UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

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UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby AUbicycles » Wed May 21, 2014 9:51 am

Exciting news - and an inevitable development.
(A word up front, you won't have to ride disc brakes if they are not your cup of tea).

Bike Europe wrote:AMSTERDAM, The Netherlands – The 2016 World Tour competition including the Tour de France, Giro and Vuelta will see the usage of UCI approved disc brakes. It is expected to boost road bike sales.Jeroen Snijders Blok (COO Accell Group), bicycle industry representative in WFSGI: ‘UCI approved disc brakes to come in 2016.’ Jeroen Snijders Blok (COO Accell Group), bicycle industry representative in WFSGI: ‘UCI approved disc brakes to come in 2016.’

One of the stakeholders involved in recent meetings with the newly formed UCI Equipment Commission, told Bike Europe on the expected approval in 2016. This was disclosed after a discussion started in The Netherlands in response to a publication by Bike Europe's sister magazine 'Tweewieler'. This publication, targeted to dealers in the Benelux markets, said that UCI approved disc brakes were to be expected already for 2015.
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Reactions on this report by tweewieler.nl said that it would not be in 2015, but much more likely to come in 2016 and even 2017.

Source: http://www.bike-eu.com/Industry-retail- ... yclesnetau


It means that brands who havn't already released a top-model disk brake bike need to get a move on because 2015 is just around the corner and a lot of the riders will be wanting to train on new bikes.

It could mean that if 2016 is the first year - then approved disk brake road bikes would make their first appearance at the Tour Down Under in Australia.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Xplora » Wed May 21, 2014 10:26 am

This will boost wind tunnel profits quite a bit LOL they take a 10-15% aero penalty with a disc brake housing, and given the extreme interest in aero lately, even putting front brakes behind the fork, I'm guessing there will be a lot of development to improve that.

I am making the call - Campagnolo will be the grumpy old retrogrouch refusing to do the road discs until 2018 :mrgreen:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed May 21, 2014 10:58 am

Yep, brakes that are so good they'll slow you down all the time.

I pity those having to make quick wheel changes in races. But for those that need long steep descent or wet weather braking performance on their carbon rims, it'll help.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby herzog » Wed May 21, 2014 11:10 am

For those not racing, these make a lot of sense. Whether for wet weather or the fact that you're not wearing out expensive rims every time you use the brakes.

One thing you notice switching between the Road bike and the MTB is that hydro brakes are a joy to use.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby GeoffInBrisbane » Wed May 21, 2014 11:31 am

Doesn't worry me a bit for normal road use (discs? Gimme!), but I'm still a bit concerned for the peloton in the event of a pile up with spinning discs and bodies flying in close proximity to each other. Legitimate concern or am I worrying over nothing?
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby RonK » Wed May 21, 2014 11:46 am

AUbicycles wrote:It means that brands who havn't already released a top-model disk brake bike need to get a move on because 2015 is just around the corner and a lot of the riders will be wanting to train on new bikes.

It could mean that if 2016 is the first year - then approved disk brake road bikes would make their first appearance at the Tour Down Under in Australia.


Team Managers however are not very interested.
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Ross » Wed May 21, 2014 11:51 am

GeoffInBrisbane wrote:Doesn't worry me a bit for normal road use (discs? Gimme!), but I'm still a bit concerned for the peloton in the event of a pile up with spinning discs and bodies flying in close proximity to each other. Legitimate concern or am I worrying over nothing?


I would be more concerned about spinning chainwheels and pedals and QR skewers and shifters and handlebars...

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby RonK » Wed May 21, 2014 11:56 am

Ross wrote:I would be more concerned about spinning chainwheels and pedals and QR skewers and shifters and handlebars...

Team Sky's technical director is concerned about crashes with discs.

Carsten Jeppesen, Team Sky’s head of technical operations, brought up another potential issue with disc brakes — pile-ups involving hot rotors.

