Tubulars for racing.

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Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:12 pm

On the coarse asphalt country roads!

What do people recommend.

So far the internet had produced lots of rumours and no facts!

Veloflex, good but wear super quick.
Schwalbe, average, some reporting more punctures than other brands.
Vittoria, good but so many types I am a little lost!
Continental, bit of love/hate going on here so not sure!
Bontrager, rebranded Vittorias?
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by BNA » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:46 pm

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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:46 pm

Coarse asphalt is the best surface to highlight the difference between good tubulars and clinchers. I love it when you can float along next to someone getting vibrated to bits.

A little depends on your puncture profile. If you can usually wear your tyres down to the cords, then you can afford to give away some puncture resistance for performance.

Wear is not a consideration for pure race tyres, where performance is what matters.

As wide as you have clearance for would be best on a course road.

Some ideas probably in a rough price order too.

FMB/Dugast
Veloflex Carbon
Vittoria Pave
Schwalbe Parigi Roubaix, Strada Bianca
Continental Competition

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:16 pm

Thanks for the reply Cameron.

I wasn't sure where to buy FMB or Dugast.

You can only run 23mm without rubbing under out of the saddle efforts apparently.

I run my clinchers down until they start to cut up then change them as I don't want to risk getting a flat, but I've done 4500km this year so far without one.

What about the new Schwalbe One?
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby march83 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:51 pm

dugast: http://www.a-dugast.com/index.php?page= ... 1&Itemid=1
fmb (and many others): http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mm5/mer ... ode=TWFGS9

if you want to save a bit of cash, the vittoria corsa cx is cheap at wiggle at the moment : http://www.wiggle.com.au/vittoria-corsa ... ular-tyre/

might be ok if you're a featherweight?
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:06 pm

march83 wrote:dugast: http://www.a-dugast.com/index.php?page= ... 1&Itemid=1
fmb (and many others): http://www.worldclasscycles.com/mm5/mer ... ode=TWFGS9

if you want to save a bit of cash, the vittoria corsa cx is cheap at wiggle at the moment : http://www.wiggle.com.au/vittoria-corsa ... ular-tyre/

might be ok if you're a featherweight?


Checking out the Dugast website now, shame they don't have an Australian distributor.

78kg at the moment and very unlikely I'll be getting any thinner.

Max power at the moment is about 1200w and 300w for an hour.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:44 am

Tubulars vary quite a bit,

Vittorias sc evos are a nice feel but I have dropped them as I have found they are prone to failure around the valve stem. They also have that awkward valve extension. Here in Perth they don't like our sharp sand.

I like the veloflex, if you can fit on the 25s they can give a soft ride on the harsh stuff and are beautiful to fit.

Continentals are horrible to fit, but are durable, plus you have to run the pressures lower to get a smooth ride. So I would not pick these for your application.

Challenge are also supposed to be good but I haven't tried.

My recommendatiom is veloflex in 23 and 25, but they are pricey.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby jacks1071 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:52 pm

Veloflex are the best quality tubulars I've come across.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby toolonglegs » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:40 am

I love veloflex clinchers, also love veloflex tubs while they are inflated... But my confidence was knocked when one was totally destroyed in a wet race, next outing a front blew for no reason leaving me hiding behind a car at 60kmph for 30kms just to get back on. The next day a rear blew and I didn't get back on... So to be honest I went off them really quickly... Bought a set of Michelin Prorace 4 tubs... But still haven't got round to mounting them :oops:
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:00 pm

Looks like Veloflex it is!
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Postby Causidicus » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:48 pm

softy wrote:Vittorias sc evos are a nice feel but I have dropped them as I have found they are prone to failure around the valve stem. They also have that awkward valve extension.

