Diet Thread

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:04 pm

Telling people about all the things that their eating is doing to them doesn't seem to make much difference and apart from the the health issues raised there's the "do you want to be around to enjoy your grandchildren?". It seems that food addiction is simply too strong.

I too would never get an operation to fix my eating, thank goodness I have sufficient control to avoid that situation.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:18 pm

march83 wrote:...but she scoffs at the suggestion with pithy comebacks...a knee replacement will magically fix everything...affront to her cultural heritage...

A variety of excuses at play. I think the addicted part of her brain is talking. Especially the knee replacement excuse. Anyone who knows someone who's had a knee replacement should know it's involved, complicated, extremely painful initially and has a fairly long recovery time.
Oh well, you tried to warn her. When it get really bad towards the end of her life, she won't be able to claim that she didn't know. She'll then have to face her choices and wholly rely on the medical system to bail her out, like the majority. Not something I could easily live with, which is why I'm making the choices I make now. If it still goes badly pear shaped, well at least I tried.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:25 am

Some articles I found of interest in the Financial Express:

Carcinogen acrylamide found in coffee from processing.
“While plaintiff offered evidence that consumption of coffee increases the risk of harm to the fetus, to infants, to children and to adults, defendants’ medical and epidemiology experts testified that they had no opinion on causation,” Berle wrote in his proposed ruling. “Defendants failed to satisfy their burden of proving … that consumption of coffee confers a benefit to human health.”

https://www.financialexpress.com/lifestyle/health/coffee-good-or-bad-california-judge-rules-that-one-of-worlds-favourite-drink-requires-cancer-warning/1115901/
Also IMO some examples of addictive behaviour in there like:
“I just don’t think it would stop me,” said Jen Bitterman, a digital marketing technologist. “I love the taste, I love the ritual, I love the high, the energy, and I think I’m addicted to it.”


NAFLD from meat consumption.
Increased consumption of red or processed meat may increase the risk of developing non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), researchers have found. “NAFLD is considered as the hepatic component of the metabolic syndrome, with insulin resistance and inflammation as key factors in its pathophysiology,” said lead author Shira Zelber-Sagi, Professor at the University of Haifa in Israel.

https://www.financialexpress.com/lifestyle/health/meat-lover-high-intake-may-damage-this-organ/1106175/

Meat vs nuts for heart disease.
The study, appearing in the International Journal of Epidemiology, found that people who consumed large amounts of meat protein experienced a 60 per cent increase in cardiovascular disease (CVD), while people who consumed large amounts of protein from nuts and seeds experienced a 40-per cent reduction in CVD.

https://www.financialexpress.com/lifestyle/health/protein-from-nuts-seeds-could-be-good-for-your-heart/1121402/

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:14 pm

A look through Science Daily:

Just one high-fat meal sets the perfect stage for heart disease
Just four hours after consuming a milkshake made with whole milk, heavy whipping cream and ice cream, healthy young men also had blood vessels less able to relax and an immune response similar to one provoked by an infection, the team of Medical College of Georgia scientists report in the journal Laboratory Investigation.

While the dramatic, unhealthy shift was likely temporary in these healthy individuals, the scientists say there is a definite cumulative toll from this type of eating, and that their study could help explain isolated reports of death and/or heart attack right after eating a super-high fat meal.

This one was no surprise, but still interesting to see that even red blood cells change.


The Ecological approach to improving human health
"Western doctors generally ignore diet in chronic disease, even diseases of the gut," said Orr, inspired to do this research in part by his own health challenges. "They do not overly encourage or support their patients to change their diet away from high fat and high sugar. Industry and policy have created a platform for people to eat terribly in this country, and many Americans do eat terribly."


Link between gut microbiome and artery hardening discovered
So our results reveal the first observation in humans linking the gut microbes and their products to lower arterial stiffness. It is possible that the gut bacteria can be used to detect risk of heart


New strategies needed to help healthcare providers gain knowledge to counsel patients on diet
"Despite evidence that physicians are willing to help educate patients about healthy eating and are viewed as credible sources of diet information, they engage patients in diet counselling at less-than-desirable rates and cite insufficient knowledge and training as barriers, even during their peak learning years,"

A common point of discussion in these threads.


