer. You could compare it to Brisbane if you like, or Adelaide (oversized country towns) or to Perth (dormitory for the Pilbara). More sophisticated than those, but that doesn't exactly get you very far. They, at least, know where they fit in the world...

And Melbourne has a definite cringe, justifiably so, when compared with Sydney. Sydney is, of course, a world class city.

I can say that as someone who grew up understanding what non-Australians think of Australia and its cities, as well as being a naturalised Australian who understands how Australians see themselves.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby il padrone » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:38 am

I can see this kicking off now :twisted:
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby iaintas » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:29 am

So melbourne is to Australia as London is to Europe?

Besides i totally disagree on Sydney being a world Class city, its overpopulated expensive yuppie infested sprawling city with an ugly building on the water. And as someone who has lived in both Melbourne and Sydney but does not originate from either im pretty impartial too. :D
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby human909 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:58 am

London Boy wrote:
il padrone wrote:Melbourne might lay claim to being a world class cycling city, but many of our shared paths are an insult to cyclists.

I'm not aware that Melbourne is a world-class anything much.

It's a wannabe European city that can't cut it, but otherwise has nothing much to offer. You could compare it to Brisbane if you like, or Adelaide (oversized country towns) or to Perth (dormitory for the Pilbara). More sophisticated than those, but that doesn't exactly get you very far. They, at least, know where they fit in the world...

And Melbourne has a definite cringe, justifiably so, when compared with Sydney. Sydney is, of course, a world class city.

I can say that as someone who grew up understanding what non-Australians think of Australia and its cities, as well as being a naturalised Australian who understands how Australians see themselves.


I don't know where to start with this. So I think I won't. It sounds like you've 'naturalised' with some tinted glasses.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby simonn » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:18 am

human909 wrote:
London Boy wrote:
il padrone wrote:Melbourne might lay claim to being a world class cycling city, but many of our shared paths are an insult to cyclists.

I'm not aware that Melbourne is a world-class anything much.

It's a wannabe European city that can't cut it, but otherwise has nothing much to offer. You could compare it to Brisbane if you like, or Adelaide (oversized country towns) or to Perth (dormitory for the Pilbara). More sophisticated than those, but that doesn't exactly get you very far. They, at least, know where they fit in the world...

And Melbourne has a definite cringe, justifiably so, when compared with Sydney. Sydney is, of course, a world class city.

I can say that as someone who grew up understanding what non-Australians think of Australia and its cities, as well as being a naturalised Australian who understands how Australians see themselves.


I don't know where to start with this. So I think I won't. It sounds like you've 'naturalised' with some tinted glasses.


You can start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_citys
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby simonn » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:20 am

iaintas wrote:Besides i totally disagree on Sydney being a world Class city, its overpopulated expensive yuppie infested sprawling city with an ugly building on the water. And as someone who has lived in both Melbourne and Sydney but does not originate from either im pretty impartial too. :D


World class cities are, pretty much by definition, overpopulated yuppie infested cities.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby iaintas » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:39 am

I guess it depends on your definition of world class?
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby kb » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:40 am

g-boaf wrote:I also want to know how you do 5km/h on a bicycle?

Compact crankset?
g-boaf wrote:Mine is extremely twitchy at such low speeds.

Ah... I always thought it was the cyclist who was twitchy at low speeds ;-)
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby skull » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:48 am

I would walk faster tgan 5km/h

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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby warthog1 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:02 am

London Boy wrote:
il padrone wrote:Melbourne might lay claim to being a world class cycling city, but many of our shared paths are an insult to cyclists.

I'm not aware that Melbourne is a world-class anything much.

It's a wannabe European city that can't cut it, but otherwise has nothing much to offer. You could compare it to Brisbane if you like, or Adelaide (oversized country towns) or to Perth (dormitory for the Pilbara). More sophisticated than those, but that doesn't exactly get you very far. They, at least, know where they fit in the world...

And Melbourne has a definite cringe, justifiably so, when compared with Sydney. Sydney is, of course, a world class city.

I can say that as someone who grew up understanding what non-Australians think of Australia and its cities, as well as being a naturalised Australian who understands how Australians see themselves.


Disagree that Sydney is anything special either.
Apart from that as someone who grew up in Melb I mostly agree.
IMO cities full stop aren't the best place to live. If you must the smaller the better. Less crowding and congestion.
For that reason I'll take Adelaide and Perth over the east coast slums. Darwin is a good size but too hot.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby simonn » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:26 am

warthog1 wrote:
London Boy wrote:
il padrone wrote:Melbourne might lay claim to being a world class cycling city, but many of our shared paths are an insult to cyclists.

I'm not aware that Melbourne is a world-class anything much.