“The disc gets warm and in crash could you protect the rotor somehow?" Jeppesen said. "You have to look at that because if it’s warm and sharp as a knife it’s dangerous."
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby high_tea » Wed May 21, 2014 12:03 pm

Wierd. AFAIK most people aren't made out of butter, so why worry whether the knife-like thing is warm or not?

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Xplora » Wed May 21, 2014 12:25 pm

www.rotorburn.com is one of the most popular MTB sites around, HT. I wonder why? :lol:

Ross, there are concerns about those things and we think coops managed to chop almost an inch deep into his knee tissues with a spoke :shock: the key issue is that pedals and handlebars and QR skewers and shifters aren't a clear and present danger. A disc on a bike can amputate at 10kmh, and it can cut like a knife without moving. Yes, the chainset is a risk, I don't think that's up for debate - but do we NEED to introduce more risk into the peloton? I am rather sceptical about the need. The interaction of braking is a bit of a drama as well; haven't done much descending for a while, but you don't want guys pulling up in half the distance as you. The peloton is a gracefully synchronised reptile gliding down the road; different braking powers could stuff that up.

Oh well, we'll see.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby mitchy_ » Wed May 21, 2014 12:40 pm

Xplora wrote:This will boost wind tunnel profits quite a bit LOL they take a 10-15% aero penalty with a disc brake housing, and given the extreme interest in aero lately, even putting front brakes behind the fork, I'm guessing there will be a lot of development to improve that.


do you have a reference? i keep seeing different figures being thrown around for drag caused by disc brakes. i think people are just making things up now...

GeoffInBrisbane wrote:Doesn't worry me a bit for normal road use (discs? Gimme!), but I'm still a bit concerned for the peloton in the event of a pile up with spinning discs and bodies flying in close proximity to each other. Legitimate concern or am I worrying over nothing?


Xplora wrote:Ross, there are concerns about those things and we think coops managed to chop almost an inch deep into his knee tissues with a spoke :shock: the key issue is that pedals and handlebars and QR skewers and shifters aren't a clear and present danger. A disc on a bike can amputate at 10kmh, and it can cut like a knife without moving. Yes, the chainset is a risk, I don't think that's up for debate - but do we NEED to introduce more risk into the peloton? I am rather sceptical about the need. The interaction of braking is a bit of a drama as well; haven't done much descending for a while, but you don't want guys pulling up in half the distance as you. The peloton is a gracefully synchronised reptile gliding down the road; different braking powers could stuff that up.

Oh well, we'll see.


as previously talked about on here. putting your hand/leg in just about any moving part of a bike is going to result in a nasty surprise. if you're going into the hub area, then you either have a) a disc brake to contend with, or b) a hub and spokes to fight. neither is going to be pretty.

for what it's worth, i removed a good portion of my index finger on what i thought was the brake rotor. turns out it was actually the spokes. lots of blood and stitches involved.
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Calvin27 » Wed May 21, 2014 1:07 pm

Can anyone find a response from UCI regarding all the supposed 'issues' they flagged with discs and how these have or plan to be addressed?

Otherwise smells to me like they were just being plain old dinosaurs.
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Xplora » Wed May 21, 2014 1:41 pm

Sorry Mitchy... it MIGHT have been SwissSide? Or Flo? Specialized if they don't give you luck. I have a feeling it was one of those first two. Basically "no way, we're competing on aero and disc brake hubs totally stuff that up". SS and Flo are basically fluid dynamics engineers that like riding, they don't focus on ceramic bearings or lubes, or hub design, or weight, they focus on the aerofoil and the article I recall gave that % drop. It's quite substantial, and it might not be an acceptable loss after all this investment in tube shaping and brake positioning. :idea:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby AUbicycles » Wed May 21, 2014 1:57 pm

Xplora wrote:A disc on a bike can amputate at 10kmh, and it can cut like a knife without moving. Yes, the chainset is a risk,

That's not serious. You have to have a look at mountain biking to see how many injuries there are from disc brakes. Where did you see stationary disc brakes cutting like a knife?

Xplora wrote:they take a 10-15% aero penalty with a disc brake housing,

Is there a reference for this? It is essentially saying that the advantage a rider gets from drafting will be almost lost because they have disc callipers front and back. I will keep an open mind but am interested in the data.