Raw fruit and vegetables provide better mental health outcomes
* The top 10 raw foods related to better mental health were: carrots, bananas, apples, dark leafy greens such as spinach, grapefruit, lettuce, citrus fruits, fresh berries, cucumber, and kiwifruit.


Pasta can be part of a healthy diet without packing on the pounds
"The study found that pasta didn't contribute to weight gain or increase in body fat," said lead author Dr. John Sievenpiper, a clinician scientist with the hospital's Clinical Nutrition and Risk Modification Centre. "In fact analysis actually showed a small weight loss. So contrary to concerns, perhaps pasta can be part of a healthy diet such as a low GI diet."

This study is at least partly sponsored by a pasta company. So I wouldn't post this if I had not heard this before. I've also had no noticeable weight gain eating wholemeal pasta before. Having said that, there are better ways to eat whole grains.


Eating more protein may not benefit older men
The team found that protein intake greater than the RDA had no significant effect on lean body mass, fat mass, muscle performance, physical function, fatigue or other well-being measures.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:11 pm

Nobody wrote:A look through Science Daily:

Just one high-fat meal sets the perfect stage for heart disease
Just four hours after consuming a milkshake made with whole milk, heavy whipping cream and ice cream, healthy young men also had blood vessels less able to relax and an immune response similar to one provoked by an infection, the team of Medical College of Georgia scientists report in the journal Laboratory Investigation.

While the dramatic, unhealthy shift was likely temporary in these healthy individuals, the scientists say there is a definite cumulative toll from this type of eating, and that their study could help explain isolated reports of death and/or heart attack right after eating a super-high fat meal.

This one was no surprise, but still interesting to see that even red blood cells change.


What is more surprising the researchers didn't look at blood glucose. They would have seen a spike from the milk and then an even larger spike from the ice cream which is laden with sugar.
Milk converts to blood glucose, ice cream converts to blood glucose and has other bad stuff in it which sees the fats then stored.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:40 pm

Baalzamon wrote:What is more surprising the researchers didn't look at blood glucose. They would have seen a spike from the milk and then an even larger spike from the ice cream which is laden with sugar.
Milk converts to blood glucose, ice cream converts to blood glucose and has other bad stuff in it which sees the fats then stored.

From the article:
While none of the scientists recommend going overboard on calories and sugar either, the healthy males in the study who instead consumed a meal with the same number of calories but no fat -- three big bowls of sugar-coated flakes with no-fat milk -- did not experience the same harmful changes to their blood, red blood cells and blood vessels.

Since the low fat meal didn't appear to be a problem, can I assume you are saying the combination of fat and milk sugar, sugar etc, is bad? If that is the case, then that is how the general population of most of the western world eats these days. So in the context that applies to the majority of the population, that kind of high fat food/meal is bad for you. I trust that there's a good chance you may be able to find a study which shows a true keto diet to be beneficial for arterial health. But if so, that only really applies to about 1% of the population.

By the way, did you get your blood markers sorted out? Last I saw of it was here. My latest are:
TC 3.4, Trig 1.1, HDL 0.9, LDL 2.0, BG 4.3, hsCRP 0.5.
It's pretty clear that my LDL is always going to be high for the diet I eat. I probably tend toward hypercholesterolemia.

As an aside, the whole concept of "no-fat milk" is strange since standard milk is 48% fat by Cal. It must look like white-ish water. It's like making no-fat peanut butter.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:28 pm

I drink too much coffee. While not high on my radar I have made a small shift of not buying a coffee as a matter of routine. One small step in the path of self improvement, many to go...
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:43 pm

mikesbytes wrote:One small step in the path of self improvement, many to go...

That's what it takes. Lots of small steps strung together until one day you look back and go, whoa, that's a long way.
I'm still doing a lot of small adjustments. No point mentioning them until they yield results (or not) as too much information.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:37 am

Had a good chat with Australia's most experienced and authoritative vegan dietitian http://humanherbivore.com/ last night. I was interested in her view on gastric bands/sleeves and bypasses.

In short, she stays away from them, sharing the view that this cohort :
- are generally very poor candidates to change a lifetime of poor nutritional habits, that invariably includes a strong repulsion to vegetables.
- are better left under the 'ownership' of the surgeons re dietary counseling, and accordingly subjected to a life time of expense buying the surgeon's recommended high margin nutritional supplements.