Never had a failure near the valve stem and I use a lot of them, both for me and the teams I glue up for. Your report is the first I've ever read of it. Sounds more like a user issue than a tyre issue. Further, the new SCs and CXs have a traditional fixed 40mm smooth stem with RVC. The red valve system has been dropped (not that it was in any way bad). At around $50 a tyre, the new Vittoria CX (SC with black sidewall and optional colour strips) eats Veloflex for breakfast in the value stakes. At close to double the price per tyre, Veloflex are poor value and barely any better than the Vittoria (340tpi v 320tpi).

The SC and CX have same tread strip as FMB. Not surprising as FMB buy their tread strips from Vittoria. I don't know where Dugast get their tread strips from but a betting man would say Vittoria.

Unless you want a silk casing (which eats any cotton casing for breakfast in ride quality), the ride quality/quality/value point is Vittoria. Buying Veloflex is pointless unless punctures are irrelevant and the attendant tyre change is irrelevant (in which case buy silk FMB or Dugast). I'm not saying that Vittoria is more puncture resistant. Simply that when you puncture a Veloflex you have the same work in front of you as a Vittoria and the Vittoria is basically half the price.
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Re:

Postby softy » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:17 pm

Causidicus wrote:
softy wrote:Vittorias sc evos are a nice feel but I have dropped them as I have found they are prone to failure around the valve stem. They also have that awkward valve extension.

Never had a failure near the valve stem and I use a lot of them, both for me and the teams I glue up for. Your report is the first I've ever read of it. Sounds more like a user issue than a tyre issue. Further, the new SCs and CXs have a traditional fixed 40mm smooth stem with RVC. The red valve system has been dropped (not that it was in any way bad). At around $50 a tyre, the new Vittoria CX (SC with black sidewall and optional colour strips) eats Veloflex for breakfast in the value stakes. At close to double the price per tyre, Veloflex are poor value and barely any better than the Vittoria (340tpi v 320tpi).

The SC and CX have same tread strip as FMB. Not surprising as FMB buy their tread strips from Vittoria. I don't know where Dugast get their tread strips from but a betting man would say Vittoria.

Unless you want a silk casing (which eats any cotton casing for breakfast in ride quality), the ride quality/quality/value point is Vittoria. Buying Veloflex is pointless unless punctures are irrelevant and the attendant tyre change is irrelevant (in which case buy silk FMB or Dugast). I'm not saying that Vittoria is more puncture resistant. Simply that when you puncture a Veloflex you have the same work in front of you as a Vittoria and the Vittoria is basically half the price.
Causidicus wrote:
softy wrote:Vittorias sc evos are a nice feel but I have dropped them as I have found they are prone to failure around the valve stem. They also have that awkward valve extension.

Never had a failure near the valve stem and I use a lot of them, both for me and the teams I glue up for. Your report is the first I've ever read of it. Sounds more like a user issue than a tyre issue. Further, the new SCs and CXs have a traditional fixed 40mm smooth stem with RVC. The red valve system has been dropped (not that it was in any way bad). At around $50 a tyre, the new Vittoria CX (SC with black sidewall and optional colour swtrips) eats Veloflex for breakfast in the value stakes. At close to double the price per tyre, Veloflex are poor value and barely any better than the Vittoria (340tpi v 320tpi).

The SC and CX have same tread strip as FMB. Not surprising as FMB buy their tread strips from Vittoria. I don't know where Dugast get their tread strips from but a betting man would say Vittoria.

Unless you want a silk casing (which eats any cotton casing for breakfast in ride quality), the ride quality/quality/value point is Vittoria. Buying Veloflex is pointless unless punctures are irrelevant and the attendant tyre change is irrelevant (in which case buy silk FMB or Dugast). I'm not saying that Vittoria is more puncture resistant. Simply that when you puncture a Veloflex you have the same work in front of you as a Vittoria and the Vittoria is basically half the price.