Xplora wrote:different braking powers could stuff that up.

I don't see this as an issue - dry conditions, standard caliper brakes should allow a cyclist to stop as soon as with discs, the discs however will require less force to apply the brakes. But discs can be modulated just like rim brakes - no difference and down to the riders to use the equipment properly.

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I pity those having to make quick wheel changes in races.

What's the issue changing wheels with standardised discs? Is it about aligning the disc in the calipers? I feel that this should be non-existent for experienced mechanics / team support. undoing and doing up the skewers is the biggest part of the wheelchange.

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UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby herzog » Wed May 21, 2014 2:03 pm

And so the FUD begins.

Amputations?!? For the love of god...

For the 99% of us who have to pay for our own wheels, and for whom 95+% of our riding time is not in a race, disc brakes are a better, safer system.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Ross » Wed May 21, 2014 2:22 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
Xplora wrote:A disc on a bike can amputate at 10kmh, and it can cut like a knife without moving. Yes, the chainset is a risk,

That's not serious. You have to have a look at mountain biking to see how many injuries there are from disc brakes. Where did you see stationary disc brakes cutting like a knife?



I don't think MTBers generally ride in a close "peleton' like road bike riders do but I do think talk of hot knives is being melodramatic.

I'm not sure that allowing disc or caliper brakes is a good idea due to the varying braking ability, but I guess they discuss this sort of thing with riders and they seem to think it ok.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Calvin27 » Wed May 21, 2014 2:22 pm

The different braking power is the worst excuse I've ever heard.

Pretty much what it is saying is: 'There is a better, more effective braking solution, but we won't implement it because it will mean the old brakes can't keep up'. Are you serious? The technology is available to all! If teams want to use an inferior system at the penalty of performance, well they are not a very good team then are they?

Wheelset compatibility is an overrated issue. Maybe an issue for the consumer but if a race team can't standardise their kit, or at least provide support for 2-3 alternatives, then once again pretty useless. As for disc clearances, if you're using the same hubs and frame tolerances are good then there is not much margin for error.
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Xplora » Wed May 21, 2014 2:57 pm

The interaction of rim and disc is a problem if the rider at the back isn't able to brake at the same rate as the first. In any emergency situation, the disc brake might pull up but be rammed by the rider behind. The peloton is an abnormal situation - it is illegal to tailgate on a public road, and you're basically tailgating 100 guys in a bunch. The room for error becomes an issue when you have a bunch of 100 riders together. That's the problem we're talking about. It's not a commute in the rain :idea:

I've looked for that quote and stuffed if I could find it.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby biker jk » Wed May 21, 2014 3:13 pm

A rather hopeful assessment by an industry insider who stands to benefit from increased sales of new bikes with disc brakes. There's no certainty the UCI will approve disc brakes in 2016. The pro teams will need to be convinced and this may take a very long time indeed.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Red Rider » Wed May 21, 2014 3:21 pm

The ~10% aero penalty was mentioned by SwissSide recently in answer to one of the questions here about the the possible development of a disc brake wheel. I think this may have only been relative to the wheel, not the whole wheel with bike and rider package, which would make the aero penalty of the brakes a small fraction of the overall.

The aero performance of disc brakes are obviously more affected by wind direction than rim brakes. I believe it also puts more force on the spokes, generally requiring more?

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby bychosis » Wed May 21, 2014 3:30 pm

Xplora wrote:The interaction of rim and disc is a problem if the rider at the back isn't able to brake at the same rate as the first. In any emergency situation, the disc brake might pull up but be rammed by the rider behind. The peloton is an abnormal situation - it is illegal to tailgate on a public road, and you're basically tailgating 100 guys in a bunch. The room for error becomes an issue when you have a bunch of 100 riders together. That's the problem we're talking about. It's not a commute in the rain :idea:

I've looked for that quote and stuffed if I could find it.