Other topics of interest Amanda shared were the growing number of consults she is having with WFPB people who are suffering from various forms of nutrient deficiency. Amanda is especially focusing on pediatrics. Many don't know that women who conceive with low levels of vitamin B12 are at a similar risk of having children with neural tube defects (similar to low folate). She also thinks iodine deficiency is a real risk in many areas of Australia, contrary to the general clinical practises of Australian dietitians. And iodine deficiency causes cognitive decline or retardation.

Amanda has been a strict vegan for almost 40 years, and is very pragmatic and balanced in her outlook I find. She recognizes the cult like conviction many vegans and WFPB people fall into, and is trying to be a moderating and science rooted voice against. I will be catching up with her again in the future. If BNAer's have questions you'd like to pose her, you could try emailing her via the website,
or present the questions here for me to ask when I next see her.
She runs a clinic in Brisbane and is due to start a Ph.D shortly.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:56 am

CKinnard wrote:Had a good chat with Australia's most experienced and authoritative vegan dietitian http://humanherbivore.com/ last night. I was interested in her view on gastric bands/sleeves and bypasses...

As you said in a previous post above, the battle is mainly a mental one. That is the best place an individual to fight the battle of obesity. Ridding oneself of the world's illusion of knowledge when it comes to diet and changing to WFPB are just some steps along the way. Gaining some mental fortitude a small step at a time. Changing habits/patterns. Changing associations/friends if necessary, or at least the type of time one spends with their influence. Changing the local environment. Getting some exercise. All practical steps in a lifestyle change.

CKinnard wrote:Other topics of interest Amanda shared were the growing number of consults she is having with WFPB people who are suffering from various forms of nutrient deficiency... She recognizes the cult like conviction many vegans and WFPB people fall into, and is trying to be a moderating and science rooted voice against.

I fell into this hole, but I'm now slowly digging my way out. Although Cronometer says I'm getting everything I need when adjusted to WHO RDIs, I'm now supplementing B12, calcium, zinc, iodine, DHA, Brazil nuts for selenium and linseed for ALA. The calcium and zinc are mainly for haemo, but they shouldn't hurt in small enough doses taken with food. That is why I got the calcium in powdered form. I'm far enough south in Sydney to be looking at vit-D supplementation too. Unlike most people, I have enough daylight free time to get enough sun. So far the bill for the supplementation is about $1.50 per day including the nuts and linseed. I can think of worse ways to spend my money.

CKinnard wrote:I will be catching up with her again in the future. If BNAer's have questions you'd like to pose her, you could try emailing her via the website, or present the questions here for me to ask when I next see her.

Probably better for people to ask you on here. Not only should it be less load on her for only one person to be asking, but everyone gets the posted answers.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:56 am

CKinnard wrote:iodine deficiency


I did a personal experiment a few months back because I was somewhat concerned about this too. My iodine intake without supplementation was almost nothing. I was eating miso with seaweed from time to time, but not super-regularly. My supplement contained 150mg but then I switched to a new one which didn't have any iodine so I bought a separate 1000mg tab which i took daily. This dose is well above the RDI, but well below the average intake in populations who are more exposed to seafood, sea vegetables and food grown iodine rich soils like japan.

Over 6 weeks I just put on weight, saw no real change in appetite or energy levels, but I just watched the scales go up. I had a day of migraine and a day of neck pain somewhere toward the end so I decided to stop. I think a good proportion of the weight was water weight which i stored around my belly, but it still took a solid 6 week cut to undo the damage.

There are less than reliable sources that claim that there is a significant phase of water gain due to the wash out of accumulated heavy metals in the thyroid but I don't know how true this is. I'm dubious. I personally think the high dose of iodine was beginning to cause some hypothyroidism and slowing my metabolism enough that I gained some weight.

Now, I have no desire to return to supplementing iodine, I just don't think there's enough data on it. If i were to try the experiment again I would have gotten T3 and T4 done afterwards, but I just didn't have the time to get to a doctor. I feel like there are these and more metrics that could be measured with some co-operation from a friendly doctor, but I just didn't have the time or opportunity to set something like this up.

Going forward, I'm just drinking miso with seaweed more regularly, taking a supplement with 150mg iodine in it and adding dulse flakes to a few meals a week.


cult


I think there is some expectation that veganism represents something perfect simply because of it's wholesome definition. It's not. There are many that thrive on it without trying, but there are plenty that don't and fail, and then others like myself and nobody who need to very carefully shape the diet in order to get the most from it.