I have to admit I haven't tried the the new vittoria ones with the normal valve. The red valves with the screw at the base are a pain if you want to put sealant in with it mounted or on the side of the road. I have tried the clincher and tubular vittoria and here in perth the sharp sand sticks to the rubber compound and eventually beds itself in and punctures. I have tried many vittorias as the price is nice, but alas they just fail to quickly.
The tube is ultra thin, as I opened one up. The place wear the valve is, is a weak point (on other forums this has been noted as a problem) I ride regularly and have to inflate the latex tubes daily or every other day. I do believe the constant fitting of the pump fatigues the latex.
I have tried other tyres and are not as fragile as vittorias.
All to their own, but I tried quite a few in clincher and tubular, and not impressed. I may give them another look, now they have a new valve arrangement.

How do you tell the difference between the old and new ones?
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Re: Re:

Postby Causidicus » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:41 pm

softy wrote:The red valves with the screw at the base are a pain if you want to put sealant in with it mounted or on the side of the road.
Most people I know that will use sealant carry a separate stem to screw on if they want it put sealant in, regardless of the tyre brand. The same effort is required if removing a valve core. That said, most people I know abhor sealant.
I have tried the clincher and tubular vittoria and here in perth the sharp sand sticks to the rubber compound and eventually beds itself in and punctures. I have tried many vittorias as the price is nice, but alas they just fail to[o] quickly.
Never known sand to cause a puncture, even with CX people.
The tube is ultra thin, as I opened one up.
It's the same as any other latex tube.
The place wear the valve is, is a weak point (on other forums this has been noted as a problem)
Link, please.
I ride regularly and have to inflate the latex tubes daily or every other day.
Twice daily for me and exactly zero issues.
How do you tell the difference between the old and new ones?
One has a red valve stem and the other doesn't. Pretty simple.

As further clarification, the older ones are called Evo Corsa SC/CX. Vittoria has dropped the 'Evo' label and now they are Corsa SC/CX. All the new models do not have the 'Evo' label and have the 'traditional' stem with RVC.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:31 pm

Hi causidicus,

I'm not denying they are good tyres, I would of loved for them to be the ducks guts for me. As you say the price is good and they ride beautiful with lots of grip.

I really persevered with them, clincher / tubular they were just puncture prone for me.

I had a couple go on the valve stem but mostly just tiny punctures.

I don't know if you have been to Perth, but we don't have soil here, just sand. Yellow sand, white sand, dirty sand, but no soil. The sand is like sharp grit, or similar to small pieces of glass but not quite as sharp, I do believe the rubber on the vittoria is tacky and picks up the grit, it goes round and round till it embeds in the tyre. It's always a tiny puncture that results. The last one I had was in my vittoria clichers. That was it, the last straw, off they came, they are still sitting in the corner of my garage.

I put a veloflex on and it has already lasted twice as long as the vittorias, conti competitions last here very well but don't give the same nice ride and are very difficult to mount on the rim.

I just had to give up on them. :(
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:35 pm

Well my wheels are here, cassette, skewers, valve extenders are in the post.

No tyres yet, and as another thread said, there seems to be a country wide shortage of Vittoria Mastik!

Might have to give one of the other glues a try, watched the Zipp instruction video, seems an easy enough job spread out over a week. Curing might take a while now it's going cold, less than 15c in the day and freezing at night.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Thoglette » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:09 pm

march83 wrote:if you want to save a bit of cash


Then get the Yellow Jersey three-for-fifty tubs.

They are definitely much rounder and much more pleasant than the cheapies from Vittoria and Continental.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:46 am

Thoglette wrote:
march83 wrote:if you want to save a bit of cash


Then get the Yellow Jersey three-for-fifty tubs.

They are definitely much rounder and much more pleasant than the cheapies from Vittoria and Continental.

To bad they only come in an overly skinny 21.5mm. At least the Vittoria Rally's come in a 25mm. A better proposition for coarse chip bitumen and dirt roads IMO.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby softy » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:01 pm

Thoglette wrote:
march83 wrote:if you want to save a bit of cash


Then get the Yellow Jersey three-for-fifty tubs.

They are definitely much rounder and much more pleasant than the cheapies from Vittoria and Continental.