I don't really see how different the braking effect can be between discs and rims under normal circumstances. You brake hard enough to lift the rear wheel a bit without locking the front. Discs don't change tyre grip, they do change the effort required on the lever. Pro riders are going to be so used to braking based on tyre grip that it shouldnt matter what system they use other than adapting to slightly different brake lever pressure.

I love my MTB disc brakes, but my v-brakes stopped me just as well until mud and water came into play. I'd love to have discs on a roadie for those wet weather rides, but in the dry I'm not sure how much difference there would be.
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Xplora » Wed May 21, 2014 3:48 pm

Cheers Red. Still no link though :lol:

bycho, on a wet descent at 50kmh this interaction might become far more relevant. Remember that there is a difference between slowing quickly and emergency stopping on a bike - you don't necessarily lift the rear trying to slow down, but there is substantially different response between the disc and a carbon rim brake track. I have trouble with wet alu rims at 25kmh on a 3-5% decline near my place.

I'm not saying "haw haw, no chance of discs" with any of this - just providing some alternative views which are clearly ignored every time someone says "surely you'd want better braking" but bunch riding requires very unusual problems to be resolved which don't happen even for other kinds of road biking. Stopping isn't the only thing you need - avoiding your pals in front and behind is just as important.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Calvin27 » Wed May 21, 2014 3:51 pm

Xplora wrote:Cheers Red. Still no link though :lol:

bycho, on a wet descent at 50kmh this interaction might become far more relevant. Remember that there is a difference between slowing quickly and emergency stopping on a bike - you don't necessarily lift the rear trying to slow down, but there is substantially different response between the disc and a carbon rim brake track. I have trouble with wet alu rims at 25kmh on a 3-5% decline near my place.

I'm not saying "haw haw, no chance of discs" with any of this - just providing some alternative views which are clearly ignored every time someone says "surely you'd want better braking" but bunch riding requires very unusual problems to be resolved which don't happen even for other kinds of road biking. Stopping isn't the only thing you need - avoiding your pals in front and behind is just as important.


Please quit with this interaction business. Sure the first competition some riders will rear end. Then they will learn the errors of their ways and understand how much better discs are. Why should advancement be halted because some luddites refuse to adopt better tech?
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed May 21, 2014 4:02 pm

AUbicycles wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I pity those having to make quick wheel changes in races.

What's the issue changing wheels with standardised discs? Is it about aligning the disc in the calipers? I feel that this should be non-existent for experienced mechanics / team support. undoing and doing up the skewers is the biggest part of the wheelchange.

So you are in a break with neutral spares (car or motorbike) following and have a puncture. Sorry mate, don't have a wheel compatible with your disk set up, you'll have to wait for team car. Race over.

Even if team car is there, one touch of the brake lever with wheel out and the time to change and ensure alignment is not an insignificant concern when the race is flying down the road. Standard wheel changes take seconds with no such concerns.


As for aero, one wind tunnel test of standard rim v disk brake set up was run at San Diego LSWT by a bike company that uses disk brakes on their bikes. Over the range of yaw angles the additional drag was ~ 120 grams more for the bike with the disk brake, and significantly more with drive side yaw angles.

That's a horrible amount of extra drag to add for a rider seeking to win a sprint or stay in a breakaway, or simply to use less energy over the course of a 6-hour bike race. That equates to over a second per kilometre time penalty for same power, or adds ~ 12W to the power demand for same speed. Ouch. For an elite rider, that's the sort of gain they might spend thousands of dollars and a day of testing in tunnel to find, only to give it back in a hurry. And this is comparison to standard rim brakes, not aero brake set ups.

In a close sprint, it will cost wins.

Neverthless, pros will eventually ride them because they will be required to by sponsors, not because they are the best choices. That's been going on forever.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby simonn » Wed May 21, 2014 4:16 pm

bychosis wrote:I'd love to have discs on a roadie for those wet weather rides, but in the dry I'm not sure how much difference there would be.


From my experience on my disc cx, none. Most serious riders I know only train in the dry, if it's raining the hop on a trainer.

Discs are great for commuting. Then again, new toys.

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