My partner is still suffering from hairloss and fatigue which we've decided is stress related and diet related. She spent 6 weeks religiously following Dr Greiger's daily dozen and supplementing with a general multi, zinc and her iron supplement (she's got thalassemia minor). None of this really helped. Since then she's started eating fish and small amounts of cheese from time to time and claims her stress levels are down and that her energy levels are up. There is less hair in the shower. I personally think she has absorption issues which are exacerbated by stress. I've pushed her to eat more of the calorie dense foods like tempeh and tofu, get more fat from ground flax, pepitas and avocados, plus cook more of her veggies. She tends to eat 1 meal a day which probably doesn't help.

So from the cult side, I'm disappointed that she's eating animal products, but at the same time I want her to be healthy and happy, so it's tough...
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:47 pm

march83 wrote:
CKinnard wrote:iodine deficiency
...so I bought a separate 1000mg tab which i took daily. This dose is well above the RDI, but well below the average intake in populations who are more exposed to seafood, sea vegetables and food grown iodine rich soils like japan.

The upper limit in the AU NRV is 1100ug. So I'd suggest you were overdosing or very close to it, since you would have been getting something from your food. The correct level is a pretty small window and although I can't remember the video I saw (it might have been Mic. The Vegan) he said overdosing is just as likely as deficiency to cause thyroid issues. I'm taking 225 ug and think that's pretty high considering I'm getting something from food. Of the supplements I take, only B12 and DHA appear to have had any effect over the long term so far.

march83 wrote:I think there is some expectation that veganism represents something perfect simply because of it's wholesome definition. It's not. There are many that thrive on it without trying, but there are plenty that don't and fail, and then others like myself and nobody who need to very carefully shape the diet in order to get the most from it.

Agree. That's why I've been leaning toward the dieticians and away from the "sugar coated" messages.

march83 wrote:I personally think she has absorption issues which are exacerbated by stress. I've pushed her to eat more of the calorie dense foods like tempeh and tofu, get more fat from ground flax, pepitas and avocados, plus cook more of her veggies. She tends to eat 1 meal a day which probably doesn't help.

I'd say she's not eating enough, which the animal products are helping fix. She should be eating at least 2000 Cal per day IMO and I can't eat that much in one meal of standard WFPB fare.

march83 wrote:So from the cult side, I'm disappointed that she's eating animal products, but at the same time I want her to be healthy and happy, so it's tough...

We're not physically perfect and some people just can't do it. I found it harder to accept that at the beginning, but now I realise it's just a reality of life. If getting close is the best one can do, then that has to be good enough. I like helping the animals and the environment, but I don't want to make it part of my identity. TBH I'd prefer it if they didn't mark my file at the hospital "vegan". I know I get some vegans off side on these threads. They've told me so. Sorry, but I'm going to call a spade a spade regardless. I'm not taking sides on the omnivores versus vegans regarding animal rights. I'm just presenting a health message. People are free to start a vegan thread and discuss all those things. It was never the purpose here, or on the PBDT.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Rorschach » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:18 pm

Good thread this one. Have been reading it over the last few days. Resonates with me as someone who is currently hitting the scales at 100kg after getting down to 90kg a couple of years ago (after being ~110kg a couple of years before that!)
The lifestyle choice for me is mainly willpower. Yes, I could come home and cook healthy meals but it's easier not to. I eat too much crap and drink too much booze (another hobby is making my own...).
I have a little one on the way in the next 6 months, so myself and the wife have made a pledge to sort our selves out, so we're 'around to see our kids grow up' (as pointed out earlier...) and use this as an opportunity to change our lifestyle and build good habits. One of the reasons for going back to bad habits is that we weren't in the journey together and had different goals. Aligning those and having a partner to do it with makes things much easier.
This resonated a bit with me though
mikesbytes wrote:I drink too much coffee. While not high on my radar I have made a small shift of not buying a coffee as a matter of routine. One small step in the path of self improvement, many to go...