Trying them now to see what they are like. Look good and have removable valves. Will get back with a report once got a few ks on them.

I was under the impression they are 23mm, do look bigger than 21.5mm

Just to clarify 3 for $50 USDs + postage
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Postby Causidicus » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:07 pm

Thoglette wrote:...get the Yellow Jersey three-for-fifty tubs.

They are definitely much rounder and much more pleasant than the cheapies from Vittoria...

They are made by Vittoria, just like the D'Allesandro were. Simply rebranded. Vittoria make a hell of a lot of tyres that get rebranded and also sell rubber tread strips to a lot of manufacturers. I guess it helps when you own the Lion Tyres (Thailand) Co., Ltd factory...
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:20 pm

Causidicus wrote:
Thoglette wrote:...get the Yellow Jersey three-for-fifty tubs.

They are definitely much rounder and much more pleasant than the cheapies from Vittoria...

They are made by Vittoria, just like the D'Allesandro were. Simply rebranded. Vittoria make a hell of a lot of tyres that get rebranded and also sell rubber tread strips to a lot of manufacturers. I guess it helps when you own the Lion Tyres (Thailand) Co., Ltd factory...
which begs the question as to why the rally's, which are a similar price, are so inconsistent in their shape.
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Postby Causidicus » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:42 pm

Never found Rally to be inconsistent but having said that, don't see them very often as most people only carry them as a ride home spare. I guess it comes down to what you think is inconsistent. Rallys that I've seen aren't really inconsistent at all but some people might think they are if they are used to machine manufactured tyres. Try and find a laser straight tread strip or millimetre perfect carcass on any hand made FMB, Dugast, Veloflex, Vittoria or Challenge. Simply doesn't happen, and simply doesn't matter.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby Tarquin » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:00 pm

Ah well, I procrastinated for ages, as I hadn't completed my order wiggle sent me an $8 voucher when I spent more than $90 so I went with the Vittorias above and Continental Cement as couldn't find Mastik anywhere.

Left it a little late since my powertap training wheel crapped itself tonight so I have no spare, but that's for another thread!
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Re:

Postby softy » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:34 pm

Causidicus wrote:
Thoglette wrote:...get the Yellow Jersey three-for-fifty tubs.

They are definitely much rounder and much more pleasant than the cheapies from Vittoria...

They are made by Vittoria, just like the D'Allesandro were. Simply rebranded. Vittoria make a hell of a lot of tyres that get rebranded and also sell rubber tread strips to a lot of manufacturers. I guess it helps when you own the Lion Tyres (Thailand) Co., Ltd factory...


Well if they are rebranded, YJ can do them very cheap, they have butyl tubes and removable valves. So going to give them a try.
So do you know if they are the rallies rebranded? As I was under the impression rallies don't have removable valves.
They also have a bigger base tape than the vittoria sc evos. You can see it when mounted, which does detract from the looks
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Postby Causidicus » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:41 pm

Spec might change from order to order, i.e. wider base tape, butyl or latex inner, RVC or fixed; but they come out of Vittoria's factory.
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Re: Tubulars for racing.

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:24 pm

Causidicus wrote:Never found Rally to be inconsistent but having said that, don't see them very often as most people only carry them as a ride home spare. I guess it comes down to what you think is inconsistent. Rallys that I've seen aren't really inconsistent at all but some people might think they are if they are used to machine manufactured tyres. Try and find a laser straight tread strip or millimetre perfect carcass on any hand made FMB, Dugast, Veloflex, Vittoria or Challenge. Simply doesn't happen, and simply doesn't matter.

The tread on the Challenge tyres I have used are infinitely straighter then any Rally's. Not knocking the Rally's. I think they are good tyre for the money they just never seem to be straight.
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Postby Causidicus » Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:04 pm

...and I've seen a few Rally that were straighter than the Challenges last seen here. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. They just need be straight enough.
Last edited by Causidicus on Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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