It's a wannabe European city that can't cut it, but otherwise has nothing much to offer. You could compare it to Brisbane if you like, or Adelaide (oversized country towns) or to Perth (dormitory for the Pilbara). More sophisticated than those, but that doesn't exactly get you very far. They, at least, know where they fit in the world...

And Melbourne has a definite cringe, justifiably so, when compared with Sydney. Sydney is, of course, a world class city.

I can say that as someone who grew up understanding what non-Australians think of Australia and its cities, as well as being a naturalised Australian who understands how Australians see themselves.


Disagree that Sydney is anything special either.
Apart from that as someone who grew up in Melb I mostly agree.
IMO cities full stop aren't the best place to live. If you must the smaller the better. Less crowding and congestion.
For that reason I'll take Adelaide and Perth over the east coast slums. Darwin is a good size but too hot.


Don't get me wrong. World cities are based on metrics, not opinion (well... other than what the organization considers a valid metric).

Ideally I'd like to live in a small coastal town with a wide variety of people, a great set of restaurants, decent internet, which is great for cycling and I can get a decent job in my industry on a similar salary (and had my extended family around me) (and not Byron Bay<cartman/>). However, the decent job thing is the problem.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby rkelsen » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:09 pm

London Boy wrote:
il padrone wrote:Melbourne might lay claim to being a world class cycling city, but many of our shared paths are an insult to cyclists.

I'm not aware that Melbourne is a world-class anything much.

*cough*

:lol:
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby rkelsen » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:40 pm

il padrone wrote:
Bicycle Network Victoria spokesman Garry Brennan said Southbank promenade had a well-known "design failure'' because there was no alternative through route or defined path for bikes.

But he said cyclists should only go as fast as runners on shared paths.

Damn fool comment.

If he is talking about Southbank, then I agree. People ride too fast through there. Docklands too.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:02 pm

I get regularly passed by joggers on Southbank :(
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby iaintas » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:11 pm

Great way to secretly get rid of cyclist "lets build them a bike lane where they have to ride slower than walking pace, that will make them give up and just walk" 8)
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby Alistair » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:16 pm

I think the Hun's execution is poor (surprisingly...), but there is something in this. I ride down Southbank twice daily and it is extremely messy. I try to go fairly slowly and keep left of people and bikes, but many don't which makes us all look like arseholes.

There are hundreds of people using phones, tourists taking photos, kids running around etc, yet people still swerve around them at 25-30kph. The other fun issue is waves of traffic leaving the lights side-by-side at peak hour, and forming walls as much as four or five riders wide. This results in frequent incidents where people try to pass others doing the same thing in the opposite direction on the right... and things generally get chaotic and a bit lethal.

In practical terms Southbank isn't a 'shared path' as much as just a busy, shared space. It isn't productive to treat it like every other shared path in Melb. People need to just chill out and take it easy along there, as I see regular incidents along that short stretch that could easily be avoided.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby birdbrain » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:24 pm

warthog1 wrote:
Disagree that Sydney is anything special either.
Apart from that as someone who grew up in Melb I mostly agree.
IMO cities full stop aren't the best place to live. If you must the smaller the better. Less crowding and congestion.
For that reason I'll take Adelaide and Perth over the east coast slums. Darwin is a good size but too hot.



I hear Snowtown is the place to be.
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby casual_cyclist » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:33 pm

g-boaf wrote:
il padrone wrote:Damn fool comment. So we should all stick to 10kmh?? On all shared paths??

I just give up. People need to exercise common sense and caution. That means going at appropriate speeds. So in a clear area with nothing around, why not do 45km/h? I do. Sometimes even 50km/h, even 70km/h on a wide downhill stretch. And it was fine. But when it is narrow and there are pedestrians, 15-20km/h is okay. If it's very crowded, 10km/h or less is what I do.

This is what I do too. No traffic - open speed, the more traffic the more I slow down.
g-boaf wrote:I also want to know how you do 5km/h on a bicycle? Mine is extremely twitchy at such low speeds. No design fault, that's the way it is. It's designed for high speeds, not going extremely slow.

I commute on a touring bike with wide tyres so it is easy to me to do 5km/h. Sometimes the shared path in South Perth gets so congested that I need to. It doesn't bother me to ride at walking speed when necessary. appropriate speeds
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Re: Spamday Herald Sun

Postby biker jk » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:36 pm

I have cycled along Southbank and many riders are way too fast through a congested area. There are accidents waiting to happen. Still, I believe the infrastructure needs to be fixed rather than setting a ridiculously low speed limit which kills the route for commuters.

On the world's best city, see below. Choose your criteria. :)

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/sydney-is-worlds-second-best-city-poll/story-fn3dxiwe-1226738045069
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