I used to drink a lot of coffee with milk. I love the stuff and honestly have an addiction, but making the switch from drinking lattes to drinking long blacks made a big difference to me when I was drinking ~4 of the things a day.
In general, I've found substitution works for me in the past, and will hopefully in the future.
Someone at my gym used to say that losing weight is 80% diet and having done that (and reverted), I'm a firm believer.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:20 pm

Hi Rorschach, congratulations on your initiatives and congrats on the baby to be. As parents we understand the need to be a role model to our children, how can we expect them to eat properly if we are not ourselves. Also most of the times when children are obese, so are the parents. I know this won't apply to you as you and your wife are on top of it.

In regards to coffee, I switched from cappuccino to long blacks about 3? years ago. Coffee at home is plunger with a dash of milk. I've seen others reduce the calorie count in coffees by going to picolates (spelling?), which I'm guessing are about 1/3 of a cappuccino.

I too believe in the 80 / 20 rule when it comes to weight loss. It should also be pointed out that there's a lot of other good reasons to have a good diet and there's a lot of other benefits to exercise. You will also tend to find those you know at the gym are generally heathier eaters than the general public.

===============

Iodine - I've pondered whether the salt in manufactured foods such as bread is made with iodised salt or salt that isn't iodised. The wholesale price of salt without iodised would be a fraction cheaper

One meal a day, I suspect we are all on the same page with this one, I won't rabbit on about why that's not a good choice. I'm assuming she is using that as a method of calorie control. Perhaps you can convince her to eat some salad at other times, almost no calories and while its not a complete meal it does at least contain some vitamins and fibre. One step in the right direction.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:35 pm

Nobody wrote:The correct level is a pretty small window and although I can't remember the video I saw (it might have been Mic. The Vegan) he said overdosing is just as likely as deficiency to cause thyroid issues.


Probably posted before.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:04 pm

Rorschach wrote:Good thread this one. Have been reading it over the last few days.

Thanks. :) I hope you find it useful. There is also the Plant Based Diet Thread and the BNA Losers Club 2018 which has a basic diet guide in the initial post.

Rorschach wrote:In general, I've found substitution works for me in the past, and will hopefully in the future.

Good point. I substitute or eliminate regularly to see if I can improve my diet.

Rorschach wrote:Someone at my gym used to say that losing weight is 80% diet and having done that (and reverted), I'm a firm believer.

Yes:
Diet, exercise, or both for weight loss?
The three main factors that influence weight/waist are genetics, diet and exercise. Being a cycling forum, most will try to increase their exercise to lose weight. The study below shows that diet is 78% and exercise is 22% of the weight loss equation. Both significant diet change and exercise together is obviously better.
The following is from a the American Institute for Cancer Research blog which summarises a recent study comparing diet and exercise in weight loss.
After 12 months, women in the exercise group lost 2.4% of their body weight; diet only reduced by 8.5% and those exercising and dieting lost 10.8% of their weight. And the more they lost, the more their biomarkers were reduced.

http://blog.aicr.org/2016/07/15/study-lose-weight-through-diet-alone-or-with-exercise-cut-cancer-promoting-substances/#more-18206

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Rorschach » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:05 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Hi Rorschach, congratulations on your initiatives and congrats on the baby to be. As parents we understand the need to be a role model to our children, how can we expect them to eat properly if we are not ourselves. Also most of the times when children are obese, so are the parents. I know this won't apply to you as you and your wife are on top of it.
Thanks mate. Thats a big motivator for us!

mikesbytes wrote:In regards to coffee, I switched from cappuccino to long blacks about 3? years ago. Coffee at home is plunger with a dash of milk. I've seen others reduce the calorie count in coffees by going to picolates (spelling?), which I'm guessing are about 1/3 of a cappuccino.
If I feel like milk, I generally drink a long macchiato, which has quite a bit less milk. Still better than what I was drinking, by increments anyway!

mikesbytes wrote:I too believe in the 80 / 20 rule when it comes to weight loss. It should also be pointed out that there's a lot of other good reasons to have a good diet and there's a lot of other benefits to exercise. You will also tend to find those you know at the gym are generally heathier eaters than the general public.
Very true, but I've also found they're very sanctimonious about it, which actually pushed me the other way. I prefer to do it without counting exactly what I'm putting in my body. My dad had a lot of success with the 5:2 diet, so I'm considering that as a way of eating a lot of what I want while still losing calories. This is mainly as I like eating bread and pasta etc., as does the wife and it's a way of keeping us sane!

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Rorschach » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:14 pm

Nobody wrote:
Diet, exercise, or both for weight loss?
The three main factors that influence weight/waist are genetics, diet and exercise. Being a cycling forum, most will try to increase their exercise to lose weight. The study below shows that diet is 78% and exercise is 22% of the weight loss equation. Both significant diet change and exercise together is obviously better.
The following is from a the American Institute for Cancer Research blog which summarises a recent study comparing diet and exercise in weight loss.
After 12 months, women in the exercise group lost 2.4% of their body weight; diet only reduced by 8.5% and those exercising and dieting lost 10.8% of their weight. And the more they lost, the more their biomarkers were reduced.

http://blog.aicr.org/2016/07/15/study-lose-weight-through-diet-alone-or-with-exercise-cut-cancer-promoting-substances/#more-18206
Thanks for that. As someone with a background in science, journal articles are something I can get around!

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:46 pm

Rorschach wrote:My dad had a lot of success with the 5:2 diet, so I'm considering that as a way of eating a lot of what I want while still losing calories. This is mainly as I like eating bread and pasta etc., as does the wife and it's a way of keeping us sane!

Is this the diet where you have 2 days a week with a very low calorie intake? If so I know someone who did it for a while, up until he went on holiday and suffered the diet out the window syndrome while on holiday. In his case weight loss wasn't required.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:48 pm

Nobody wrote:
Baalzamon wrote:What is more surprising the researchers didn't look at blood glucose. They would have seen a spike from the milk and then an even larger spike from the ice cream which is laden with sugar.
Milk converts to blood glucose, ice cream converts to blood glucose and has other bad stuff in it which sees the fats then stored.

From the article:
While none of the scientists recommend going overboard on calories and sugar either, the healthy males in the study who instead consumed a meal with the same number of calories but no fat -- three big bowls of sugar-coated flakes with no-fat milk -- did not experience the same harmful changes to their blood, red blood cells and blood vessels.

Since the low fat meal didn't appear to be a problem, can I assume you are saying the combination of fat and milk sugar, sugar etc, is bad? If that is the case, then that is how the general population of most of the western world eats these days. So in the context that applies to the majority of the population, that kind of high fat food/meal is bad for you. I trust that there's a good chance you may be able to find a study which shows a true keto diet to be beneficial for arterial health. But if so, that only really applies to about 1% of the population.

By the way, did you get your blood markers sorted out? Last I saw of it was here. My latest are:
TC 3.4, Trig 1.1, HDL 0.9, LDL 2.0, BG 4.3, hsCRP 0.5.
It's pretty clear that my LDL is always going to be high for the diet I eat. I probably tend toward hypercholesterolemia.

As an aside, the whole concept of "no-fat milk" is strange since standard milk is 48% fat by Cal. It must look like white-ish water. It's like making no-fat peanut butter.


Milk sugar is called lactose. Lactose gives milk its sweet taste and contributes approximately 40% of whole cow's milk's calories. Lactose can definitely raise your blood glucose. An enzyme called lactase splits it up into glucose and galactose.


I was wearing a Freestyle libre - continuous blood glucose monitor. Throughout one day my blood sugar was rock solid stable fairly flat line and the only "blip" in it was when I had a cold brew coffee. That cold brew was just coffee and milk. Only time I've seen my blood sugar rise with coffee cos normally I have it straight black.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Rorschach » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:02 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
Rorschach wrote:My dad had a lot of success with the 5:2 diet, so I'm considering that as a way of eating a lot of what I want while still losing calories. This is mainly as I like eating bread and pasta etc., as does the wife and it's a way of keeping us sane!

Is this the diet where you have 2 days a week with a very low calorie intake? If so I know someone who did it for a while, up until he went on holiday and suffered the diet out the window syndrome while on holiday. In his case weight loss wasn't required.
Thats the one. As long as you're disciplined, it's supposed to work pretty well as you can eat what you want most days and fast the others. There are variations for losing weight and maintaining (basically by increasing/decreasing fast days), so as long as you can stick to that it's good.
Holidays are an exception for most diets I would have thought?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:49 pm

Rorschach wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:
Rorschach wrote:My dad had a lot of success with the 5:2 diet, so I'm considering that as a way of eating a lot of what I want while still losing calories. This is mainly as I like eating bread and pasta etc., as does the wife and it's a way of keeping us sane!

Is this the diet where you have 2 days a week with a very low calorie intake? If so I know someone who did it for a while, up until he went on holiday and suffered the diet out the window syndrome while on holiday. In his case weight loss wasn't required.
Thats the one. As long as you're disciplined, it's supposed to work pretty well as you can eat what you want most days and fast the others. There are variations for losing weight and maintaining (basically by increasing/decreasing fast days), so as long as you can stick to that it's good.
Holidays are an exception for most diets I would have thought?


IIRC Michael Mosley is credited with popularising the 5:2 diet when he wrote a book and did a documentary on it.

To save some typing, below is a modified post from 2016 about his health indicators.

Nobody wrote:Michael Mosley: Do We Need Health Tests?

Although the video is not diet related, it has specifics on Michael Mosley's risk factors and the results of his CT scan. This is relative as to why Mosley shouldn't be writing diet books. If his 5:2 or FastDiet isn't fixing his own health problems, why does he think it's OK to profit from the sale of it to others?

I've added some of his numbers here from the video, as I couldn't find them on the web and this video may be gone soon.

Age: 57 (at time of test)
Total chol: 6.34 - high (3.9 - 5.5 range)
HDL:2.09
LDL: 3.68 - high (1.7 - 3.5 range) Derived using a calculator from the other numbers.
Trig: 1.23
Blood Pressure: 133/84 - pre-high blood pressure
Waist: 84cm
Height: 5'11" or 180cm (from here)
WHtR: 0.467 - higher end "OK" (Waist to height ratio, 0.5 is "Consider Action")
BMI: 24 - high end normal (overweight is 25+)

From video calculated risk of having a heart attack in next 10 years: 11.2% (So his GP says he should consider statins.)
CT coronary artery calcification scan with contrast confirms he should be on statins.

To my more recent knowledge, from his more recent documentaries, Michael Mosley is on statins.

Me:
Age: 50
Total chol: 3.4 - low (3.9 - 5.5 range)
HDL: 0.9
LDL: 2.0
Trig: 1.1
Blood pressure: 109/70 - Ideal Blood Pressure
Waist: 74.5 cm
Height: 1.72 cm
WHtR: 0.433 - lower end OK (middle of "OK" range is 0.45)
BMI: 20.9 - lower end normal

Blood glucose: 4.3
hsCRP: 0.5 - low (0.0 - 5.0 range)

No need for meds, so not on any.

To my knowledge neither Michael Mosley nor I are qualified to speak about diet professionally. But we should be living examples of the diets we promote. For health, the answer should be obvious.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:27 pm

Rorschach wrote:Holidays are an exception for most diets I would have thought?

Unfortunately completely true for me, though improved knowledge does seem to take the edge of the food crime a little and for many the elimination of food cravings prior to the holiday mean that you are less interested in the <insert that fantastic meal/drink/whatever> or you tend to have less of it.

In the case of the guy I knew on 5:2, he didn't resume after the holiday which surprised me as he talked so highly as to the success of the diet prior to the holiday.
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:01 pm

The below video be no news to regular readers of this or the PBD threads. It is aimed at those considering going on a high animal product low-carb or keto diet.
I note a mistake in the video. Study #3, the "Eco-Atkins" diet allowed the higher carb control to have low fat animal products. So not a true comparison study and therefore not proof that a low-carb WFPB diet is better than a regular PWPB diet for lowering cholesterol.
The control, high-carbohydrate lacto-ovo vegetarian diet (58% carbohydrate, 16% protein and 25% fat) emphasised whole wheat cereals and cereal fibre, as well as low-fat or skim milk dairy products and liquid egg substitute to reduce saturated fat and cholesterol intakes.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3918974/


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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:02 pm

The article below is mainly about poor and/or deceptive study design. The message being, don't rely on a single study for making important decisions like diet, but a body of evidence.
Controversy arises over the Mediterranean Diet

As for the Mediterranean diet in the form that as it's currently known, other studies have shown that fruit, veg and nuts add to health, while the fish, wine and olive oil detracts. But the overall effect is still beneficial compared with the average western diet.

Like everything in the diet game, how healthy a particular food or diet is mainly matters to what it's being compared to. And for what purpose. For the purpose of improving heart disease risk (the biggest killer) the Mediterranean diet is said to lower risk by 70%, while a low fat WFPB diet lowers risk by 99%.

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